urbanSTL

stlgasm wrote:

beer city wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

The state blunders a lot but there was a reason these were cut

Variety - The trade mag of the industry - ran a great piece last year about USC study on how film subsidies are losers for states - The problem is the big money and infrastructure that support the movie industry stays in Hollywood - Basically you get a small, and temporary bump in wages for local staff - Better to invest in permanent jobs
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/film-t ... 201840189/

Tell that to Atlanta.

There are plenty of intangible benefits of a film/tv industry that can't be deduced to dollars alone. How about the buzz factor, visibility, network-building and general boost in self-esteem/civic confidence?

No worries. St. Louis is ready for its close-up on the upcoming season of The First 48!

stlgasm wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

beer city wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

The state blunders a lot but there was a reason these were cut

Variety - The trade mag of the industry - ran a great piece last year about USC study on how film subsidies are losers for states - The problem is the big money and infrastructure that support the movie industry stays in Hollywood - Basically you get a small, and temporary bump in wages for local staff - Better to invest in permanent jobs
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/film-t ... 201840189/

Tell that to Atlanta.

There are plenty of intangible benefits of a film/tv industry that can't be deduced to dollars alone. How about the buzz factor, visibility, network-building and general boost in self-esteem/civic confidence?

Atlanta has a film industry? I wasn't aware of it. Not that I dive deep into film but I can't remember anything I have seen on Tv/movie lately that was in Atlanta

jshank83 wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

stlgasm wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

beer city wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

The state blunders a lot but there was a reason these were cut

Variety - The trade mag of the industry - ran a great piece last year about USC study on how film subsidies are losers for states - The problem is the big money and infrastructure that support the movie industry stays in Hollywood - Basically you get a small, and temporary bump in wages for local staff - Better to invest in permanent jobs
http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/film-t ... 201840189/

Tell that to Atlanta.

There are plenty of intangible benefits of a film/tv industry that can't be deduced to dollars alone. How about the buzz factor, visibility, network-building and general boost in self-esteem/civic confidence?

Atlanta has a film industry? I wasn't aware of it. Not that I dive deep into film but I can't remember anything I have seen on Tv/movie lately that was in Atlanta

Atlanta and really all of Georgia has quite a strong industry. Along with Louisiana/New Orleans it is really the main alternative to CA. Not sure about how many are actually set there though.

gopherlou wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

jshank83 wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

stlgasm wrote: ↑

May 09, 2017

Tell that to Atlanta.

There are plenty of intangible benefits of a film/tv industry that can't be deduced to dollars alone. How about the buzz factor, visibility, network-building and general boost in self-esteem/civic confidence?

Atlanta has a film industry? I wasn't aware of it. Not that I dive deep into film but I can't remember anything I have seen on Tv/movie lately that was in Atlanta

Atlanta and really all of Georgia has quite a strong industry. Along with Louisiana/New Orleans it is really the main alternative to CA. Not sure about how many are actually set there though.

Interesting. I had no clue. I knew some shows/movies have filmed out in New Mexico but that was about it.

They are one of the big dogs now. In terms of Television production they outranked New York as of 2013. (With 36 active productions to New York's 30.) Archer and The Walking Dead might be the two most famous contemporary productions, but the list includes all manner of stuff, including Alton Brown's Good Eats. They not only have locations, but also studio capacity and a sizable pool of middling to largish local production companies. While one can say that the major dollars stay in California, other states have become enough of a threat the California has had to respond in kind with incentives of its own.

Here's a few informative hits:

http://www.georgia.org/industries/enter ... roduction/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_indu ... .S._state)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... in_Atlanta

I saw a comment on another thread that they didn't think Indianapolis was a peer city for STL... I think it's a peer metro but agree when you get to the city level it's highly problematic. I know it pretty well and lived downtown back in the day and while it has some good things going for it it just is a really different place from Saint Louis City; low-density, multiple school districts, etc. etc.

Overall, I don't think it really is a good peer to model after in terms of this merger discussion.

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jun 22, 2017

Overall, I don't think it really is a good peer to model after in terms of this merger discussion.

Any thoughts on what might be? Louisville is the only other metro I can recall (off the top of my head) that merged in recent years.

^ I don't really know what would be a good model in terms of merger for Saint Louis, a legacy city that is pretty different from the three that the Better Together folks point to... Indy, Nashville and Louisville. Indy's historical growth, and especially socio-economic outcomes, are not that good and I think there's better places to look to in terms of the kind of place we would wish to be. I don't know as much about Louisville and Nashville so I'm trying to become a little more familiar.

Anyway, I'm not saying merger here would be a bad thing and it should be studied, but we have to be aware of the reality that merger may be more hype than anything else. Personally, I'd recommend also looking at places like the Twin Cities for how we can grow via better regional planning and transit investments, etc. (although the region still has to improve on outcomes for minorities).

btw, Indy's unigov creation happened all the way back in 1970 so its coming up on 50 years already. I think Nashville was in the 60's..

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jun 23, 2017

^ I don't really know what would be a good model in terms of merger for Saint Louis, a legacy city that is pretty different from the three that the Better Together folks point to... Indy, Nashville and Louisville. Indy's historical growth, and especially socio-economic outcomes, are not that good and I think there's better places to look to in terms of the kind of place we would wish to be. I don't know as much about Louisville and Nashville so I'm trying to become a little more familiar.

Anyway, I'm not saying merger here would be a bad thing and it should be studied, but we have to be aware of the reality that merger may be more hype than anything else. Personally, I'd recommend also looking at places like the Twin Cities for how we can grow via better regional planning and transit investments, etc. (although the region still has to improve on outcomes for minorities).

btw, Indy's unigov creation happened all the way back in 1970 so its coming up on 50 years already. I think Nashville was in the 60's..

The Twin Cities has worse outcomes for Afro-Americans than St. Louis, but that is largely due to the relatively small population of traditional Afro-American communities. Basically St. Louis has a much larger and established black middle class than Minneapolis. The place has largely benefited from still being overwhelmingly white and middle class when St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland were going through the ringer of white flight, urban disinvestment, increased poverty etc. They also adopted revenue sharing early on, so the central city was never financially starved and municipalities were not competing against each other. They also have an overarching regional entity that is responsible for things like land use and transportation planning, economic development etc.

Here's the population for Marion County (slightly larger population than Indy as there are a few independent cities still) since unigov merger in 1970.

1970 792,299 13.6%
1980 765,233 −3.4%
1990 797,159 4.2%
2000 860,454 7.9%
2010 903,393 5.0%
Est. 2016 941,229 [8] 4.2%

Not great for a county that hosts the state capitol and even today has quite a bit of easy greenfields to consume.

Also, a great thing about Indiana is that it has a township form of government, which the Census tracks. Center Township is the core of Indy including downtown, and contains the bulk of the Indianapolis Public Schools system. Here is its population trend since its peak in 1950.

1950 337,211 7.2%
1960 333,351 −1.1%
1970 273,634 −17.9%
1980 208,624 −23.8%
1990 182,140 −12.7%
2000 167,055 −8.3%
2010 142,787 −14.5%
Est. 2015 147,818 3.5%

So it has lost over half of its population since its 1950 peak; also, notice it lost a greater percentage of people last decade than the City of Saint Louis. We also have about 1,500 more people per square mile. Like STL, it once again is growing in the greater downtown-eds/meds area but Indy/Marion County's growth primarily is occurring on the edges of the County with different school systems than the core center.

I wonder is our population has gone up since the 2010 Census? Maybe they could be wrong that it went down. I see more growth in South and Central St. Louis City.


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^ it's possible the census estimates are off some but I suspect they're generally on target... central corridor growth probably isn't making up for north city loss and south city probably isn't in a re-growth period quite yet. Maybe by 2020 we'll be adding some on an annual basis but likely not enough to make up for losses earlier in the decade. Getting some of those key proposed projects throughout the city underway would sure help though..

“State budget cuts are putting stress on public universities, some of which are resorting to renting out empty dorm rooms to earn cash amid tight financial circumstances. The University of Missouri, one of the biggest football schools in the state, will rent out dorms this fall for visitors who want to stay to see the team play. The starting rate for a ‘furnished two-bedroom suite with four single beds’ is $120 per night plus tax, according to the school’s website. The plea for extra cash at the University of Missouri comes amid declining enrollment and a decrease in finances.”
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/201 ... rofit.html

While we're measuring things...

Kansas City Streetcar
Owner City of Kansas City, Missouri
Number of stations 10
Daily ridership 6,800

Operation
Began operation May 6, 2016
Operator(s) Kansas City Streetcar Authority
Character Street running
Number of vehicles 4 CAF Urbos 3 model 100

Technical
System length 2.2 mi (3.5 km)
Track gauge 4 ft 8 1/2 in (1,435 mm) standard gauge
Electrification 750 V overhead line
capacity of cars 150
cost $100,000,000.00
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Loop Trolley
Stations 10

Operation
Planned opening Late summer 2017
Owner Loop Trolley Transportation Development District
Operator(s) Loop Trolley Company

Technical
Line length 2.2 mi (3.5 km)
Track gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 1/2 in) standard gauge
Electrification 600 V DC
capacity of Melbourne cars 100
capacity of Brill cars 80
cost $50,000,000.00

hebeters2 wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2017

“State budget cuts are putting stress on public universities, some of which are resorting to renting out empty dorm rooms to earn cash amid tight financial circumstances. The University of Missouri, one of the biggest football schools in the state, will rent out dorms this fall for visitors who want to stay to see the team play. The starting rate for a ‘furnished two-bedroom suite with four single beds’ is $120 per night plus tax, according to the school’s website. The plea for extra cash at the University of Missouri comes amid declining enrollment and a decrease in finances.”
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/201 ... rofit.html

hebeters will you PLEASE try to put things in the appropriate places? what the hell does this have to do with measuring St. Louis against other cities?

^^ Sorry, didn't follow the KC line's development. I just did some quick Googling to see if there were over budget issues and it doesn't appear so. (One article here). So at half the price did we get a steal of a deal for the Loop Trolley?

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2017

^^ Sorry, didn't follow the KC line's development. I just did some quick Googling to see if there were over budget issues and it doesn't appear so. (One article here). So at half the price did we get a steal of a deal for the Loop Trolley?

I would make that case, yes. Of course, it's like, hey, we got a hundred year old Ford Model T for half the cost of a 2017 Honda Accord! Still, there it is at half the cost.

danke0 wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2017

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2017

^^ Sorry, didn't follow the KC line's development. I just did some quick Googling to see if there were over budget issues and it doesn't appear so. (One article here). So at half the price did we get a steal of a deal for the Loop Trolley?

I would make that case, yes. Of course, it's like, hey, we got a hundred year old Ford Model T for half the cost of a 2017 Honda Accord! Still, there it is at half the cost.

I'm not actually sure that's a bad deal if we're talking about a Model T that passes modern safety and emissions tests and actually looks decent. (Of course, I haven't priced a Model T lately.) Each has its place. I love my wife's '04 Prius. But . . . I really like my 1990 Miata too. And what's more, they're both probably worth about the same amount, more or less. In the ballpark, anyway. Like the streetcars one is more practical and the other is more fun, but they'll both get you there. And the streetcars are at least a little closer in capacity.

But back to streetcars. I'd looked at them and figured out they were darn near exactly the same length. I didn't realize the prices were so different. And I never would have guessed the Loop version came out cheaper. Of course, I don't know that I'd expect the ridership numbers to make the per person costs come out the same way, but we shall see. Fun comparison, anyway.

Redlining Never Went Away
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... -went-away

stlgasm wrote: ↑

Jul 22, 2017

Man, what would it take to get some press like THIS for St. Louis:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/s ... e=Homepage

I feel like there are so many parallels between Pittsburgh and St. Louis (our exorbitant crime rate not withstanding). No doubt this positive coverage is powerful wind for Pittsburgh's sails. Another glaring reminder that St. Louis' self-described "tech boom" is actually just keeping pace with every other city.

Interesting article. I'd say St. Louis' tech scene is doing a little better than just keeping up, maybe not a lot better, but at least keeping up. The Pittsburgh comparison is a little unfair in my opinion because as the article states: "Where the tech world is going — self-driving cars; personal A.I. concierges; robot workers — is where Carnegie Mellon’s faculty and students have been for decades".

This is very true. And having one of the top comp-sci/robotics institutions in the country (world?) can't just happen overnight no matter how hard you try. Carnegie Mellon is definitely top shelf.

Wash U's comp-sci program is definitely held in good regard, maybe second in the state only to Rolla, but it's just not on the same level as Carnegie Mellon. St. Louis, and the vast majority of other cities, just don't have comparable institutions. This isn't a knock against St. Louis or other cities, hey, there can only be one #1, right?

I do think St. Louis should be proud of what it has done the last 5+ years or so with tech though, in particular T-Rex. I consistently hear nothing but good things coming out of it. Expanding beyond software, etc, of course Cortex is something to be very proud of.

I don't have an *great* handle on what exactly is going on in all other cities, but my general feeling (and it seems others I talk to) is that St. Louis is at least keeping up.

What I found hopeful in this article was the the cost of living / livability aspect. I have family who live in San Francisco proper. I'm surprised how expensive and gentrified its become. I'm no expert on the city, but it feels starkly less organic and diversified as it did maybe 10-20 years ago. To put it more bluntly - it feels more boring than it used to.

I'm very interested in the coming years to see if the younger generations start to feel this way too and start to become disillusioned with paying a premium for boring when organic and real can be had at such a discount.

stlgasm wrote:Man, what would it take to get some press like THIS for St. Louis:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/s ... e=Homepage

I feel like there are so many parallels between Pittsburgh and St. Louis (our exorbitant crime rate not withstanding). No doubt this positive coverage is powerful wind for Pittsburgh's sails. Another glaring reminder that St. Louis' self-described "tech boom" is actually just keeping pace with every other city.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. I'm pretty sure it's been discussed before in this forum that St. Louis is more so seeing a bio-science ag-tech boom. Pittsburgh still has a lot of problems and so do we. The reason they're getting publicity unfortunately is due to their proximity to the coast. To brag a bit on St. Louis, Pittsburgh still is experiencing a metro area wide population decline bigger than that in the St. Louis area, and the "tech boom" in Pittsburgh is actually not as explosive as conveyed in the Times article.

However to add, I'm not trying to say St. Louis
doesn't have its problems. I just think our St Louis inferiority complex just really blurs out our own accomplishments. The startup scene in St. Louis is something extraordinary. Also, a bunch of STL startups and the STL Partnership are heading to NYC and San Francisco this fall to give a major presentation to various startup conferences.


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stlgasm wrote: Man, what would it take to get some press like THIS for St. Louis:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/s ... e=Homepage

I feel like there are so many parallels between Pittsburgh and St. Louis (our exorbitant crime rate not withstanding). No doubt this positive coverage is powerful wind for Pittsburgh's sails. Another glaring reminder that St. Louis' self-described "tech boom" is actually just keeping pace with every other city.

I agree there are a lot of similarities but think Pittsburgh city has the potential to really pop in the coming years while it'll be harder for us to do so. The Pittsburgh region has a bit of a demographic problem with a high median age and with more births than deaths which makes strong growth difficult, but the city itself has a ton load of twenty-somethings (25% of population in latest estimates v. 18% for STL) and if these young yinzers settle down after having some sexytime I think it can see something similar to Minneapolis, which essentially had a static population in the naughts before reaching that next level of real growth during this one. Their high utilization of public transit and progress on expanding it also bode well for their future

What's holding us back in contrast is our high level of concentrated poverty, which is continuing to deplete a good chunk of our city. Although we're seeing some similar dynamics with Pittsburgh on educated young people coming in, etc., we have more serious challenges as well and seemingly less capacity to tackle them.