The State of Downtown

roger wyoming II · PostDec 19, 2014#8262014-12-19T19:58+00:00

wabash wrote: Cincy opened a third downtown Dunkin about a year ago. They have two basically across the street from each other (in the Fifth Third Tower and in the Westin Hotel complex), and one that opened near their courthouse/government center.

I know I've written this before, but a Dunkin here, is a no brainer. Plus, Dominium is even planning on that space being a cafe (although a Dunkin would probably be smaller with less seating).

For whatever reason, I wasn't thinking of that café spot as going to a national chain and was thinking more of someone operating it for Webster (but open to the public) but there really isn't any reason for that thought. Yes, let's make the most of this attractive spot.

btw, downtown Cleveland has long had a Dunkin Donuts (and full CVS) and I see also now has a Chipotle in a storefront near Public Square. I gotta believe we'll be getting a drug store and other nationals soon.

debaliviere · PostDec 19, 2014#8272014-12-19T20:48+00:00

kinger wrote:
It's strange to me that that would be a deterrent. You'd think most prospective tenants would just go along with it, knowing that nothing is going to happen there any time in the foreseeable future.
As a tenant, it's tough to justify investing six figures to build out a space if they can yank the rug out from under you 6 months into your lease. Many tenants even finance their buildout based on the lease term (10yrs typically) and lenders are not going to loan with that clause in there.

That certainly makes sense, although I guess Friday's, Caleco's, Hooter's, Hardee's and Bread Co. don't seem to mind it.

Still, maybe the garage owners could use a little encouragement to drop that language from their leases.

TheNewSaintLouis · PostDec 19, 2014#8282014-12-19T23:56+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:
TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I'm thinking Peabody energy should purchase the AT&T building and make it it's new world hq once their lease is up at the gateway one building. I think the At&T building will give Peabody much more visibility not only too St.Louisan's but out of town folks as well..
Just a thought here also i wouldn't mind seeing the old Keiner garage torn down and replace with a brand new mix use signature tower that alone would give our skyline much more definition .. oh well all of it is pipe dreams lol
Dude Peabody is a mess financially. They aren't purchasing anything soon.

Peabody Energy Moving into At&T tower is all a dream and who knows things can vastly improve even if things are foggy for them. I don't see why our downtown can't support a Dunkin Tim Hortons Walgreens CVS possibly a mini department store in the future. Also i wouldn't mind seeing a wing stop or buffalo wild wings in downtown. I definitely think that if we do happen to get a new Highrise that it should be iconic something that will definitely add to our skyline I'm not saying a 700 footer but something probably in the range of 450-630 ft..

PostDec 20, 2014#8292014-12-20T00:21+00:00

And of course theres many other things that i'd love to see downtown. Certain things attract certain people and its all about what those things are that attract people to those certain things. Downtown needs some things that are fresh and unique however I'm very open to having chain stores downtown as well. Im all about get things that will attract people downtown and i believe more people from the metro east south and north county even Jefferson county would patronize downtown than folks that are west of 270.

True_dope · PostDec 20, 2014#8302014-12-20T03:04+00:00

What is with people in west county not wanting to go downtown and are even scared to go? I experienced this a lot living in west county.

downtown2007 · PostDec 20, 2014#8312014-12-20T03:45+00:00

^ I experience it with almost anyone that lives west of 270.

i,Iive,to,draw · PostDec 20, 2014#8322014-12-20T04:27+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:^ I experience it with almost anyone that lives west of 270.

Why are people west of 270 like that? Do most other regions have huge swaths of people scared to go their downtowns???

terence d · PostDec 20, 2014#8332014-12-20T19:38+00:00

^Natural human hysteria. ...And, okay, stories like these aren't helping either: Man found burned inside portable toilet near downtown St. Louis

jsbru · PostDec 20, 2014#8342014-12-20T23:29+00:00

I have to say, I like what U-Haul is doing to the globe drug building. I had little hope for that place when I lived here previously, with broken windows and weeds growing on the roof. I like how they're redoing the windows closet to the freeway first, so it doesn't look so bad.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 20, 2014#8352014-12-20T23:47+00:00

^ Some of it has resulted from unfortunate demo of potential rehabs like Powell Square and Cupples 7, but I think for the average person downtown's freeway-scape is a lot less blighted. And a lot of West Countians still probably are wondering what those blue panels are going up off Vandeventer.

TheNewSaintLouis · PostDec 21, 2014#8362014-12-21T01:30+00:00

I think with West Co its a black thing! They literally think every black person is out to get them or create harm and thats completely not true. I honestly believe some of the most humble and friendliest people are blacks. I have a few friends that live out in Ballwin and Chesterfield and they ask me if i still work downtown. I tell them yup and I'm still alive

. I can never convince them to come visit downtown they literally believe its too dangerous too black and nothing to do there. The truth is they are missing out out some good to great stuff thats happening..

Greatest St. Louis · PostDec 21, 2014#8372014-12-21T14:26+00:00

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... baece.html

Bernie Miklasz wrote:... I can add something else: the proposed stadium will be one part of a major development of the northern St. Louis riverfront, which is loaded with mostly unoccupied buildings.

Bernie Miklaz wrote:Nixon reiterated that plan must be big on development. He isn’t interested in a stadium-only concept. And he is confident that Peacock and Blitz will present something more sweeping and substantial in scope.

“We’re working with the right people to make sure that there’s not only a benefit to sports fans, but much more importantly an economic benefit to the region, both in the short run and long run,” Nixon said. “And this assists in the continued transformation of the area downtown. And continues to add value to the region and our state.

“What we’re looking at here is solid economic development to keep the Rams here. While you want to have the basic underlying piece of this make sure that you’re an NFL city. What that means for us is — we want to keep the Rams. But there’s much more to it than that.”

southsidepride · PostDec 21, 2014#8382014-12-21T19:38+00:00

I don't necessarily believe the fear of blacks is the main reason folks west of 270 are so uninterested in going downtown.

Chesterfield isn't exactly the whitest part of the metro area.

In my experience it's just people who are fine with what they have out there and see no need for anything else.

A lot of them really do think "the Valley" is the center of the metro area.

Ebsy · PostDec 21, 2014#8392014-12-21T21:35+00:00

It's 86.5% White and 8.6% Asian, which is considered the favorite minority by most upper middle class white people. That leaves 0.2% African American. Essentially, there are almost no black people in Chesterfield.

stlien · PostDec 22, 2014#8402014-12-22T03:57+00:00

southsidepride wrote: In my experience it's just people who are fine with what they have out there and see no need for anything else.

A lot of them really do think "the Valley" is the center of the metro area.

You're exaggerating. They know Downtown is the center of the metro area. It's just, they only really care to go during the Cardinals season.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 22, 2014#8412014-12-22T17:50+00:00

jsbru wrote:I have to say, I like what U-Haul is doing to the globe drug building. I had little hope for that place when I lived here previously, with broken windows and weeds growing on the roof. I like how they're redoing the windows closet to the freeway first, so it doesn't look so bad.

wow... that building sure screams U-Haul now!

PostDec 22, 2014#8422014-12-22T18:00+00:00

kinger wrote:The owner of those garages requires all new leases (for retail space) to have a clause that the tenant can be relocated/terminated in the event the ownership wants to redevelop the property. They will not bend on it, either, which is a big reason there are several vacancies in an otherwise great retail location. ...Gets you thinking.

Steve P. has a good article up on the old garage on Tucker undergoing an extensive renovation.... I wasn't sure what exactly was going on there and if Pappa John's and the Chinese place were still open; they aren't.

http://www.urbanreviewstl.com/2014/12/p ... jobs-lost/

If the Keiner garages similarly need extensive renovation at some point I think that would make a mixed-use redevelopment more likely. They could do one garage first and then the second. I'd love to see it happen! Also, does anyone remember details on what I think was the Downtown Now plan to put some parking under the Mall?

TheNewSaintLouis · PostDec 22, 2014#8432014-12-22T23:48+00:00

I would love to see Washingtion Ave become the epicenter of downtown entertainment and i think theres a decent potential for that to happen if the city gets its cards right. I wouldn't mind seeing Wash Ave sort of like Beale St However i believe Wash Ave has a high possibility of being more of a impactful success than what we may think. I completely know Wash Ave has a high capability of being one of Americans most iconic downtown streets if done right and way more iconic than Beale St and a few others. Sometimes i feel like St.Louis is scared to be successful so they just leave things as is...

The foundation is already there

I know wishful thinking

roger wyoming II · PostDec 23, 2014#8442014-12-23T02:22+00:00

Picking up on the Aloft discussion, the one in Detroit opened up last week in this mixed-use rehab:

(I think that is streetcar track being laid as well in that pic)

I've been thinking Union Trust for a mixed-use hotel/residential historic rehab, but it also came to mind that the Chemical might be a candidate as well. Of course I wouldn't mind sleek new construction either... here is the Cleveland Aloft (foreground, with new office tower in back as part of the East Flats project)

I wonder if something like this could fit into the Drury site in the Landing if they wanted another hotel (more accessible to the new stadium!)... the Cleveland site is similarly adjacent to elevated lanes.

(RTA stop under Detroit Shoreway next to Flats East project)

Greatest St. Louis · PostDec 23, 2014#8452014-12-23T16:27+00:00

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I would love to see Washingtion Ave become the epicenter of downtown entertainment and i think theres a decent potential for that to happen if the city gets its cards right. I wouldn't mind seeing Wash Ave sort of like Beale St However i believe Wash Ave has a high possibility of being more of a impactful success than what we may think. I completely know Wash Ave has a high capability of being one of Americans most iconic downtown streets if done right and way more iconic than Beale St and a few others. Sometimes i feel like St.Louis is scared to be successful so they just leave things as is...

The foundation is already there

I know wishful thinking

Wash Ave has been absolutely killed by BPV. I'd say it's lost about 1/3 to 1/2 of its vitality, foot traffic and business since that taxpayer-funded monstrosity opened up next to Busch Stadium.

hebeters2 · PostDec 23, 2014#8462014-12-23T17:06+00:00

City Approves First Robert A.M. Stern Tower for Chicago
http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2014 ... rville.php

debaliviere · PostDec 23, 2014#8472014-12-23T18:40+00:00

It appears that Crazy Bowls & Wraps is going in next to the movie theater at the MX!

roger wyoming II · PostDec 23, 2014#8482014-12-23T18:46+00:00

^ that's cool.... but now I' confused where the Mediterranean place will go. Or maybe one of them will be taking the vacated Collective spot?

wabash · PostDec 23, 2014#8492014-12-23T19:03+00:00

hebeters2 wrote:City Approves First Robert A.M. Stern Tower for Chicago

Completely conservative, inoffensive design, as can be expected from A.M. Stern. This building is right next to the 500 LSD Tower that Montgomery is planning on cloning in Clayton:

jcity · PostDec 23, 2014#8502014-12-23T23:12+00:00

What hurt wash ave was the rougher crowds that came from east St. Louis when those clubs closed earlier than downtowns bars, etc. I was out one night maybe two years ago and it was borderline scary. Hate to say that and I'll definitely get back down to dubliner, hair of the dog, etc, but that's what killed off a lot of my friends from going down. Also, other new spots have popped up like wheelhouse. Trust me, I'd bet on wash Ave long term over BPV.
Larry Rice needs to go so that area can get further developed, along with Washington west of 14th. He operates yesteryears shelter, not one with good programs that actually help people get on track. It's essentially a flop house that attracts everyone downtown then dumps them back out during the day. If downtown was NYC I'd be more forgiving for such a shelter, but since I think we need to help downtown develop far more than it's current state, I think this is just a hinderance to that happening.

The State of Downtown

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