The two times I've gone to Docket they've been closed.
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What time of day?moorlander wrote:The two times I've gone to Docket they've been closed.
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If we do get an Aloft hotel i think these are the places it might go. Lecledes Landing BPV Cortex or maybe Jefferson arms building would make a spectacular hotel being the location where it is theres not really any large hotels in and around that area of downtown.
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Happy hour. Tried to go once before a Blues game and tried again before the WSP show at Peabody. I know at one time they were open late because my wife went there before the Billy Joel concert.downtown2007 wrote:What time of day?moorlander wrote:The two times I've gone to Docket they've been closed.
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I think all of those sites would be suitable for a boutique hotel.... the Jefferson Arms with its history and killer ballroom would make for a dandy of a mixed-use residential/boutique hotel/commercial site. If Peabody is still looking, I imagine they have their eye on it as well but it may be too big if they're looking for just a single-use.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:If we do get an Aloft hotel i think these are the places it might go. Lecledes Landing BPV Cortex or maybe Jefferson arms building would make a spectacular hotel being the location where it is theres not really any large hotels in and around that area of downtown.
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Only open 9-5 now I believe.moorlander wrote:Happy hour. Tried to go once before a Blues game and tried again before the WSP show at Peabody. I know at one time they were open late because my wife went there before the Billy Joel concert.downtown2007 wrote:What time of day?moorlander wrote:The two times I've gone to Docket they've been closed.
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Well that's dumb. It's very convenient for events at Peabody and Scottrade. You'd think there would be a market for them.
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I'm thinking Peabody energy should purchase the AT&T building and make it it's new world hq once their lease is up at the gateway one building. I think the At&T building will give Peabody much more visibility not only too St.Louisan's but out of town folks as well..
Just a thought here also i wouldn't mind seeing the old Keiner garage torn down and replace with a brand new mix use signature tower that alone would give our skyline much more definition .. oh well all of it is pipe dreams lol
Just a thought here also i wouldn't mind seeing the old Keiner garage torn down and replace with a brand new mix use signature tower that alone would give our skyline much more definition .. oh well all of it is pipe dreams lol
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Dude Peabody is a mess financially. They aren't purchasing anything soon.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I'm thinking Peabody energy should purchase the AT&T building and make it it's new world hq once their lease is up at the gateway one building. I think the At&T building will give Peabody much more visibility not only too St.Louisan's but out of town folks as well..
Just a thought here also i wouldn't mind seeing the old Keiner garage torn down and replace with a brand new mix use signature tower that alone would give our skyline much more definition .. oh well all of it is pipe dreams lol
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Those suckers are now 50 years old! (One built in '64 and one in '66) I'd love a tear-down of those monsters.... even a re-do to make them more mixe-use and relate to the Archscape better.TheNewSaintLouis wrote: Just a thought here also i wouldn't mind seeing the old Keiner garage torn down and replace with a brand new mix use signature tower that alone would give our skyline much more definition .. oh well all of it is pipe dreams lol
Anyone know the life expectancy of such garage structures?
If I recall, weren't the Kiener garages built as pedestals with the intent of adding a tower at some later point? I know this is pie-in-the-sky but I'd love to see them actually used for their intended purpose of supporting a tower, even if it's a shorter one. As part of the process perhaps the garage could be reclad as something more modern/complimentory of whatever'd been built on top of it.
It won't happen, but I can dream.
-RBB
It won't happen, but I can dream.
-RBB
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Yeah, I've always heard the same thing about the garages being designed to serve as the base for larger structures.rbb wrote:If I recall, weren't the Kiener garages built as pedestals with the intent of adding a tower at some later point? I know this is pie-in-the-sky but I'd love to see them actually used for their intended purpose of supporting a tower, even if it's a shorter one. As part of the process perhaps the garage could be reclad as something more modern/complimentory of whatever'd been built on top of it.
It won't happen, but I can dream.
-RBB
If Kiener Plaza is going to be redeveloped, it would make so much sense to do SOMETHING to spruce up those garages. Maybe hold a design competition and choose the best idea.
The owner of those garages requires all new leases (for retail space) to have a clause that the tenant can be relocated/terminated in the event the ownership wants to redevelop the property. They will not bend on it, either, which is a big reason there are several vacancies in an otherwise great retail location. ...Gets you thinking.
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It's strange to me that that would be a deterrent. You'd think most prospective tenants would just go along with it, knowing that nothing is going to happen there any time in the foreseeable future.kinger wrote:The owner of those garages requires all new leases (for retail space) to have a clause that the tenant can be relocated/terminated in the event the ownership wants to redevelop the property. They will not bend on it, either, which is a big reason there are several vacancies in an otherwise great retail location. ...Gets you thinking.
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I'd love for a Qdoba and a Steak N Shake to open in one of those spaces.
As a tenant, it's tough to justify investing six figures to build out a space if they can yank the rug out from under you 6 months into your lease. Many tenants even finance their buildout based on the lease term (10yrs typically) and lenders are not going to loan with that clause in there.It's strange to me that that would be a deterrent. You'd think most prospective tenants would just go along with it, knowing that nothing is going to happen there any time in the foreseeable future.
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^ plus with all the available retail properties elsewhere, most lookers will just move on.
thanks much for the info, kinger; it gives me hope that something eventually could get done. btw, the Gateway Mall has been exposed to another crappy garage with the CityView Apartments.... aargh.
thanks much for the info, kinger; it gives me hope that something eventually could get done. btw, the Gateway Mall has been exposed to another crappy garage with the CityView Apartments.... aargh.
Is there such a thing as a downtown Steak N Shake elsewhere? As for Qdoba, they retrenched their store numbers recently so I don't see them coming downtown anytime soon. I suspect we'll see a Tim Hortons (or Dunkin Donuts) somewhere downtown before too long, although probably not in one of the those spaces with the Bread Co. being there.downtown2007 wrote:I'd love for a Qdoba and a Steak N Shake to open in one of those spaces.
What other nationals are in expansion mode in the Saint Louis region?
I know there's a Steak n Shake in downtown Indianapolis.roger wyoming II wrote:Is there such a thing as a downtown Steak N Shake elsewhere? As for Qdoba, they retrenched their store numbers recently so I don't see them coming downtown anytime soon. I suspect we'll see a Tim Hortons (or Dunkin Donuts) somewhere downtown before too long, although probably not in one of the those spaces with the Bread Co. being there.downtown2007 wrote:I'd love for a Qdoba and a Steak N Shake to open in one of those spaces.
What other nationals are in expansion mode in the Saint Louis region?
You'd think Qdoba or Chipotle would come all the way downtown as their midtown locations can get stupidly busy at lunch. Like so long you turn around and walk out once you see the line.
Based upon some Twitter messages it seems like Tim Hortons is thinking real hard about downtown.
Can you share those twitter messages?dweebe wrote:Based upon some Twitter messages it seems like Tim Hortons is thinking real hard about downtown.
I've been poking and prodding Qdoba and Chipotle for years about Downtown and can't get them to budge. Dunkin is still hung up on the drive through thing... My understanding is they will back down from that "requirement" as they build comfort in a market.
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Always amazed at the apathy by some national chains when it comes to downtown.
Here is Steak N Shake in downtown Indy
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Here is Steak N Shake in downtown Indy
How the hell is Dunkin hung up on a drive through for a downtown store? Every major city in America has a Starbucks or Dunkin downtown without a drive through, many with multiple locations in that downtown. That seems to be a very St. Louis-like problem.kinger wrote:I've been poking and prodding Qdoba and Chipotle for years about Downtown and can't get them to budge. Dunkin is still hung up on the drive through thing... My understanding is they will back down from that "requirement: as they build comfort in a market.
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^ If we continue the Saint Louis Story, watch Tucker north of Washington become a destination for drive-through "downtown" locations.
New York also has a downtown-type Steak n Shake. Although, it's in Times Square (not Downtown).
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Cincy opened a third downtown Dunkin about a year ago. They have two basically across the street from each other (in the Fifth Third Tower and in the Westin Hotel complex), and one that opened near their courthouse/government center.
I know I've written this before, but a Dunkin here, is a no brainer. Plus, Dominium is even planning on that space being a cafe (although a Dunkin would probably be smaller with less seating).
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Cincy opened a third downtown Dunkin about a year ago. They have two basically across the street from each other (in the Fifth Third Tower and in the Westin Hotel complex), and one that opened near their courthouse/government center.
I know I've written this before, but a Dunkin here, is a no brainer. Plus, Dominium is even planning on that space being a cafe (although a Dunkin would probably be smaller with less seating).
