urbanSTL

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

3:21 PM - Mar 29

I think I overestimated this project. I thought we were cutting down more useless lanes and widening sidewalks for plantings and generally sprucing it up

Tucker needed serious narrowing and beautification. I hope we didn’t do a ribbon cutting just for repaving and the bike lane


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Me too which is why I was skeptical there was no final design I could find anywhere.  Sounds like years of bait and switch which is not atypical and also overly conservative.  This town is afraid to say yes to anything, and does not consider that trying something and failing, and redoing something, is a possibility.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

3:21 PM - Mar 29

I think I overestimated this project. I thought we were cutting down more useless lanes and widening sidewalks for plantings and generally sprucing it up

Tucker needed serious narrowing and beautification. I hope we didn’t do a ribbon cutting just for repaving and the bike lane


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North bound will have the same amount of lanes and South bound will have 2

Is there any world where we need a 4 lane + turn lanes northbound Tucker in 2026 Downtown StL?

I was walking down Tucker with an out of towner a couple years ago and they commented on how unbelievably wide the road is. It is not even a busy street nowadays and it just creates dangerous driving and a sense of emptiness

We could take half of Tucker and make it an extension of the brickline greenway and traffic would still be fine. Could do light rail or BRT.

Finally, it is very tree and planter barren. Expand those sidewalks and get some nice trees on them


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delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

5:11 PM - Mar 29

Is there any world where we need a 4 lane + turn lanes northbound Tucker in 2026 Downtown StL?

I was walking down Tucker with an out of towner a couple years ago and they commented on how unbelievably wide the road is. It is not even a busy street nowadays and it just creates dangerous driving and a sense of emptiness

We could take half of Tucker and make it an extension of the brickline greenway and traffic would still be fine. Could do light rail or BRT.

Finally, it is very tree and planter barren. Expand those sidewalks and get some nice trees on them


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Definitely a bait and switch project. The lack of new tree plantings downtown is truly astonishing. It almost seems like St. Louis as a whole is getting less green. 

bwcrow1s wrote:

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

3:21 PM - Mar 29

I think I overestimated this project. I thought we were cutting down more useless lanes and widening sidewalks for plantings and generally sprucing it up

Tucker needed serious narrowing and beautification. I hope we didn’t do a ribbon cutting just for repaving and the bike lane


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Me too which is why I was skeptical there was no final design I could find anywhere.  Sounds like years of bait and switch which is not atypical and also overly conservative.  This town is afraid to say yes to anything, and does not consider that trying something and failing, and redoing something, is a possibility.

This NextSTL article has a good overview. The design that is being implemented has been public for two years. The full design document is at below link.



The article mentions Design Downtown which recommends a larger project that would likely exceed $10M.

https://nextstl.com/2023/03/redeeming-t ... town-west/


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Unconfirmed but one of the downtown safety ambassadors told me tomorrow is the last day. Program was announced at end of Sept 2024 with a $5m 3 year commitment.

Crime in downtown was down about 20-25% since they started 18 months ago vs 18 months before that.

So, a total reduction of... one lane?

dbInSouthCity wrote:Unconfirmed but one of the downtown safety ambassadors told me tomorrow is the last day. Program was announced at end of Sept 2024 with a $5m 3 year commitment.

Crime in downtown was down about 20-25% since they started 18 months ago vs 18 months before that.

How does that compare to the overall City in same time period?

They are. You can email the cid general email
And ask them to handle a specific area

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

6:47 PM - Mar 30

They are. You can email the cid general email
And ask them to handle a specific area

reactive vs proactive?

Yeesh. It would be tremendous for Downtown if the Cardinals could have one good month of play, enough to convince fans to come back this summer.  Seats aren't looking much better than last year. 

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to the ballpark however I wonder how much of a role crime has played into it as well. Maybe in 2-3 years Cardinals will be contenders possibly sooner than that JJ is looking like a solid potential future star….


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Is "crime" caused a 33% decline in attendance from 2022-2025, then there's truly no hope for any possible comeback of the city since during that time crime declined significantly and crime is virtually nonexistent around the stadium on gamedays.

Reality is the Cardinals aren't an expected playoff team so STL fans don't show up. It's that straightforward.

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PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

1:09 AM - Mar 31

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to  the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to the ballpark however I wonder how much of a role crime has played into it as well.  Maybe in 2-3 years Cardinals will be contenders possibly sooner than that JJ is looking like a solid potential future star….


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I do think crime and more the perception of crime resonates with the older Cardinals  fan base,  They tend to be more older, conservative (degrees vary),  and exurban.   The cards need to find and foster a younger fan base.  

seanmcelligott28 wrote: ↑

2:10 AM - Mar 31

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

1:09 AM - Mar 31

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to  the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to


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I do think crime and more the perception of crime resonates with the older Cardinals  fan base,  They tend to be more older, conservative (degrees vary),  and exurban.   The cards need to find and foster a younger fan base.  

Well if that's the case that is something MLB needs to address overall as most stadiums are in urban centers and baseball fans as a whole are aging.

seanmcelligott28 wrote: ↑

2:10 AM - Mar 31

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

1:09 AM - Mar 31

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to  the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to the ballpark however I wonder how much of a role crime has played into it as well.  Maybe in 2-3 years Cardinals will be contenders possibly sooner than that JJ is looking like a solid potential future star….


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I do think crime and more the perception of crime resonates with the older Cardinals  fan base,  They tend to be more older, conservative (degrees vary),  and exurban.   The cards need to find and foster a younger fan base.  

The Cardinals are promoting 'Kids Sundays' this year, where they'll have 'kid-friendly activities', free hot dogs and sodas for kids in certain sections, free ice cream, and run the bases events on certain Sundays.

SLMPD was also promoting that they had a presence on opening day:



I wasn't down there so I don't know how visible they were, and I don't know if that will be a regular thing or not. But some cars, foot patrols, traffic cops, etc. during gamedays would be a good way to reassure the scared exurban moms/grandparents that it'll be okay to show up in scary downtown.

-RBB

seanmcelligott28 wrote:

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

1:09 AM - Mar 31

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to  the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to the ballpark however I wonder how much of a role crime has played into it as well.  Maybe in 2-3 years Cardinals will be contenders possibly sooner than that JJ is looking like a solid potential future star….


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I do think crime and more the perception of crime resonates with the older Cardinals  fan base,  They tend to be more older, conservative (degrees vary),  and exurban.   The cards need to find and foster a younger fan base.  

While the crime numbers are moving in the right direction, downtown still doesn’t always feel very safe. Anyone who has been to a cardinals game at night knows when you leave the game you will almost certainly see people drag racing down Broadway and hear lots of police sirens. People from the exurbs are not going to consider downtown safe when that kind of mayhem is still very common. Between that and all of the dead zones when walking around downtown, it can still feel really eerie.

I also agree the Cardinals need to cultivate a younger fan base that is more comfortable with a city environment.

There is no drag racing on Broadway, it’s 2 lanes now and as soon as the game ends it’s packed with cars

rbb wrote:

seanmcelligott28 wrote: ↑

2:10 AM - Mar 31

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑

1:09 AM - Mar 31

As much as I like to say St.Louis is a sports town this is where they are failing behind at. The Cardinal kind of did a disservice to  the fans & now they have to figure out a way to get them back to the ballpark however I wonder how much of a role crime has played into it as well.  Maybe in 2-3 years Cardinals will be contenders possibly sooner than that JJ is looking like a solid potential future star….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do think crime and more the perception of crime resonates with the older Cardinals  fan base,  They tend to be more older, conservative (degrees vary),  and exurban.   The cards need to find and foster a younger fan base.  

The Cardinals are promoting 'Kids Sundays' this year, where they'll have 'kid-friendly activities', free hot dogs and sodas for kids in certain sections, free ice cream, and run the bases events on certain Sundays.

SLMPD was also promoting that they had a presence on opening day:



I wasn't down there so I don't know how visible they were, and I don't know if that will be a regular thing or not. But some cars, foot patrols, traffic cops, etc. during gamedays would be a good way to reassure the scared exurban moms/grandparents that it'll be okay to show up in scary downtown.

-RBB

Kids Sundays have been a thing for years, there's always a very large police presence, including two SWAT teams.

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So is the city's policy is just to knee- jerk react to what a local media story says "is a bad thing" to cater to their boomer audience instead of explaining why these are needed and the benefits of bump outs?  Why should any citizen in this city expecting any long-term infrastructure improvements. IF ( when) the city will just rip it it because out of towners complain?

Yeah that's dumb.