Is there a way I can find out if my apartment is a market rate or subsidized at all? I'm nearly certain I have a market rate apartment but I never actually checked. If it is market rate everything you are saying is wrong in my view. If I am being subsidized then you might be right. I want to know before I show you examples of great places you can get for that exact dollar range you are looking for.goat314 wrote:^ I think you are right true dope. I think there is a general real estate slow down in America right now. Unfortunately, we are still in a recession malaise. People don't want to admit it, but many of the jobs we have added have not been "quality jobs" and they are often low paying. I know plenty of young, college educated people that would love to move downtown, but they don't have "downtown money". It also seems like many of the developers jumping on the "urban" bandwagon are ignoring the fact that there is a limited supply of young, hip, high earning professionals, especially in a city like St. Louis. If we focused more on building apartments in the $600-$800 range, we could attract a lot more young people to the urban core. It seems like too much of the focus in new urban housing is either low income or luxury, we are missing a large swath of people that just find it more convenient and affordable to live in the suburbs. Cant count how many times I've heard people say, "I would love to live on Washington Avenue, but its a little out of my price range" and these are not what you would call trashy or low class people.
You may live in a market-rate apartment, but you may be one of the lucky few that was able to get a place in that price range. I also know that many places downtown had waiting lists to rent and it may be for units in the price range. My main point was if Downtown housing is mostly non-existent or super hard to secure in the mid-market range of $500-$750/month, it will lose every time to the suburbs. I know MANY MANY MANY young people that would love to be Downtown, but only can afford around $650 for a one bedroom. People are going to chose the burbs every time in a place like St. Louis, where $650 can get you a pretty nice apartment, pretty much anywhere in the county. My point is many developers look at urban living as a niche in St. Louis and not a way of life that many people would choose if they could afford it.mjbais1489 wrote:Is there a way I can find out if my apartment is a market rate or subsidized at all? I'm nearly certain I have a market rate apartment but I never actually checked. If it is market rate everything you are saying is wrong in my view. If I am being subsidized then you might be right. I want to know before I show you examples of great places you can get for that exact dollar range you are looking for.goat314 wrote:^ I think you are right true dope. I think there is a general real estate slow down in America right now. Unfortunately, we are still in a recession malaise. People don't want to admit it, but many of the jobs we have added have not been "quality jobs" and they are often low paying. I know plenty of young, college educated people that would love to move downtown, but they don't have "downtown money". It also seems like many of the developers jumping on the "urban" bandwagon are ignoring the fact that there is a limited supply of young, hip, high earning professionals, especially in a city like St. Louis. If we focused more on building apartments in the $600-$800 range, we could attract a lot more young people to the urban core. It seems like too much of the focus in new urban housing is either low income or luxury, we are missing a large swath of people that just find it more convenient and affordable to live in the suburbs. Cant count how many times I've heard people say, "I would love to live on Washington Avenue, but its a little out of my price range" and these are not what you would call trashy or low class people.
These are growing pains. Almost 800 units recently have been completed or are under construction and over 350 more planned not including intriguing other possibilities such as BPV or Laclede's Landing towers:goat314 wrote:You may live in a market-rate apartment, but you may be one of the lucky few that was able to get a place in that price range. I also know that many places downtown had waiting lists to rent and it may be for units in the price range. My main point was if Downtown housing is mostly non-existent or super hard to secure in the mid-market range of $500-$750/month, it will lose every time to the suburbs. I know MANY MANY MANY young people that would love to be Downtown, but only can afford around $650 for a one bedroom. People are going to chose the burbs every time in a place like St. Louis, where $650 can get you a pretty nice apartment, pretty much anywhere in the county. My point is many developers look at urban living as a niche in St. Louis and not a way of life that many people would choose if they could afford it.mjbais1489 wrote:Is there a way I can find out if my apartment is a market rate or subsidized at all? I'm nearly certain I have a market rate apartment but I never actually checked. If it is market rate everything you are saying is wrong in my view. If I am being subsidized then you might be right. I want to know before I show you examples of great places you can get for that exact dollar range you are looking for.goat314 wrote:^ I think you are right true dope. I think there is a general real estate slow down in America right now. Unfortunately, we are still in a recession malaise. People don't want to admit it, but many of the jobs we have added have not been "quality jobs" and they are often low paying. I know plenty of young, college educated people that would love to move downtown, but they don't have "downtown money". It also seems like many of the developers jumping on the "urban" bandwagon are ignoring the fact that there is a limited supply of young, hip, high earning professionals, especially in a city like St. Louis. If we focused more on building apartments in the $600-$800 range, we could attract a lot more young people to the urban core. It seems like too much of the focus in new urban housing is either low income or luxury, we are missing a large swath of people that just find it more convenient and affordable to live in the suburbs. Cant count how many times I've heard people say, "I would love to live on Washington Avenue, but its a little out of my price range" and these are not what you would call trashy or low class people.
Ferguson is not the issue, "other crime" is. Ferguson has made it clear how poor black people are moving away from central St. Louis northward. The more Ferguson, and the rest of north county, falls the more St. Louis city rises as there is a new place to dump the problems of poor blacks away from downtown. Shaw the made the inverse point that central St. Louis is gaining significant numbers of middle-class whites while it loses blacks. This is a buying opportunity. 'Buy on the dip' as they say on Wall Street. This is a dip, nothing more.kbshapiro wrote:Matthew - I disagree with you respectfully. I think you're grossly underestimating the impact of the Ferguson incident and other crime in the City on the residential market Downtown.
Also, blaming the broker is easy, short sighted and weak. This guy leased my loft multiple times in a very short amount of time during the recession at rents at market and once above asking rate. You may see it as excuses. I see it as market information. Plus, this was only part of his reasoning for lack of interest.
Anyways, I think you're correct the recent supply into the market may slow things down but I think that's secondary in comparison to crime/race issues going on in St Louis right now.
The other issue is certainly that Wash Ave has lost its shine as I outlined earlier in this thread.
MatthewHall wrote:Ferguson is not the issue, "other crime" is. Ferguson has made it clear how poor black people are moving away from central St. Louis northward. The more Ferguson, and the rest of north county, falls the more St. Louis city rises as there is a new place to dump the problems of poor blacks away from downtown. Shaw made the inverse point that central St. Louis is gaining significant numbers of middle-class whites while it loses blacks. This is a buying opportunity. 'Buy on the dip' as they say on Wall Street. This is a dip, nothing more.kbshapiro wrote:Matthew - I disagree with you respectfully. I think you're grossly underestimating the impact of the Ferguson incident and other crime in the City on the residential market Downtown.
Also, blaming the broker is easy, short sighted and weak. This guy leased my loft multiple times in a very short amount of time during the recession at rents at market and once above asking rate. You may see it as excuses. I see it as market information. Plus, this was only part of his reasoning for lack of interest.
Anyways, I think you're correct the recent supply into the market may slow things down but I think that's secondary in comparison to crime/race issues going on in St Louis right now.
The other issue is certainly that Wash Ave has lost its shine as I outlined earlier in this thread.
I don't think anyone on this forum thinks that.i,Iive,to,draw wrote:For some reason people on the forum people think if Ferguson never happen every lot downtown would have a 20+ floor development happening right now.
There has been significant, ongoing work on that last vacant Plaza Square building (the northeast-most one) for a few months now. I haven't seen anything on that, but I gotta think it'll be occupied soon, as well.roger wyoming II wrote:^^, I corrected below as I see I did not adjust the counts when I moved the Alverne from Under Construction to Planned. Also, I've put the market rate ones in bold.... the others are some form of subsidized projects.
Recently Completed
Gallery 515 apartments - 515 Olive (102 units; Millennium Center 11 floor apartment conversion)
Lacassian Lofts -- renovation of 2200 Locust (27 units + ground floor commercial)
CitiParc at Pine - 1531 Pine (149 senior housing units; was vacant Plaza Square Building)
Tower OPOP - 411 N. 8th (128 units + ground floor restaurant)
406 units recently completed: 257 market-rate, 149 subsidized
Expected Completions 2014
Plaza Square improvements, including new garage (intended to create high occupancy rates)
2014 Expected Construction Starts with post-2014 completion
Under Construction
Arcade-Wright - 800 Olive (282 units (200 subsidized) + Webster U Gateway Campus))
Marquette Building - 304 N. Broadway (10 condos converted from old Y space)
1214 Washington mixed-use (5 units + first floor commercial)
297 units under construction: 97 market-rate; 200 subsidized
Planned
720 Olive - 111 units (partial residential conversion of office building; offices consolidated to lower floors)
The Alverne Building (1014 Locust) (81 units)
1900 Pine (87 units)
Chemical Building - 721 Olive (approx. 120 units)
2035 Lucas "Intrada Lofts" (57 units)
456 units, 369 market-rate; 87 subsidized
Total Recently Completed, Under Construction and Planned:
1,159 unit: 723 market-rate, 436 subsidized
^ thanks... I had work on the Plaza Square under "Expected Completions" but I wasn't sure of the number of units involved.... Also, my understanding was that the work was only going to rehab units in occupied buildings and that the company that did the senior housing may buy the vacant one... so that's not right? I see the occupancy permit for the garage was issued earlier this month.eee123 wrote: There has been significant, ongoing work on that last vacant Plaza Square building (the northeast-most one) for a few months now. I haven't seen anything on that, but I gotta think it'll be occupied soon, as well.
South of Pine, once Mills gets through rehabbing those buildings, there will definitely be an improvement in quality of residents there.
