urbanSTL

Have any downtown residents had discusions with people outside this forum. Maybe with people in your building or neighboring buildings. I saw DNA mentioned. Whats the consensus there?

In my building and around it I know people who still really love downtown living. But ive encountered more and more who are concerned or frustrated. I know lofts are still not really selling well but that probably more a state STL home sales not downtown.

bigmclargehuge wrote:Have any downtown residents had discusions with people outside this forum. Maybe with people in your building or neighboring buildings. I saw DNA mentioned. Whats the consensus there?

In my building and around it I know people who still really love downtown living. But ive encountered more and more who are concerned or frustrated. I know lofts are still not really selling well but that probably more a state STL home sales not downtown.

Yeah most people I talk to like living downtown. There are a few issues that one has to put up with from time to time and the pace of development hasn't continued like we all would like. However there are a ton of benefits that come with living downtown that most don't realize.

And let's be honest there are issues no matter where one lives. I could live in south city and be worried about getting burglarized. That doesn't happen downtown. I leave my door unlocked while being gone for hours.

As they say....there is no paradise.

roger wyoming II wrote:Talked briefly to a guy who I believe was with the broker for the Lasalle Building.... he was snapping some pics inside the lobby and I was hopefuly something specific was in the works but they're just trying to sell it. I would have purchased it but I was a bit low on cash at the time. Lasalle's one of my faves and an important building that could reactivate a key corner.

Where's the Lasalle building?

Im somewhat surprised that's still vacant.

From my realtor in reference to leasing my loft on Wash Ave that took less then 2 weeks to lease previously over the last 3-4 yrs:

Hey Kevin,

Sorry man but things are not going well. I have to tell you that I have not seen the downtown market this slow in a long time. The shootings have not helped us one bit, the Ferguson situation and residual protesting has also taken its toll and the constant negative news reports are just adding salt to the wounds. There was another shooting last night. This one a guy was walking alone at 19th and Washington at 1:00 in the morning and heard a pop pop pop. He looked down and realized he was shot in the leg. He was fine but still that made the news. Most of the other shootings started elsewhere in the city but unfortunately ended in downtown and that is what the news reports, downtown. Then tonight there were five young girls that jumped and beat down this one girl and ran off with $500 and this happened basically across the street from my building where sh*t like this never happens. The
cops did catch the girls though and the one who got beat up was actually not that hurt. And it's not just rentals, it's sales too. The inventory is just sitting and not really even getting shown much.

Now, I personally think this is just a blip and things will head back in the right direction but to help protect your place from sitting and getting us into the winter months with no renters, I think we need to get aggressive and continue to drop price until we land someone.

kbshapiro wrote:From my realtor in reference to leasing my loft on Wash Ave that took less then 2 weeks to lease previously over the last 3-4 yrs:

Hey Kevin,

Sorry man but things are not going well. I have to tell you that I have not seen the downtown market this slow in a long time. The shootings have not helped us one bit, the Ferguson situation and residual protesting has also taken its toll and the constant negative news reports are just adding salt to the wounds. There was another shooting last night. This one a guy was walking alone at 19th and Washington at 1:00 in the morning and heard a pop pop pop. He looked down and realized he was shot in the leg. He was fine but still that made the news. Most of the other shootings started elsewhere in the city but unfortunately ended in downtown and that is what the news reports, downtown. Then tonight there were five young girls that jumped and beat down this one girl and ran off with $500 and this happened basically across the street from my building where sh*t like this never happens. The
cops did catch the girls though and the one who got beat up was actually not that hurt. And it's not just rentals, it's sales too. The inventory is just sitting and not really even getting shown much.

Now, I personally think this is just a blip and things will head back in the right direction but to help protect your place from sitting and getting us into the winter months with no renters, I think we need to get aggressive and continue to drop price until we land someone.

He's blaming a suburb 15 miles away for not being able to sell your place? You need to find a new realtor. There are many to choose from.

MatthewHall wrote: He's blaming a suburb 15 miles away for not being able to sell your place? You need to find a new realtor. There are many to choose from.

That was your take away from that? First, he's trying to lease his apartment. Second, the realtor didn't exclusively identify the Ferguson situation as the sole reason for the slow lease effort.

MatthewHall wrote:He's blaming a suburb 15 miles away for not being able to sell your place? You need to find a new realtor. There are many to choose from.

12.1 according to Google Maps but who's counting I think the point is that the recent events aren't helping. Not just Ferguson but the uptick in murders the last couple months, especially the higher profile and brazen ones. I mean, to me, to put it bluntly, Ferguson is resulting in white people far out in the suburbs are now even less wanting to be around black people (if that was possible LOL).

A lot of us on here embrace the diversity of the city, and don't feel healthy without it, we're seasoned urbanists (for lack of a better term - early not yet done w/ my second cup of coffee) but I think what you have to keep in mind is how big of a step it is for a lot of people who all they know is the suburbs (think Chesterfield, Ellisville, Wildwood), how big of a step it is to move to a place like downtown or another great city neighborhood. There's likely at least a little trepidation involved.

It's like feeding pigeons: You make a lot of motions and jump around and sh*t and you're gonna scare them away. LOL... Sorry, like I said, need more coffee. I think you get my point tho.

terence d wrote:

MatthewHall wrote:He's blaming a suburb 15 miles away for not being able to sell your place? You need to find a new realtor. There are many to choose from.

12.1 according to Google Maps but who's counting I think the point is that the recent events aren't helping. Not just Ferguson but the uptick in murders the last couple months, especially the higher profile and brazen ones. I mean, to me, to put it bluntly, Ferguson is resulting in white people far out in the suburbs are now even less wanting to be around black people (if that was possible LOL).

A lot of us on here embrace the diversity of the city, and don't feel healthy without it, we're seasoned urbanists (for lack of a better term - early not yet done w/ my second cup of coffee) but I think what you have to keep in mind is how big of a step it is for a lot of people who all they know is the suburbs (think Chesterfield, Ellisville, Wildwood), how big of a step it is to move to a place like downtown or another great city neighborhood. There's likely at least a little trepidation involved.

It's like feeding pigeons: You make a lot of motions and jump around and sh*t and you're gonna scare them away. LOL... Sorry, like I said, need more coffee. I think you get my point tho.

For me, Ferguson shows that the center of crime is moving away from central St. Louis. The protests in Shaw reminded me how much gentrification has happened there...the opposite of white flight.

That's a bummer about slow rental. I know sales are non existent but i thought rental was still a bright spot downtown. I checked up on The Tower because they were renting well so far(About 10-12 per month). The last month only saw three rentals.

It makes sense. Few people are going to sign a lease in a place that has the potential to be a setting for a riot. Once the Ferguson thing settles down I would expect things to get better. Maybe even some robust activity due to pent up demand.

kbshapiro wrote:From my realtor in reference to leasing my loft on Wash Ave that took less then 2 weeks to lease previously over the last 3-4 yrs:

Hey Kevin,

Sorry man but things are not going well. I have to tell you that I have not seen the downtown market this slow in a long time. The shootings have not helped us one bit, the Ferguson situation and residual protesting has also taken its toll and the constant negative news reports are just adding salt to the wounds. There was another shooting last night. This one a guy was walking alone at 19th and Washington at 1:00 in the morning and heard a pop pop pop. He looked down and realized he was shot in the leg. He was fine but still that made the news. Most of the other shootings started elsewhere in the city but unfortunately ended in downtown and that is what the news reports, downtown. Then tonight there were five young girls that jumped and beat down this one girl and ran off with $500 and this happened basically across the street from my building where sh*t like this never happens. The
cops did catch the girls though and the one who got beat up was actually not that hurt. And it's not just rentals, it's sales too. The inventory is just sitting and not really even getting shown much.

Now, I personally think this is just a blip and things will head back in the right direction but to help protect your place from sitting and getting us into the winter months with no renters, I think we need to get aggressive and continue to drop price until we land someone.

I am a real estate analyst with 10 years under my belt so here is my take. First the high profile crimes and NLEC do not help but I am not sure that is it more of just slowing demand due to market being taped out. The firm I work for in NYC is staring to notice the same thing happening in NYC and DC too. I think the last 12 to 18 months were a little to good for downtown residential growth and now we are seeing the classic what comes up comes down. How much people in the STL region want to move downtown? Well it probably was not much to began with. People that want to live in the city are clearly the minority in St. Louis region and a lot of the Midwest

Ferguson probably plays a roll to some extent a lot of people in the Midwest see the word downtown as a code word for black or rundown neighborhood. But in Ferguson property values are holding steady as of right now so that may or may not be it. people also may see downtown as the old classic place for a riot so people may be avoiding it.

Timing October is historic a bad real estate month so that may not help. Also a lot of people at my firm are seeing real estate slowdown across the nation with growing rumors of a second recession coming sometime in the next 6 two 12 months. We do not work with the STL region much but maybe I will try to create a report for the form but that can take about a month.

stlien wrote:

MatthewHall wrote: He's blaming a suburb 15 miles away for not being able to sell your place? You need to find a new realtor. There are many to choose from.

That was your take away from that? First, he's trying to lease his apartment. Second, the realtor didn't exclusively identify the Ferguson situation as the sole reason for the slow lease effort.

Yes it was my take and I'm sticking to it. Real estate is about location, location, and location. Ferguson is irrelevant. Crime in downtown might not be, but there are surely other agents getting things done in downtown as we speak. How are they doing it? Excuses don't earn you commissions.

I live downtown, have for about six years now, the two agents I have talked to are singing the same blues, And I know the manager of our building is also having a harder time renting the units in our building recently. I don't think the agent is the problem. The downtown market is the problem. Part of it may be the season, but it seems to be more than that. It may be the crime reported in the downtown. Especially crime that involves violence... Not attractive to bringing more people into an area of a metro where there is an over supply of housing and housing location choices. So, other residential locations in the Saint Louis region may be a slightly warmer than downtown, at least for awhile. Hopefully for not too long of awhile.

Who wants to live somewhere where the crime is nearly out of control? I know that i wouldn't and i love downtown but theres some blame to go around and crime is a big problem not only downtown but in all of the city. The city will continue to look unattractive to people who actually want to live in the city if crime isn't fixed that n turn hurts downtown a great deal. They need more police on the city streets cause the residents who witness all of this aren't a help by no means and add fuel to the same flames. I want the city to comeback in a big way and they are making strides but this year was a body blow to the stomach Ferguson, protesters, out of control crime, racial tensions, loss of more downtown jobs. The only few bright spots IKEA ground breaking and the Arch ground breaking Stan Musial Memorial Bridge opening other than that things have been absolutely stale and down right ugly. Hopefully they can dramatically get this thing turned around. My Opinion on Washington Ave is it's a beautiful Boulevard with more than the potential to be that great downtown street in the midwest but theres a lot lacking get some chain restaurants on the Ave and with the addition to the Arcade that's potential for much needed new life in the CBD.

Crime is NOT out of control. There has been an increase since the Ferguson events and a few high profile crimes however I would not be surprised if crime downtown has decreased or us flat from last year.

And once a chain restaurant opens on Wash Ave I am out. Keep it authentic and local.

roger wyoming II wrote:1720 Olive with 111 planned units is the largest project I can think of in the works for market-rate and that may take some time to come online.

You mean 720 Olive right?

The perception of random crime downtown is a problem. Not Ferguson. The rolling gun battle near the ballpark, Jim Edmonds report on shootings next to his car near the new Laclede Gas building, and then musician van break-ins. I'm not sure people know where it may be safe to park their car near the Washington Avenue or mid-town restaurants to avoid break-ins. The garages and parking spaces near BPV, especially spaces visible from the beer garden, seem familiar and predictably safe.

By contrast, Clayton is looking more attractive in spite of no nightlife. No highly publicized random street shootouts, no homeless or solicitors. Nobody wants to live in a place they think their friends would be afraid to visit.

RedOctober wrote:Who wants to live somewhere where the crime is nearly out of control? I know that i wouldn't and i love downtown but theres some blame to go around and crime is a big problem not only downtown but in all of the city. The city will continue to look unattractive to people who actually want to live in the city if crime isn't fixed that n turn hurts downtown a great deal. They need more police on the city streets cause the residents who witness all of this aren't a help by no means and add fuel to the same flames. I want the city to comeback in a big way and they are making strides but this year was a body blow to the stomach Ferguson, protesters, out of control crime, racial tensions, loss of more downtown jobs. The only few bright spots IKEA ground breaking and the Arch ground breaking Stan Musial Memorial Bridge opening other than that things have been absolutely stale and down right ugly. Hopefully they can dramatically get this thing turned around. My Opinion on Washington Ave is it's a beautiful Boulevard with more than the potential to be that great downtown street in the midwest but theres a lot lacking get some chain restaurants on the Ave and with the addition to the Arcade that's potential for much needed new life in the CBD.

Exactly. But what does Ferguson or far north City have to do with Downtown real estate?

gary kreie wrote:The perception of random crime downtown is a problem. Not Ferguson. The rolling gun battle near the ballpark, Jim Edmonds report on shootings next to his car near the new Laclede Gas building, and then musician van break-ins. I'm not sure people know where it may be safe to park their car near the Washington Avenue or mid-town restaurants to avoid break-ins. The garages and parking spaces near BPV, especially spaces visible from the beer garden, seem familiar and predictably safe.

By contrast, Clayton is looking more attractive in spite of no nightlife. No highly publicized random street shootouts, no homeless or solicitors. Nobody wants to live in a place they think their friends would be afraid to visit.

I bet your opinion is not something that some want to hear, but I agree with everything you said. Ferguson seems to have a chilling effect in the sense that most news surrounding the region is negative, and downtown is also a secondary venue for protests, but I also believe that downtown has a perception problem all its own due to the factors that you mentioned.