I wouldn’t say it’s a tangible blow but generally rents going down is a sign of weakening demand, which could discourage investment
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I’m still waiting to hear back from a contact at CW about that defines the CDB for apartments but I suspect this is mostly the units that first came online in downtown after 2000s that are going to feel pressure to either lower rent or renovate as 1000s new and highly amenitized units have come online since Covid including the 400 at Butler Brothers
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Does South City really have the highest vacancy rate of all submarkets? Seems surprising, and how much lower it is for North City in comparison.
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Probably they define a vacant unit as one that is ready for occupancy and actively waiting for a tenant. North City has a ton of vacant units, but many are abandoned or in disrepair so not included in the total.
There's a lot of surprises in those Multifamily stats. Like that the CWE vacancy rate is 9.2%, I wish I could see in which buildings those vacant units are, because the neighborhood's rental market still seems hot although (fortunately imo) the rapid rent increases have started to abate. 18.4% for South City seems extremely high.
Also surprised that the price per square foot is lower in U City than any other submarket except North City/County and that South City & Downtown have higher prices per square foot than Ballwin, Kirkwood, Maryland Heights/Creve Ceour and St. Charles County.
Also surprised that the price per square foot is lower in U City than any other submarket except North City/County and that South City & Downtown have higher prices per square foot than Ballwin, Kirkwood, Maryland Heights/Creve Ceour and St. Charles County.
CoStar shows rent growth of 1.7% for Downtown properties (Q4 2022 - Q4 2023). There are so many variables, you can slice and dice a bunch of ways, but below is the area I am looking at...
CoStar pulls its data from Apartments.com (which it owns) and frequent phone surveys, so I think it is probably the most reliable source. Affordable LIHTC units are excluded here, since those rents aren't market driven. LIHTC max rents in the St. Louis region actually declined from 2022 to 2023 which might have some impact if affordable units are considered.
Vacancy is way up from 13% to 19% due in part to the introduction of The Victor which is still in lease-up.
CoStar pulls its data from Apartments.com (which it owns) and frequent phone surveys, so I think it is probably the most reliable source. Affordable LIHTC units are excluded here, since those rents aren't market driven. LIHTC max rents in the St. Louis region actually declined from 2022 to 2023 which might have some impact if affordable units are considered.
Vacancy is way up from 13% to 19% due in part to the introduction of The Victor which is still in lease-up.
- CoStar Downtown submarkets
![DowntownMulti.png (459.39KiB)]()
In America’s overwhelmed downtowns, private security guards like Michael Bock have become the solution of last resort.
https://archive.ph/YqN7Q
https://archive.ph/YqN7Q
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Victor was at about 75/184 but than it dropped the final 200 online and also the building on the corner of 19th and Washington dropped too
So inventory went up by about 570
So inventory went up by about 570
It’s not everyday that you have a Vice President in your downtown but also have John Cena in your downtown, he was at Catalyst Coffee this morning
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When are we going to see some foot traffic in downtown on Thursdays or is it a pipedream? It is very depressing to see deserted streets at lunch time on a Thursday afternoon...
Whenever the office workers come back. WFH has set DT back years.
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alternatively (or maybe complimentarily) when the residential population reaches critical massdtgwvc wrote: ↑Oct 06, 2023Whenever the office workers come back. WFH has set DT back years.
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Oddly enough every restaurant in downtown that has locations in other places including Katie’s Pizza, Salt and Smoke, Sugarfire, hi-pointe, UKraft, sushi AI say their downtown locations are their busiest
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Clayton midday foot traffic is pretty light too despite workers seemingly mostly back in the office now. Maybe StL just doesn’t have much of a get out of the office, go for a walk, get lunch out crowd. People seem to be more drive to office, never go outside, eat at desk, go home as early as possible crowd.
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Downtown Clayton also had half the daily workers then downtown STL, and almost no tourists and about 1/4th of downtown stls residents.
What is the total number of downtown workers in downtown STL and Clayton?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 06, 2023Downtown Clayton also had half the daily workers then downtown STL, and almost no tourists and about 1/4th of downtown stls residents.
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58,000 vs 27,000
Most downtown had since 2000 was about 75,000 in 2016
Just thing about hotels, about 3 dozen in Downtown and all employee about 50-100 people depending on size.
Most downtown had since 2000 was about 75,000 in 2016
Just thing about hotels, about 3 dozen in Downtown and all employee about 50-100 people depending on size.
There are also seasonal jobs, like 81 days a year over 1,900 people work at Busch, 80 days a year enterprise is staffed for blues and other events with 500+.
I am in downtown LA right now and if downtown STL looked like this place - we would have to just close the city. My hotel is the Marriott adjacent to the Ritz and you cannot even walk on the sidewalks here - literally - there are so many homeless shanties and tents with trash, filth and smells unbearable. I mean the entire city is like this with graffiti everywhere too. My UBER driver told me that theft at the stores downtown is out of control and the city looks horrible... got that right!
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The pits of nice year round weather….homeless migrant
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Stayed in downtown Charlotte this week for work and while there’s a bit more activity than downtown st. louis, at least in terms of restaurants and bars, there were issues I witnessed.
There was a significant amount of homeless and drag racing. I heard a homeless man shouting until 4-5am from hotel. Cop cars racing down a street while walking home from downtown. It didn’t feel very comfortable.
Posting this here, as I feel that many compare our downtowns with others. And many think our problems are only unique to us. Moral of the story - things that happen in STL are happening other places as well.
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There was a significant amount of homeless and drag racing. I heard a homeless man shouting until 4-5am from hotel. Cop cars racing down a street while walking home from downtown. It didn’t feel very comfortable.
Posting this here, as I feel that many compare our downtowns with others. And many think our problems are only unique to us. Moral of the story - things that happen in STL are happening other places as well.
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I'm in NC for work and even a smaller town like Hickory (population 43.5K; about 1 hour north of Charlotte) has a pretty significant homeless population. Apparently, they camp out in the wooded areas so you don't always see them but the locals all know about them and try to avoid certain parts of town where they congregate.
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Yeah, I would get used to seeing homeless almost everywhere with economic and social conditions as they are. Be easier just to, y'know, house them like Finland and Utah have done but who has the time to implement real solutions these day?
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I stayed in downtown Minneapolis a few weeks back and while I did hear drag/motorcycle racing the number of unhoused was lower than I expected. Keep in mind it was still in the upper 90's here and it was a good twenty degrees cooler there. If I were unhoused I'd certainly prefer a cooler clime in the summer.
The racing stuff is annoying and seems to be hitting pretty much all downtowns that aren't at critical mass.
And while downtown MPS is quite a bit more advanced activity wise than downtown STL I still found it harder to find an open coffee shop on Sunday morning than I do here.
The racing stuff is annoying and seems to be hitting pretty much all downtowns that aren't at critical mass.
And while downtown MPS is quite a bit more advanced activity wise than downtown STL I still found it harder to find an open coffee shop on Sunday morning than I do here.