I live in downtown CLT in First Ward currently. I'm originally from the Shaw neighborhood. I moved to the First Ward neighborhood because not far from CLT's downtown it can feel very suburban. Some neighborhoods a few miles outside of downtown CLT don't have sidewalks. Plus the only current light rail line in CLT runs through downtown. I take it to UNC Charlotte to work. Charlotte wasn't a big city until after WWII. Thus the suburb feel outside of downtown and the streetcar suburbs. 277 and 77 (which the CLT urban planet and I hate) was built in the 70s, cutting off neighborhoods from each other. A lot of old Charlotte has been torn down and rebuilt except a few streetcar suburb neighborhoods outside of downtown like Dilworth and Plaza Midwood. I miss the old architecture. What I miss about downtown Charlotte is a water feature. It was built on native American trails that crisscrossed each other. The rebuilding of downtown Charlotte has done a fairly good job - as some of you say, there are green areas (parks) in each Ward which hosted concerts pre-pandemic. Fourth Ward is the most quaint Ward with lots of old houses that were actually brought to the Ward from other areas of the city that were being developed. 3rd Ward is fairly urban except as it approaches 277. 2nd Ward is the most boring - rebuilt in the 70s after tearing down Brooklyn, a former African-American neighborhood. I was pleased to see the monument placed near Citypark documenting the tear down of the old Mill valley area. There are a few buildings left in 2nd Ward but in CLT reminding us of what once was, and one or two plaques, but that's all. What has been amazing in Charlotte to watch even since I moved here in 2016 is the development along the light rail line. Where you see the "North Italia" restaurant is called the "South End" and has become the neighborhood to be in if you are young and hip. 15 years ago, it was mostly warehouses. Now it is full of restaurants, breweries, condos and apartments with swimming pools - perfect for those who work in the banks. It has become an extension of "Uptown" (as downtown is called here). The light rail ended in Uptown right around First Ward. Now it extends Northeast toward the university (where it says "Noda" for N. Davidson and beyond: and development is taking place all along that stretch. The developers have really taken advantage of the light rail. Most of the broadway-type theaters including the symphony and five museums as well as the Bank of America stadium (soccer and football), Spectrum center (NBA) and minor league baseball stadium are in Uptown. It is nice to see large crowds of people together in Uptown when there are shows and sports events at the same time. I have to admit that I like living within the Uptown area and can easily walk all over. CLT's uptown is suffering from the same problem as other cities with fewer people working in the center than pre-pandemic. Many restaurants closed and haven't opened again - especially in First Ward which is further away from the main office buildings near the Museum of Illusions. And there are a number of homeless everywhere. And there have been street races during the pandemic and even recently with streets being taken over. But overall it seems fairly safe. I wouldn't walk alone late at night but up until 10 pm there are usually other people walking around. I do miss the architecture in STL and overall I feel the arts scene is so much better in STl as well as the parks system. Here they are almost finished with the cross-county (Mecklenburg -of which Charlotte takes a large percentage of) greenway. I am looking forward to that as it runs along the side of Uptown. But there aren't parks like Forest or Tower Grove or even the Arch grounds. Just thought I would give you my 2 cents living here.
Thank you for sharing in such detail. I only know CLT from 3-5 biz trips/year. Undoubtedly, a city on the rise. I believe STL is still bigger than CLT but that will change in the next census I'd guess.urbanjoe wrote: ↑Mar 09, 2023I live in downtown CLT in First Ward currently. I'm originally from the Shaw neighborhood. I moved to the First Ward neighborhood because not far from CLT's downtown it can feel very suburban. Some neighborhoods a few miles outside of downtown CLT don't have sidewalks. Plus the only current light rail line in CLT runs through downtown. I take it to UNC Charlotte to work. Charlotte wasn't a big city until after WWII. Thus the suburb feel outside of downtown and the streetcar suburbs. 277 and 77 (which the CLT urban planet and I hate) was built in the 70s, cutting off neighborhoods from each other. A lot of old Charlotte has been torn down and rebuilt except a few streetcar suburb neighborhoods outside of downtown like Dilworth and Plaza Midwood. I miss the old architecture. What I miss about downtown Charlotte is a water feature. It was built on native American trails that crisscrossed each other. The rebuilding of downtown Charlotte has done a fairly good job - as some of you say, there are green areas (parks) in each Ward which hosted concerts pre-pandemic. Fourth Ward is the most quaint Ward with lots of old houses that were actually brought to the Ward from other areas of the city that were being developed. 3rd Ward is fairly urban except as it approaches 277. 2nd Ward is the most boring - rebuilt in the 70s after tearing down Brooklyn, a former African-American neighborhood. I was pleased to see the monument placed near Citypark documenting the tear down of the old Mill valley area. There are a few buildings left in 2nd Ward but in CLT reminding us of what once was, and one or two plaques, but that's all. What has been amazing in Charlotte to watch even since I moved here in 2016 is the development along the light rail line. Where you see the "North Italia" restaurant is called the "South End" and has become the neighborhood to be in if you are young and hip. 15 years ago, it was mostly warehouses. Now it is full of restaurants, breweries, condos and apartments with swimming pools - perfect for those who work in the banks. It has become an extension of "Uptown" (as downtown is called here). The light rail ended in Uptown right around First Ward. Now it extends Northeast toward the university (where it says "Noda" for N. Davidson and beyond: and development is taking place all along that stretch. The developers have really taken advantage of the light rail. Most of the broadway-type theaters including the symphony and five museums as well as the Bank of America stadium (soccer and football), Spectrum center (NBA) and minor league baseball stadium are in Uptown. It is nice to see large crowds of people together in Uptown when there are shows and sports events at the same time. I have to admit that I like living within the Uptown area and can easily walk all over. CLT's uptown is suffering from the same problem as other cities with fewer people working in the center than pre-pandemic. Many restaurants closed and haven't opened again - especially in First Ward which is further away from the main office buildings near the Museum of Illusions. And there are a number of homeless everywhere. And there have been street races during the pandemic and even recently with streets being taken over. But overall it seems fairly safe. I wouldn't walk alone late at night but up until 10 pm there are usually other people walking around. I do miss the architecture in STL and overall I feel the arts scene is so much better in STl as well as the parks system. Here they are almost finished with the cross-county (Mecklenburg -of which Charlotte takes a large percentage of) greenway. I am looking forward to that as it runs along the side of Uptown. But there aren't parks like Forest or Tower Grove or even the Arch grounds. Just thought I would give you my 2 cents living here.
Yes, there are many people moving here (mostly from the Northeast) to get away from winter weather and high taxes. I don't know many native Charlotteans (many have moved to the S. Carolina suburbs where it is cheaper to live). Charlotte (even my Title VI neighborhood of First Ward) is becoming expensive and there is a lot of gentrification forcing people with lower incomes to move out to the far burbs - which by the way are the fastest diversifying areas. There are many immigrants here as well from all parts of the world. And there is talk that climate migrants from Florida and the SE coasts will move here after disaster strikes in those areas. Similar to Missouri, the Republican-controlled NC legislature wants more roads, not public transportation. This is a big mistake for such a growing city as far as I am concerned. And similar to Missouri, the out-state areas are still very Republican. Even though NC is purple (at the moment) with the possibility to become bluer, it won't change for a while - thus holding Charlotte back from truly becoming urban outside of the Uptown/South End area in my view.
Check out the Counterpublic thread in the Events and Fun Things To Do section. The upcoming public art program will include a focus on the Mound Builders and Sugarloaf Mound.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 07, 2023Where are the monuments, nods, tip-of-the-caps, or otherwise for the countless mounds that were within St. Louis city borders? We've destroyed all but one.
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https://www.saucemagazine.com/a/60132/s ... G22Ifcp8aw
Spanish-inspired restaurant Idol Wolf and coffee shop Good Press opening in downtown St. Louis in late spring
Spanish-inspired restaurant Idol Wolf and coffee shop Good Press opening in downtown St. Louis in late spring
This will be the 5th charter school in downtown west (taking the entire 2nd floor at Park Pacific)
KIPP high school at Jefferson and Washington
Confluence at 14th and Locust
STL Language immersion school on Olive next to Citypark garage
And a new school opening this fall at 400 18th street by union station.
KIPP high school at Jefferson and Washington
Confluence at 14th and Locust
STL Language immersion school on Olive next to Citypark garage
And a new school opening this fall at 400 18th street by union station.
St. Louis is actually in the 2nd tier of downtowns for productive land use, but we could definitely do much better.
^I was really surprised St. Louis wasn't as bad as many of the other cities lol.
Yeah, I totally agree. Also, it's interesting that many boomtowns with a massive amount of infill have less productivity than St. Louis. I mean Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and Nashville have weaker downtowns than St. Louis? That's almost hard to believe, but I guess our old bones helped us a bit.
Old bones definitely help. St. Louis's street grid lends to walkability. Infill of our parking lots and improved transit options would jump us up the list substantially. All the cities you outlined above are very car centric in my experience and could not as easily improve.goat314 wrote: ↑Mar 24, 2023Yeah, I totally agree. Also, it's interesting that many boomtowns with a massive amount of infill have less productivity than St. Louis. I mean Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and Nashville have weaker downtowns than St. Louis? That's almost hard to believe, but I guess our old bones helped us a bit.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Mar 23, 2023^I was really surprised St. Louis wasn't as bad as many of the other cities lol.
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I can't believe Arlington was even included.
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Gotta wonder how big the building is in downtown Arlington that requires 99% parking.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Mar 24, 2023I can't believe Arlington was even included.
.. plopped right in front of benches, rendering them useless?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 25, 20234Hands coming to Kiener Plaza
..man, who makes decisions in this city like this. lol That's...not thought out, clearly. I want to be excited about this. But that is so distracting. - 9,529
I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
Rooster space is going to be divided 5 spaces to go with the one on the side (leased to Chef Juwan Rice for his first restaurant, he’s just 21 and a very well established chef) 2 other spaces have been leased.
Then what was the point of spending money on installing the benches if you're going to make them inaccessible and void of their use? If that were the prevailing attitude, then why not just uninstall all of them and remove all the seating? Great use of dollars there...may seem like a piddly point to you. But it's still a valid point.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
I'm with DB on this one. The benches wind all around the plaza. They had to put the shipping container somewhere. Removing all the benches out of spite is pretty silly.SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023Then what was the point of spending money on installing the benches if you're going to make them inaccessible and void of their use? If that were the prevailing attitude, then why not just uninstall all of them and remove all the seating? Great use of dollars there...may seem like a piddly point to you. But it's still a valid point.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
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Because you claim your own point is valid doesn't mean it is valid.SRQ2STL wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023Then what was the point of spending money on installing the benches if you're going to make them inaccessible and void of their use? If that were the prevailing attitude, then why not just uninstall all of them and remove all the seating? Great use of dollars there...may seem like a piddly point to you. But it's still a valid point.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
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Give me 20 days a year where more than 75% of the bench space is used at one time then your point is valid. As somebody who designs and programs these space this is an excellent method of bringing people to an otherwise very hard scape oriented plaza. Additionally it was thought out at least minimally as can be seen by the wood protecting the pavers. Another great reason for its location is being right next to the playground. Easy money maker with parents just chilling while watching kiddos.SRQ2STL wrote:Then what was the point of spending money on installing the benches if you're going to make them inaccessible and void of their use? If that were the prevailing attitude, then why not just uninstall all of them and remove all the seating? Great use of dollars there...may seem like a piddly point to you. But it's still a valid point.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
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i think the point is retail was not incorporated into the design of the space when it was redesigned a few years ago. It obviously should have been.LArchitecture wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023Give me 20 days a year where more than 75% of the bench space is used at one time then your point is valid. As somebody who designs and programs these space this is an excellent method of bringing people to an otherwise very hard scape oriented plaza. Additionally it was thought out at least minimally as can be seen by the wood protecting the pavers. Another great reason for its location is being right next to the playground. Easy money maker with parents just chilling while watching kiddos.SRQ2STL wrote:Then what was the point of spending money on installing the benches if you're going to make them inaccessible and void of their use? If that were the prevailing attitude, then why not just uninstall all of them and remove all the seating? Great use of dollars there...may seem like a piddly point to you. But it's still a valid point.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2023I think taking up 15 feet of bench out of like 500 at Kiener is going to be just fine
I don't mind the aesthetic although i can understand why some might not like it. I also understand why they didn't build in permanent structure as with city garden given how that space has struggled with tenants. But it ridiculous the designers didn't have a rectangle of space earmarked as "future retail" in the redesign of the plaza. To say that plopping in a shipping container in front of benches is fine dismisses this very glaring oversight that i am fairly sure was called out by critics during the public engagement phase.
Are we saying Atlanta, Dallas, Nashville, etc. have weaker downtowns solely based on the amount of parking? Hot take here... Active downtowns are supported by ample and easily accessible parking options. Although this might be heresy, it might be worth a deeper more nuanced discussion than "Parking is Evil".goat314 wrote: ↑Mar 24, 2023Yeah, I totally agree. Also, it's interesting that many boomtowns with a massive amount of infill have less productivity than St. Louis. I mean Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and Nashville have weaker downtowns than St. Louis? That's almost hard to believe, but I guess our old bones helped us a bit.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Mar 23, 2023^I was really surprised St. Louis wasn't as bad as many of the other cities lol.
The fact that many are surprised about where cities rank, means there is more to it than just % of land use dedicated to parking. Maybe the parking is better located, better designed, or maybe if the downtown is active and vibrant you just don't notice the parking as much regardless of the location and design.
Years back I remember seeing a study of the St. Louis CBD office market and buildings with ample dedicated parking were > 90%+ occupied while buildings with no parking or token dedicated parking were < 80% occupied.
Planners, designers, city officials can try to force people to live car-free, but unfortunately(?) the market will likely have the final word.