The only thing I know is that the airport is decent, because I spent a couple of hours there a few years ago on the way to and from my honeymoon in Nassau.



If you haven't already checked it out, I'd suggest the Skyscraper Page forum. There's also the City Data.com website, although I'd say the former source is more useful as it typically attracts more urban enthusiasts and less naysayers.

dweebe wrote:I might have to relocate to Charlotte NC. Anyone know anything about the city? It's one of the few cities in America I haven't been to.



What are the decent urban areas that might be considered interesting?



My first couple searches from google don't turn anything up similar to this forum.

First of all, I'm sorry, but you can't leave STL.



That said, check out the South End and Dilworth - it's a cool historic area.

I moved to Charlotte seven months ago for work. This guest editorial I did back before my move still largely rings true today. When I first arrived, I felt like Charlotte was a huge Clayton on steroids. Be prepared to question there is even a recession happening. Now, I'm buying a house in the one neighborhood that reminds me the most of St. Louis.



Anyway, here's an interesting contrast from Zillow.com:



On Charlotte:

The main types of people are:

1. Power Singles - High-income urban singles.

2. Makin' It Singles - Upper-scale urban singles.

3. High $$ DINKs - Urban high-income couples with no children.

On St. Louis:

The main types of people are:

1. Wise Old Urbanites - Older home-owning city dwellers in older buildings.

2. College Life - Students in higher education. These individuals are enrolled in college or graduate school.

3. Aspiring Urbanites - Urban singles with moderate income.

Would it be fair to liken Charlotte to Atlanta 20 years ago?

jlblues wrote:Would it be fair to liken Charlotte to Atlanta 20 years ago?

Charlotte seems to be smarter about managing its growth, IMO. From what I've heard, they're taking steps to learn from Atlanta's mistakes, like poor traffic planning.

^All true, but it's quickly changing due to the huge in-migration of non-Southerners. Right now, the state with the largest in-migration is indeed North Carolina, Ohio seeing the largest out-migration. As a result, Charlotte feels like a more progressive oasis in the conservative South. Granted, it's more libertarian than liberal, but then again, if you're already used to the cultural contrast between out-state MO and STL, then you're ready for living in what the dwindling natives jokingly call the "yankee containment area" of Charlotte. Charlotte is also more diverse than St. Louis. Right now, half of all new students enrolling in our top-rated "urban" (covers full county) district have a Spanish surname. It's no wonder then why Charlotte has more bagel shops and tacquerias than BBQ joints.

^The in-town neighborhoods within one to three miles of "Uptown," what locals call the CBD encircled by I-277, are where you'll find historic housing stock. For example, I'm buying a home in an area that reminds me culturally of University City, but architecturally is more Maplewood. But since there is such little pre-1950 construction in Charlotte, all the old homes are either already over the City's median of $235k or in a transitioning neighborhood. There are websites for both in-town home searches and another for condo searches.



And if you want a simple way to understand the demographics and home values of Charlotte, just turn St. Louis a quarter-turn counter-clockwise. IOW, South Charlotte is like affluent Mid- and West STL County, East Charlotte like diverse South City with East suburbs more like South County, North Charlotte like the blend of the Metro East ranging from ESL to Edwardsville depending on distance from the CBD, and West Charlotte having similar stigmas and segregation of North City/County. The huge difference is imagine taking the quarter-turned STL and now making it all within the city limits with suburbs only located outside the outerbelt (I-485 in Charlotte) and the full County under one school district. Not surprisingly then, Charlotte has over 75% of its own county's (Mecklenburg) population (only six other municipalities in the same county, each with present-day unincorporated fringes already spoken for) and over 40% of its sprawling metropolitan population. However, the metropolitan area largely consists of nearby micropolitan satellites, with the vast majority of the contiguous urbanized area still falling into just one county (Mecklenburg; Union County to the SE has the most spill-over).



Yet since the city limits encompass virtually everything inside the outerbelt, Charlotte has everything from areas like Wellston to Ladue inside its limits (and thus, why a median over $200k and an average pushing $300k). Of course, given the relative newness of Charlotte, it also has areas that resemble St. Peters, as well as nothing much older than inner-ring St. Louis County communities. Hence, it's a suburban-looking city with a few inner-ring early 20th century neighborhoods now retrofitting itself with a lot of New Urbanist-minded infill and new developments. Without a doubt, I sorely miss the architecture of STL, but without a doubt, Charlotte is a national model of good governance, though likely a result of its extremely low fragmentation, strong economy and huge influx of people.

As far as basements, I've heard that the reason they don't have them down south is because the ground doesn't freeze like it does up north. If you have to dig a basement it costs more to build a house. Why do you think most of our City homes have stairs going up to the door? Because back in the day people dug by hand to get below the freeze line.

brickandmortar wrote:As far as basements, I've heard that the reason they don't have them down south is because the ground doesn't freeze like it does up north. If you have to dig a basement it costs more to build a house. Why do you think most of our City homes have stairs going up to the door? Because back in the day people dug by hand to get below the freeze line.

Partially true. Here you have to place the foundation below the frost line (2'-6" below grade in St. Louis), so, theoretically, it is not that much more expensive to excavate and construct a whole basement. That really isn't true, so I think the reason most new homes here are built with basements has more to do with tradition, i.e. most people here expect a basement in their new home.



There are varying reasons why there are no basements in the south. In much of Louisiana and Florida the reason there are no basements is because of the high water table. In much of Texas and Oklahoma, it is the soil. The soil there is either very rocky and is expensive to excavate, or is unconsolidated clay. Over the many ice ages, glaciers have consolidated the soil in the northern half of the country (roughly), but the south remains largely unconsolidated. Unconsolidated clay goes through extreme expansion and contraction with moisture content - cracking the hell out of a basement wall in the process - and also tends to want to push up anything placed on it after the overlying soil is removed.



I have seen pictures of in-ground swimming pools in Texas being almost completely pushed out of the ground when the soil was not properly consolidated (an expensive and time-consuming process). This can happen in the St. Louis area as well in places where there is unconsolidated clay such as river flood plains, e.g. Chesterfield Valley. Many of the warehouses/distribution centers in the Valley and Earth City had to have the soil consolidated prior to construction. If you have ever seen a 20' mound of dirt covering most of a construction site in such a place, that is what they are doing.



Far more than you ever wanted to know about geotechnology, I'm sure.

Isn't North Carolina a right to work state? hmmmm

Well, Charlotte has a brand new light rail, designed by some of the same folks who brought you Metrolink. Bro-in-law was shocked at the housing prices, apparently due to the large number of SF and NY/Boston transplants working in the banking industry.

^Yet it's the fastest growing major city east of the Mississippi. Over 65% of Charlotte residents were born in another state (or country). That's higher than even hip Austin or hippie Portland.



While I'll agree that it's currently too suburban-looking for my tastes, it's quickly changing. There is an abundant amount of urban infill and redevelopment inside and close to downtown. And since there is such little history here, developers build the latest designs.



And it's surprisingly progressive. Put simply, if it's a national trend or new idea, it's already happening or underway in Charlotte. TOD, lifestyle centers, light-rail transit, modern streetcars, complete streets, HOV lanes, tolling, stormwater impact fees, green roofs, and even car-elevator parking.



As quoted from the Convention and Visitors' Bureau:

More than just the nation's second largest financial center, the Queen City's changing face will surprise you. As a magnet for progressive growth and smart development these days, the city finds itself welcoming more and more new faces—both visitors and residents alike.

^Sorry, but several cities use that nickname, including Buffalo as well. Yet only Charlotte is actually named after a queen. Similar to St. Louis being named for a French king, Charlotte is named for an English queen.

Springfield, Mo. is sometimes referred to as the "Queen City of the Ozarks" (not like there's another place challenging it as the leading city in the region or anything).