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PostOct 10, 2014#476

Is St.Louis currently the worse city in all of America right now ???
Detroit Cleveland Pittsburgh Buffalo Kansas City all seem to have a lot of great things happening
As to here everything seems to be crumbling or near collapse falling way down the bottom

How can St.Louis pick itself up from all this aftermath of just bad fortunes...

I'm very concerned about leadership here.. The City just doesn't seem to have any organized direction at all..
Does St.Louis have a real image or true identity?
Downtown doesn't have a spark or flare
Or am i reading too much into whats happening throughout the area?

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PostOct 10, 2014#477

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:Is St.Louis currently the worse city in all of America right now ???


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PostOct 10, 2014#478

Not that baseball has anything to do with real civic issues, but it is interesting how our baseball success is only fueling more fire for people to hate St. Louis right now (redneck, racist fans challenging protestors outside Busch; "BFIB" bu11$hit hitting the media hard). Meanwhile in KC and Baltimore, the success of their teams is augmenting this rah-rah for the up and coming mid tier city stuff.

As an example of our rough image lately, there was this cartoon floating around the other day online regarding the 9 "states" of Missouri. The KC state was represented by a plate of ribs with a blue ribbon, a jazz trumpeter, and a smiling ballplayer with a crown. The STL state was represented by the Arch, a drunk looking Cardinal bird slumped against a baseball, and a tank pointed at a protestor.......lovely.

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PostOct 10, 2014#479

^


That is from our very own RFT!

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PostOct 10, 2014#480

The RFT has a chance to put out some positive articles about St. Louis during this troubling time but they seem more set on piling on and throwing gasoline on the fire. Where has our city pride gone? St. Louis needs some love.

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PostOct 10, 2014#481

I dont have a problem with this-- why do a warm and fuzzy piece when that isnt reality. this is 40 years of crap just exploding and everyone is to blame.

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PostOct 10, 2014#482

dbInSouthCity wrote:I dont have a problem with this-- why do a warm and fuzzy piece when that isnt reality. this is 40 years of crap just exploding and everyone is to blame.
In a way ignoring the problems is exactly what lead to everything happening, it just needed a trigger. Since too often the issues were just ignored or dismissed as not existing, so now is the time to finally confront all of the issues which in some ways go back 150 years or so. I've seen more than a few stories that show how many people were in denial there were issues.

Actually that picture in a way highlights how different areas of the state is, which in some ways has more differences than most states do due to many cultural, regional, and geographical boundaries that cross the state.

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PostOct 10, 2014#483

These things are happening because of a failure of people to take responsibility for their actions. Blaming 'everyone' is part of the problem, not the solution. Taking individual responsibility for your position and actions in relation to these problems is the answer. Throwing your hands in the air and saying it is hopeless is what caused these problems in the first place.

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PostOct 10, 2014#484

dbInSouthCity wrote:I dont have a problem with this-- why do a warm and fuzzy piece when that isnt reality. this is 40 years of crap just exploding and everyone is to blame.
I'm not saying a paper should only print fluff pieces but some of these news stories are just so over the top negative it's nauseating. Don't underestimate the effect on a population who's constantly bombarded by negative press. At some point you have to lift your foot off someones head or they'll drown.

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PostOct 10, 2014#485

As political commentary I think its clever. It's like those tourist maps that show what a state is known for. St. Louis at this moment is known for the Police overreach in Ferguson, segregated communities represented by the Delmar divide, and the unfortunate incident at the Cardinals game. That is our image to the world.

You can interpret it as saying "This is St. Louis." which to me is unfair, offensive, alienating, and divisive, or you can interpret it as saying "Is this is how you want St. Louis to be known?" which to me is sickening, and embarrassing, but also constructive, edifying and completely fair. I think a caption would have better conveyed it as a call to change what is the global narrative of this fair city.

That said its really easy to call for change. Its very hard to see what change will/should look like and who will pay for it.

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PostOct 10, 2014#486

MatthewHall wrote:Throwing your hands in the air and saying it is hopeless is what caused these problems in the first place.
Well... I would more say a legacy of institutionalized racism among other things... But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions.

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PostOct 10, 2014#487

moorlander wrote:
dbInSouthCity wrote:I dont have a problem with this-- why do a warm and fuzzy piece when that isnt reality. this is 40 years of crap just exploding and everyone is to blame.
I'm not saying a paper should only print fluff pieces but some of these news stories are just so over the top negative it's nauseating. Don't underestimate the effect on a population who's constantly bombarded by negative press. At some point you have to lift your foot off someones head or they'll drown.
A quick aside, if you don't mind: I spent a week in Nashville this summer. Although I've been there many times, this was the first time I really got the chance to explore the city like an urbanist rather than a tourist, and I fell in love. Granted, it cannot compare to St. Louis in terms of interesting urban neighborhoods and it definitely falls short in architecture, but there are so many up-and-coming places and construction is everywhere you look, and that's exciting. I am seriously entertaining the idea of moving there, although it would be several years off. When my wife asked me what I liked the best about Nashville, I said, "Well, there's not a constant doom-and-gloom around here like there often is in St. Louis". Don't misunderstand me, I still have a very positive opinion of St. Louis and a lot of hope for its future. However, I said this a month before the Brown shooting, and the last two months (especially the last two days) have proved to be a serious test for the strength of my civic pride. Since I'm sticking around for a while, I'd better find a way to get that civic pride back, I guess.

That said, I agree with you. I think Enginerd has a good point about the value of pointing out the negative in a way that prompts us to think of how we want to be seen as a community. Sometimes a critical look at things prompts positive action. However, besides the Cardinals entering the playoffs, I struggle to think of any good news I've heard in the last two months. Things that would have ordinarily gotten more attention- like the announcement of 700 more jobs at Boeing- have been relegated to footnote status at best. I suppose that's because the media knows that the Brown story generates clicks, ad sales, and revenue. I suppose it also explains the high amount of irresponsible reporting on that matter, in my opinion at least.

I agree that the line needs to be drawn somewhere. However, I must confess that I still enjoyed the RFT article. The characterizations of outstate Missouri regions were pretty funny and quite accurate as well. :wink:

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PostOct 10, 2014#488

I just read the RFT article and found the whole thing mean-spirited and snarky. The author had absolutely nothing positive to say about anyplace in the entire state. Why even live here if you despise everything around you?

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PostOct 10, 2014#489

dmmonty1 wrote:I just read the RFT article and found the whole thing mean-spirited and snarky. The author had absolutely nothing positive to say about anyplace in the entire state. Why even live here if you despise everything around you?
That's a very fair question. I suppose I am numb to it all because I cannot remember the last time that anyone at Riverfront Times had anything positive to say about St. Louis or its surroundings.

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PostOct 10, 2014#490

^^ Actually some of this could be the growing tensions between the urban core vs the rest of the state and that is somewhat reflected. Mainly the growing divergence and the frustrations in dealing with state politics since in terms of urban development and regional growth, in my opinion Jefferson City is a growing obstacle by both not prioritizing said growth due to political views and possibly with some of its politics could be making people think twice about moving here or driving people who are here away.

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PostOct 10, 2014#491

Lots of positive things are still happening in the region. Don't lose sight of that and let ferguson etc, get you down. I'll take STL over Nashville, Denver, Dallas any day! The core continues to get redeveloped and that will further help. We need to hear the final investigation in Ferguson and can hopefully just move forward. This latest shooting in shaw is a non event and should be regarded as such. The cop was 100% justified in his shooting of the criminal, from I have read.

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PostOct 16, 2014#492

St.Louis definitely gets squatted on not only by the media but by it's own resident's. Sometimes I'm guilty of that myself out of frustration. I know theres a lot of good going on and the bad can certainly overshadow anything good happening. I'll go on to say i personally feel St.Louis outside of Detroit gets disrespected more than any other city in this country. I see post from folks from all over who have just trashed St.Louis cause they feel its the best thing to do to fit in with others. Not liking a city because the baseball fans are very supportive and passionate of their hometown team is just flat out absurd furthermore to suggest St.Louis is the most segregated city is flat out bias. I do agree we're still pretty far segregated but most of America outside of those few cities that are international cities are just as segregated if not more. What about Seattle Portland Pittsburgh Kansas City Birmingham Memphis Cleveland to name a few. At the end St.Louis will be stronger than what it is today and tomorrow and from this month moving forward. It's not all doom and gloom here as some may suggest. Everything happens for a reason

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PostOct 16, 2014#493

RedOctober wrote:At the end St.Louis will be stronger than what it is today and tomorrow and from this month moving forward. It's not all doom and gloom here as some may suggest. Everything happens for a reason
Something I've thought about for years now: "How will things truly get better?"

I can't come up with a good answer. I love the city, I want to see it flourish, I want to see a true renaissance. I want to see downtown office space have serious growth. I think this is key for downtown.

So, not a loaded question here, and not directed at only you (RedOctober), but would be interested to learn something I don't know and help me feel more optimistic about things, downtown specifically: "How will things actually improve?"

I've lived downtown since the summer of 2008, but putting down real roots has been a little hard for me b/c I'm not just not seeing how things are really going to improve. I think the best hope I have right now for real improvement are:
  • Hope local business leaders feel that a vibrant downtown is good for them, pull together and make something happen.
  • I hear Millennials like urban areas, hope they fill it droves similar to how previous generations filled the suburbs.
  • The startup scene (or some positive business scene) hits a grand slam and we get some serious positive momentum going on downtown.
These are far from sure things in my humble opinion. So what am I missing? I'd love to be convinced, cause I'd like to hang around and see a more vibrant downtown.

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PostOct 16, 2014#494

A combination of those 3 would create significant growth. 2 are happening and should reach a tipping point hopefully in the near future. Commitment from the business community is still sorely lacking.

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PostOct 16, 2014#495

terence d wrote:
RedOctober wrote:At the end St.Louis will be stronger than what it is today and tomorrow and from this month moving forward. It's not all doom and gloom here as some may suggest. Everything happens for a reason
Something I've thought about for years now: "How will things truly get better?"

I can't come up with a good answer. I love the city, I want to see it flourish, I want to see a true renaissance. I want to see downtown office space have serious growth. I think this is key for downtown.

So, not a loaded question here, and not directed at only you (RedOctober), but would be interested to learn something I don't know and help me feel more optimistic about things, downtown specifically: "How will things actually improve?"

I've lived downtown since the summer of 2008, but putting down real roots has been a little hard for me b/c I'm not just not seeing how things are really going to improve. I think the best hope I have right now for real improvement are:
  • Hope local business leaders feel that a vibrant downtown is good for them, pull together and make something happen.
  • I hear Millennials like urban areas, hope they fill it droves similar to how previous generations filled the suburbs.
  • The startup scene (or some positive business scene) hits a grand slam and we get some serious positive momentum going on downtown.
These are far from sure things in my humble opinion. So what am I missing? I'd love to be convinced, cause I'd like to hang around and see a more vibrant downtown.
If you'd lived in downtown since the late 1990s, you'd have seen the great changes along the central corridor. Downtown looked like a movie set after filming is done in the late 90s. Today, There are tens of thousands of professional class people who live and/or work, shop, socialize in central neighborhoods of St. Louis that simply weren't there in the late 90s. 2008 is not long enough ago to see the differences. Everything is relative. There are no absolutes in human economics.

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PostOct 17, 2014#496

Washington Avenue Restaurant Group Sounding Warning About Lack of Business

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/ ... -business/

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PostOct 17, 2014#497

Yeah if you noticed ive only started posting on this forum about 5 or 6 months ago, but ive lurked for almost 10 years. This story is the reason i started posting. As a loft owner/dweller what ive seen on washington is very worrisome. I can tell these business are teetering. And the spaces that have already left are not being filled in. I dont completely blame BPV but its not helping. I dont really know whats going to happen/help the situation

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PostOct 17, 2014#498

bigmclargehuge wrote:Yeah if you noticed ive only started posting on this forum about 5 or 6 months ago, but ive lurked for almost 10 years. This story is the reason i started posting. As a loft owner/dweller what ive seen on washington is very worrisome. I can tell these business are teetering. And the spaces that have already left are not being filled in. I dont completely blame BPV but its not helping. I dont really know whats going to happen/help the situation
Downtown needs more jobs simple.

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PostOct 17, 2014#499

downtown2007 wrote:Washington Avenue Restaurant Group Sounding Warning About Lack of Business

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/ ... -business/
The article talks a lot about loss of daytime business, which I would have thought would not be affected as much by BPV.

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PostOct 17, 2014#500

Redbrickcity wrote:
bigmclargehuge wrote:Yeah if you noticed ive only started posting on this forum about 5 or 6 months ago, but ive lurked for almost 10 years. This story is the reason i started posting. As a loft owner/dweller what ive seen on washington is very worrisome. I can tell these business are teetering. And the spaces that have already left are not being filled in. I dont completely blame BPV but its not helping. I dont really know whats going to happen/help the situation
Downtown needs more jobs simple.
Or more residents.

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