urbanSTL

downtown2007 wrote:

Redbrickcity wrote:

bigmclargehuge wrote:Yeah if you noticed ive only started posting on this forum about 5 or 6 months ago, but ive lurked for almost 10 years. This story is the reason i started posting. As a loft owner/dweller what ive seen on washington is very worrisome. I can tell these business are teetering. And the spaces that have already left are not being filled in. I dont completely blame BPV but its not helping. I dont really know whats going to happen/help the situation

Downtown needs more jobs simple.

Or more residents.

true with the arcade building and Webster U that is when I think downtown street life would start to turn around and BTW space architects tweeted a pic of a restaurant they are working on that would be downtown.

Does anyone else think that this BPV boom is just a honeymoon phase? It hasn't even been open a year yet. Once the novelty wears off I suspect business will start trickling back to Wash Ave. again. I mean, hell, how long can an venue that's basically a bar version of West County Center hold people's attention?

I think BPV has tremendous staying power. But that the extent of it will depend on how they build out the rest of the site. If it stays what it is today I think interest will wane, but over time.

West County Center (is that the same thing as Westport Plaza?) seems to have had a good run, and it wasn't next to Busch Stadium, or in the tourist/visitor/entertainment center of the region.

$45m per month!?!? Thats an interesting claim.

For BPV to do $45M a month, every place (each restaurant/bar) there would have to be packed with 1500 people for 8 hours a day and each spending on average $10 an hour...

Downtown has come a very long ways from when i was a kid. I'll always remember Woolworth's being our family meeting point. We still have a long ways to go. There's so much that needs to be done downtown like reconnecting locals with it but thats always a tough sell. Theres so much history that most St.Louisan's don't even know how great this city was and how far it has fallen or what this beautiful city can become. St.Louis is its own self destructor kind of like when people decide to get all that plastic surgery to hide those blemish's why not love you for you and if people don't love you for you then they can just go away cause there will always be that person or many who will love you for you. Most St.Louisan's have a love hate relationship with it there's thing to be desired and there's things to be least desired. I think whats important to not only downtown but all of the city is bridging the divide which is Delmar BLVD its a full face but cut in half one part blemished the other part not so much. Both have their story.

First off the city is in terrible need of better leadership however I'm not sure who can lead this city to a renaissance i'm personally not a big Slay supporter. Has he done some things yes but i completely feel like a lot more can be done.

2 as many stated jobs. Downtown has lost literally half of it's job and probably more.

3 New construction the lack there of hurts downtown in every way not every company wants to be in a 1800s early 1900s or late 1900s office building nor does every new resident or current resident want be in a loft etc construction of new apartments will go along ways.

4 Making downtown streets attractively inviting and pedestrian friendly also reconnecting those streets as well opening them up to 2 way traffic is essential and getting rid of the ugly barricades not only in downtown but all over the city for that matter returning St.Louis's street grid back to what it once was is also important.

5 be aggressive on crime in act enforce curfews not only in downtown but in all of the city specially on kids and teens with the recent shootings downtown just rub people the wrong way and with locals already feeling downtown is dangerous gives them every bit of reasoning to assume anything less of it also with current residents gives them every reason to not want to call downtown home.

6 Bring history back to downtown like for instance give downtown street signs a big upgrade in uniqueness as well in returning all street names to their originality albeit they be french this will give locals a more sense of knowledge of their very own city.

7 give small business's a decent tax break that will entice them downtown and welcome them here i wouldn't mind giving them a 5- 10 year tax break to certain small business's.

8 advertise downtown as and is the premier place to do business in all of St.Louis even if you have to go up against Clayton so be it from my knowledge i believe Downtown is the "Original Downtown" not Clayton.

9 Bring retail back to downtown thats very important theres a lack of it and believe if they come people will too like for instance drug store, department store,national restaurants as should be welcomed.

10 Make downtown unique attractive beautiful friendly safe clean diverse fun and lastly the epicenter of all of St.Louis. Theres a lot more i could say but i'll leave at that .

I have never seen downtown St. Louis busier, or whiter, than on the first weekend of the Ferguson protests. Many use downtown differently than they did in the past, but they use it.

I reformatted RedOctober's post to improve the readability.

I think the most important item on terence d's earlier post is.... The business leaders and political leaders in this region need to figure out that having a healthy downtown is in their best long term interests. And, they need to start making monetary as well as political investment choices that support that happening.... Even though those choices may be sub-optimal from a personal short term perspective.

My fear is that these leaders have concluded that Saint Louis is a lost cause and they have decided either....To just milk the region for as long as it works for them and then move to greener pastures. ...Or... Clayton is going to be the future center of the region and that will work out just fine for them and the region in the long term.

vollum wrote:I think the most important item on Red October's earlier post is.... The business leaders and political leaders in this region need to figure out that having a healthy downtown is in their best long term interests. And, they need to start making monetary as well as political investment choices that support that happening.... Even though those choices may be sub-optimal from a personal short term perspective.

My fear is that these leaders have concluded that Saint Louis is a lost cause and they have decided either....To just milk the region for as long as it works for them and then move to greener pastures. ...Or... Clayton is going to be the future center of the region and that will work out just fine for them and the region in the long term.

I'm thinking its a function of the leadership in both business and politics in the area still are of the mindset of the white flight era and a product of that. So it would make sense their views in that prism. Also they are very static in their views and more concerned about the "status quo" than anything else.

The thing is there are two "outsider groups" that appeared locally that may change up the metric, the young adult crowd and the new business crowd with a sizable transplant aspect or at least those who don't have the parochial worldview. They have a different mindset than the "authorities" in power. Recent events have shown that the massive failings of the former group and could push the latter group into a greater role.

The issue with downtown and the region in general in some ways is as much a social infrastructure issue than anything.

imperialmog wrote:I'm thinking its a function of the leadership in both business and politics in the area still are of the mindset of the white flight era and a product of that. So it would make sense their views in that prism. Also they are very static in their views and more concerned about the "status quo" than anything else.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

debaliviere wrote:

imperialmog wrote:I'm thinking its a function of the leadership in both business and politics in the area still are of the mindset of the white flight era and a product of that. So it would make sense their views in that prism. Also they are very static in their views and more concerned about the "status quo" than anything else.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

This is why I noticed there is a huge generation gap on this with the cutoff being those born before or after approximately 1980 or so. The views of the powers that be are of the older generation which is reflected in development and transportation policies. Its hard to change people's views on the urban core if they already are wary of it, and I've seen such views calcify even harder recently.

Also there is the political and partisan views on development and transportation, mainly due to a strong correlation between ideology of someone and the population density of where they live. So parties would tilt development a certain way to play into that.

The hurdle with downtown is the mindset of those in power and many in the region, once the power shift occurs it will be much easier since its basically rolling a ball uphill so far due to the hurdles due to mindset. I see a change coming, and it may be happening sooner now since the failures of those in power are more obvious.

Why do you say that "recent events have shown that the massive failings" of young adults? Young adults are the core of the renaissance of central St. Louis. Middle and professional class young adults, that is.

^Damn...Busted



Well im here now to offer just enough useless insight and stupid gifs to not get banned

MatthewHall wrote:Why do you say that "recent events have shown that the massive failings" of young adults? Young adults are the core of the renaissance of central St. Louis. Middle and professional class young adults, that is.

May have misstyped.. I was speaking the massive failings are those of the existing power structure. Young adults are on the outside of that. The issue is that the young adults might come into power more as a result of things, and also more of a voice from transplants. Though with transplants I am wondering on their take on things, especially since many aspects involve the social and institutional structure of the region.

Isn't with downtown development, is to make sure one area does not negatively impact another? Is it more important to concentrate development in one area to critical mass before going to another section?

^ The City put significant resources/support behind the Arcade-Wright building (I think LCRA actually owned it) and with that out of the way I think its a great question of what could be a focus next..... the Jefferson Arms is a vital building but we also desperately need to something with the devastated RRX/Mercantile/Lasalle Building area; I swear zombies come out at night there.

"How will things truly get better" "How will things actually improve"

Along with all the reasons RW cited (which are closer to reality), I'm a strong believer in significant mass transit investments benefitting downtown. Any Metrolink expansion or streetcar project will continue to improve the residential, retail, and office appeal of DT.

I don't