urbanSTL

It’s so emblematic of the defeatism that runs rampant through the thoughts of St. Louisans. It requires incredibly low civic self-esteem to advocate demolishing 2 million square feet of Class A (which will cost tens of millions) entirely on the tax payer’s dime just to “start over”.

The ONLY reason people live in StL is because we have capital (buildings) for them to use. That’s it. And we’ve been destroying our capital stock for nearly 100 years to catastrophic effect. Why keep making the mistakes of the idiots who ran this city (into the ground) during the 20th century?

^Yep, that thought process is a huge part of what holds us back. I can recall speaking to some friends in KC about 10 years ago. They used to tell me how jealous they are of STL and the deep level of pride we have being from here. The pride, the Cards 'STL' hats, the shirts are everywhere when the Cards fans came to KC. 

I think the riots and terrible PR in the national media really bruised our egos. I get so p-ssed off when I am traveling for work and a coworker is trashing STL to people from out of town. "Go to a Cards game at your own risk. You'll get shot" kind of BS comes out of their mouths as they wear a Blues or Cards shirt and pridefully boast "I'm from St. Louis". We've got to find a way as a region to unite and spew pride again. We've lost that in recent years and its hurting us. 

Now, do I think we have problems, yes. Are they going to get fixed by people standing on the sidelines doing nothing, no!

^ ^^ I have to think that POV is held by a minority of mainly middle-aged to older adults? I really feel a different vibe from those 40 and under with respect to our fair town and it feels like the negativity which prevailed among previous generations isn't as prevalent there. 

And I agree, advocating for tearing down the former SBC Tower is silly.  Someone will repurpose it, this may take time because of the unprecedented pandemic which is still impacting office vacancies. Don't know if it will be converted to residential, but I wouldn't mind that at all. I'd love to see DT filled with condos and apartments that can take advantage of all the nearby entertainment options.

pdm_ad wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

^ ^^ I have to think that POV is held by a minority of mainly middle-aged to older adults? I really feel a different vibe from those 40 and under with respect to our fair town and it feels like the negativity which prevailed among previous generations isn't as prevalent there. 

I don't know, I know a lot of younger people who talk poorly about STL despite being proud of being from here. It's not that they hate STL, they actually love it, just that they're completely pessimistic about things getting better. When you ask them what could be better, though, it mostly just comes down to STL not being Chicago or NYC. 

I think that there’s just a lot of pessimism everywhere, nowadays. While STL may have more possibly than other areas, I can say I’ve witnessed plenty of pessimism from GenZ and Millennials in plenty of cities. I don’t even necessarily always think it’s because of the cities they live in, but perhaps broader economic conditions, fatalism over climate change, war, disinformation and partisanship, etc.

I also grew up in Los Angeles, and I can certainly say there’s a lot of warranted pessimism there too. They’ve had tons of crime, soaring housing prices, etc.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is that our local pessimism is a problem, but also perhaps not super unique and maybe even spurred by macro level issues to some extent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^ Our pessimism more so stems from a County vs. City mentality. The "I would never step foot in that sh-thole City and get murdered" attitude from non-City folks is a real drag on our efforts to promote regional cooperation. Is the City mismanaged.... YES, for decades, but at the same time, metro residents keep running away (to St. Charles and outer-rim counties) from the City instead of trying to make it better. That is no way to grow. 

Some good perspective from Brian. Not that national issues are easily solved, but I think a lot of St. Louisans could stand to learn that most of our negative trends are national problems, not just because "St. Louis is backward and sucks" or whatever. 

I feel like even Dogtown B&R's point overstates how local this problem is. When I was living in Philadelphia I would meet suburban folks who were deathly scared of the city, would recommend the nightlife in far-off suburbs. Though luckily for them over us is they have more immigrants coming in to replace the white flight. 

It's a problem everywhere, just check out the comment section on any local news facebook page. Looks just like what we have here. 

Even thriving cities like Seattle have their own gangs of suburban boomers talking about how libtards ruined their city, there isn't a place to park, and how also it's a warzone.

I currently live in Tampa, which is seeing the amount of development in one year that St. Louis sees in a decade. I would say that there is a great deal of pessimism amongst native Floridians, it just manifests in a different way. For example, in Tampa the complaints are more about rapid cost of living increases, substandard public infrastructure, development killing local identity (which Tampa barely had anyway), homelessness and traffic. Tampa is relatively safe area, because poverty is kind of spread around. There is no Northside in Tampa, even their rough neighborhoods would make the average St. Louisan laugh. What I will say is that public officials in the Tampa region are way more efficient than in St. Louis. Everything is pretty much handled at the county level, which takes some of the crazier politics of basic decision making and let's development proliferate without much resistance. St. Louis would benefit greatly from either A) blowing up the county and city governments and merging into one unigov or B) accepting the city back into the county and taking away a lot of power from local governments. If St. Louis would do either of those our region would be much better off.

^ Couldn't agree more, with your analysis. Local politics here are so nonsensical! It is unacceptable, embarrassing and needs to change. Politicians here are all talk, as they do not want to give up power over their small piece of the pie. STL could be a powerful force if we had one government working in the same direction. I know this is the wrong thread, but is there any movement anywhere on consolidation or is this dead in the water at this time?

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

^ Our pessimism more so stems from a County vs. City mentality. The "I would never step foot in that sh-thole City and get murdered" attitude from non-City folks is a real drag on our efforts to promote regional cooperation. Is the City mismanaged.... YES, for decades, but at the same time, metro residents keep running away (to St. Charles and outer-rim counties) from the City instead of trying to make it better. That is no way to grow. 

Ironically (I think) for the county residents who use city mismanagement as an excuse to oppose consolidation is that with the county being 3 to 3 1/2 times the population of the city, resident of what is currently the county would have the majority say in choosing leadership/management for the consolidated entity (assuming 1 person = 1 vote)

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

^ Couldn't agree more, with your analysis. Local politics here are so nonsensical! It is unacceptable, embarrassing and needs to change. Politicians here are all talk, as they do not want to give up power over their small piece of the pie. STL could be a powerful force if we had one government working in the same direction. I know this is the wrong thread, but is there any movement anywhere on consolidation or is this dead in the water at this time?

St. Louis currently has the infrastructure to easily handle the growth some of these sunbelt cities struggle with. When I come back to visit it's obvious that St. Louis was designed to be a much larger metropolitan area, especially the city. What I find kind of sad is the state of our infrastructure. Way too much money has been spent building newer infrastructure on the fringes of the region and that has left most of the infrastructure in St. Louis City and County in poor shape. The state of the streetscapes in the famed Central Corridor leaves a lot to be desired. One thing I can say about newer Sunbelt cities is that they actually get it when it comes to having a much better presentation in their urban core. No way does Denver, Nashville, or Charlotte let their downtowns look the way Downtown St. Louis does from a pure aesthetic point. All the streets downtown should basically have the Washington Avenue treatment. I'm sure fixing that would attract a lot more investment and visitors. 

Here, here. I don’t understand how neighbourhood associations, the city and other stakeholders look at Wash Ave, Euclid, South Grand, Cherokee, etc and don’t fall over themselves to build the same steerscape asap along all our commercial corridors.

^ My two cents is that yes the county ironically would be better off if the city itself was brought back into the county.   However, the bigger issue for the county and how I see it when living and owning a home in Shrewsbury is most people don't think of county govt,  Most country residents are thinking truly local, local whether it be Shrewsbury, Affton, U city, to Chesterfield to the other odd 90 muni's.   

The city, if they can keep seeing gains in safety & health, keep central corridor momentum from stalling, rebuild basic infrastructure & improve service,  and find ways to help public school district is a decent position to find a path for growth IMO.   At the moment, city being a county within itself helped immensely in landing some much needed Federal funds to work with.     I also think that the city being a stand alone county also has independence with some willing partners in MoDOT and GRG to upgrade some infrastructure in a very urban way.   MoDOT won't advocate freeway removal but believe their is some desire to change up some interchanges, unleash some property back to city and develop blvd instead of raceways on state designated roads within the city (non-freeways).   

Could off base but downtown does have an opportunity to continue to evolve and progress as it current govt make up stands.   Yes, it would be better with a lot less regional governance but I also feel that city not in a bad position considering how many muni's and fragmentation exists outside city.   

^^^I think the City just allocated a large amount of cash to infrastructure, but I have no clue how much of this money will get spent in the right places. I think the City has to get back to basics fixing bridges, roads, curbs, and basic aesthetics. Man, some paint on train bridges and over gang graffiti would be a cheap and easy fix to spruce up some areas. Fix or demo buildings beyond repair along major highways. There is a nasty abandoned building right along 44 past Jefferson. Why is this building not demo'd or fixed? Why is the City not aggressive. Along I70, at least fix the buildings visible from the highway. What a complete embarrassment for passers buy on a major interstate to see this decay. Regular trash pick up and pothole repair. I mean we are talking basic sh-t that is not getting done. I know there are manpower shortages, but come-on! It is embarrassing and unacceptable. 

^ List of projects from that approved bill from yesterday 

^ That is a nice list. I would guess street patch-work and pothole repair is already allocated for. That is a huge issue. Some streets look like they are 3rd world around the City. 

There needs to be mass resident clean-up - fix-up days in City. Sort of like the events MODOT and Charlie Brennan have been getting behind. This may be happening on a small scale,  but it would be cool to see residents take the messes into their own hands and clean up on a larger scale. We need to instill pride back into our neighborhoods. This needs to be a regular event. 

dweebe wrote:More pictures of the damage inside Reign.

https://www.kmov.com/2022/04/19/new-pho ... arly-400k/

That place was a virus of its own for Downtown! I personally know a few business owners on Washington and their revenues went up some by 20% which is a lot. Place is destroyed so its going to take a while to get it back to what it was and bring new a tenant. Owner needs a better requirement process to avoid this again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

There is a nasty abandoned building right along 44 past Jefferson. 

Do you mean 1724 California? The taxes haven't been paid 2016-21, so I'd think it will go to tax sale soon.

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

^ That is a nice list. I would guess street patch-work and pothole repair is already allocated for. That is a huge issue. Some streets look like they are 3rd world around the City. 

There needs to be mass resident clean-up - fix-up days in City. Sort of like the events MODOT and Charlie Brennan have been getting behind. This may be happening on a small scale,  but it would be cool to see residents take the messes into their own hands and clean up on a larger scale. We need to instill pride back into our neighborhoods. This needs to be a regular event. 

Potholes and basic maintenance stuff is in the funded 2022 capital improvements plan
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... -29-67.pdf

quincunx wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

Apr 19, 2022

There is a nasty abandoned building right along 44 past Jefferson. 

Do you mean 1724 California? The taxes haven't been paid 2016-21, so I'd think it will go to tax sale soon.

Going off topic, yeah, I reached out to Ingrassia on that one, got in touch with the 6th Ward Neighborhood Improvement Specialist

"It has been on several demolition 'wish lists' from my office to the police department, to no avail.  Currently it is under notice through the building division, and I have asked the building inspector to refer the case to Housing court.  I also plan to contact the Assessor's office to see if it has been on the sheriffs sale lists.  It may be that it is on that list, but no one wants to bid on it because of the physical condition.  It is also on the Vacant Building Initiative list, which means the owner is fined every 6 months for not 'maintaining vacant' property.  Combined with the Forestry department's bills for cutting the weeds every year, there is likely a really big lien against the property."

That was in January once I noticed the foundation starting to disappear.  Owner certainly has not paid taxes in years, doesn't give a sh*t, and no one wants to buy it, apparently, which is shocking.  There's a ton of momentum in the Gate.  But I did not see it on the tax sale for yesterday.

" It may be that it is on that list, but no one wants to bid on it because of the physical condition." this doesn't make sense. If no one wants to buy it, it goes to the LRA.

There are four more tax sales scheduled this year.

That's one where I'm almost rooting for the brick thieves to come level