^I wish more buildings did this downtown.
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Few have recently including city hall and the building across from schnucks.
They do look nice! There should be like an ordinance to light the building that would make Washington, Locust, and Olive more attractive. Somehow it makes the building look nicer Idk.dbInSouthCity wrote:Few have recently including city hall and the building across from schnucks.
I don’t mind it in my building.
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Wow, small addition made a huge difference for not only the building but the vibe of tucker as a whole.
Is there no discussion on tearing down the derelict garage and replacing it with something new? I could have sworn it was structurally condemned.
Is there no discussion on tearing down the derelict garage and replacing it with something new? I could have sworn it was structurally condemned.
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Court ordered fix was mandated and $2m spent. Than lawsuits happened and somehow it landed in the City’s lap.
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That would be great, when I saw they put the Explore St. Louis signs in front of the windows I figured it was going to be years before anything happens
Didn't they not pay their property taxes and let it go to the city?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Dec 23, 2021Court ordered fix was mandated and $2m spent. Than lawsuits happened and somehow it landed in the City’s lap.
Ok. Just came back from Princeton, NJ! If their little downtown is not one of the most walkable places in the country I have no idea what is…
Stores popping, a lot of people walking and making the little downtown thrive. Looks just like Germany! It was just awesome.
Stopped in Downtown Columbus, Ohio and saw their new MLS Stadium Downtown and it looks very very nice. There was a new Skyscraper almost completed and and a few 4-1’s and 3-1’s apartments. Looks like city is thriving.
Last stop Downtown Cincinnati yesterday. Bengals were in town and holy cow! Cincinnati has changed a lot! For better. Also across the river on the KY side at the hill after the bridge a whole bunch of new developments facing Downtown Cincinnati.
My whole point with this post is I envy these three cities as their Downtowns are thriving at a very visible pace. What are they doing that we’re not?
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Stores popping, a lot of people walking and making the little downtown thrive. Looks just like Germany! It was just awesome.
Stopped in Downtown Columbus, Ohio and saw their new MLS Stadium Downtown and it looks very very nice. There was a new Skyscraper almost completed and and a few 4-1’s and 3-1’s apartments. Looks like city is thriving.
Last stop Downtown Cincinnati yesterday. Bengals were in town and holy cow! Cincinnati has changed a lot! For better. Also across the river on the KY side at the hill after the bridge a whole bunch of new developments facing Downtown Cincinnati.
My whole point with this post is I envy these three cities as their Downtowns are thriving at a very visible pace. What are they doing that we’re not?
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^ princeton is a small, wealthy college town. there's no useful comparison to be drawn between princeton and st. louis. and honestly i wasn't that impressed with their "downtown," which is basically just a small main-street-like commercial district across the street from the university.
Princeton is a village that has one street with a few restaurants and bars and little more. There are way better examples of walkability in the US. To be honest, I'd say that even downtown St. Charles is more impressive than Princeton.
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I think Cincinnati has a business culture that not stuck in the suburbs like its the 1970s. AKA. Companies care and want to be downtownJJ Taino wrote: ↑Jan 03, 2022Ok. Just came back from Princeton, NJ! If their little downtown is not one of the most walkable places in the country I have no idea what is…
Stores popping, a lot of people walking and making the little downtown thrive. Looks just like Germany! It was just awesome.
Stopped in Downtown Columbus, Ohio and saw their new MLS Stadium Downtown and it looks very very nice. There was a new Skyscraper almost completed and and a few 4-1’s and 3-1’s apartments. Looks like city is thriving.
Last stop Downtown Cincinnati yesterday. Bengals were in town and holy cow! Cincinnati has changed a lot! For better. Also across the river on the KY side at the hill after the bridge a whole bunch of new developments facing Downtown Cincinnati.
My whole point with this post is I envy these three cities as their Downtowns are thriving at a very visible pace. What are they doing that we’re not?
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Also, none of those places have multiple very spread out CBDs like we do in STL.
Just read this:
https://www.kmov.com/news/it-was-shocki ... 78dc2.html
Won’t even comment as all I get most of the time are excuses. Been all over the country and DT STL is beautiful but its also the most desolated Ghost Town DT I’ve been to!
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https://www.kmov.com/news/it-was-shocki ... 78dc2.html
Won’t even comment as all I get most of the time are excuses. Been all over the country and DT STL is beautiful but its also the most desolated Ghost Town DT I’ve been to!
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JJ Taino wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2022Just read this:
https://www.kmov.com/news/it-was-shocki ... 78dc2.html
Won’t even comment as all I get most of the time are excuses. Been all over the country and DT STL is beautiful but its also the most desolated Ghost Town DT I’ve been to!
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Thread about my experience in St. Louis a couple months back. A lot of people agreed, but there are a lot of St. Louis apologists. Downtown St. Louis is a joke. The neighborhoods impressed me way more. The infrastructure in much of the region is third rate at best. St. Louis is a beautiful historic city with a lot of unrealized potential, but a lot of locals just don't get and really trash up the place. Law enforcement is also very weak. There was stuff happening that would get you immediately pulled over in a place like Tampa or many other cities. It's almost like the cops are afraid of the criminals or have some vested interest in the city being out or control. I literally can't think of a downtown in America where criminal gangs run traffic lights and shoot automatic pistols in the air in 2022. What is St. Louis doing wrong?
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I don’t go downtown much but I’ve been to downtowns all over the place that would kill to have the Arch, City Musuem, Union Station and 2 pro sports teams and a 3rd on the way and maybe 4th (XFL). Those things there alone bring millions of people to downtown in any given year. And it has like 9,000 residents per square mile.JJ Taino wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2022Just read this:
https://www.kmov.com/news/it-was-shocki ... 78dc2.html
Won’t even comment as all I get most of the time are excuses. Been all over the country and DT STL is beautiful but its also the most desolated Ghost Town DT I’ve been to!
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I get what you’re saying! I own a property DTW. But when there’s no games our DT (as I own property) is a not at par with most largest Downtowns in the nation. We started 2022 very very very wrong. Remember good news will never be published and only the bad ones are shown nationwide. We must do something! A new business just lost thousands of dollars (main reason a lot of businesses won’t open DT), a person was found dead, and there’s the video showing how thugs are shooting on NYE. Not even up! Shooting pointing forward if a person was crossing the block would have ended up looking like sponge bob.UrbanPlanner2022 wrote:I don’t go downtown much but I’ve been to downtowns all over the place that would kill to have the Arch, City Musuem, Union Station and 2 pro sports teams and a 3rd on the way and maybe 4th (XFL). Those things there alone bring millions of people to downtown in any given year. And it has like 9,000 residents per square mile.JJ Taino wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2022Just read this:
https://www.kmov.com/news/it-was-shocki ... 78dc2.html
Won’t even comment as all I get most of the time are excuses. Been all over the country and DT STL is beautiful but its also the most desolated Ghost Town DT I’ve been to!
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This is just my PO. Most if not all major central districts (DT’s) have police officers walking, riding bikes, patrolling the area. I’ve never ever seen all those three in one day. Specially walking police officers and I’ve owned my apartment for almost a year now.
I don’t want DT STL defenders telling me all the good thing about the city! I already know the good side of STL. What we need is all of us to accept the problem and do something about it.
I’ve noticed we do a lot of talking from our home comfort but don’t really get together to combat the bad!
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I personally don't think downtown St. Louis is anywhere near as bad as a lot of St. Louisans make it out to be.
No, it's not perfect - sometimes, in fact, it's downright ugly with blighted buildings taking up entire city blocks, with too many gap-tooth surface parking lots in our streetscapes, with dirty parking garages that effortlessly suck life off our downtown streets and blow it out to the neighborhoods and suburban municipalities out west, with a highway that chops up and divides the city from one of its greatest assets, both now and historically - its own riverfront.
But I think there is plenty of reason for hope. I know every urban expert says that pro stadiums do nothing to actually activate and grow cities, but I do feel that the new MLS stadium is going to help do that in downtown St. Louis, if for no other reason than the stadium is not an isolated development. Union Station, the Jefferson Connector, NGA, and other significant developments in Midtown such as Foundry and Armory, are or will coincide with this stadium. Butler Brothers, one of those empty, blighted buildings taking up an entire block, is slated for rehabilitation only a few blocks away. New construction will be coming to 18th & Washington, also only a few blocks away. And then you also have infrastructure changes that may or may not encourage more development.
What stinks is that development in St. Louis is slowly bleeding into downtown whereas in a lot of other metros also seeing urban improvement, we're seeing the opposite - development bleeding out of downtown.
The Central Corridor seems to be merging together, but not fast enough for our liking. I do think that is going to speed up, but there are probably some things that the city can do to help speed it along. It makes too much sense to me for St. Louis to fix the Grand & Forest Park Ave. intersection, then reconfigure the layout of the roads just east of that intersection and seamlessly merge Forest Park Ave. into Market. Then run BRT down the thing, from the Old Courthouse to the Central West End - or beyond if your heart desires. There are other things St. Louis can and should be doing, but I think that should be one of the first.
No, it's not perfect - sometimes, in fact, it's downright ugly with blighted buildings taking up entire city blocks, with too many gap-tooth surface parking lots in our streetscapes, with dirty parking garages that effortlessly suck life off our downtown streets and blow it out to the neighborhoods and suburban municipalities out west, with a highway that chops up and divides the city from one of its greatest assets, both now and historically - its own riverfront.
But I think there is plenty of reason for hope. I know every urban expert says that pro stadiums do nothing to actually activate and grow cities, but I do feel that the new MLS stadium is going to help do that in downtown St. Louis, if for no other reason than the stadium is not an isolated development. Union Station, the Jefferson Connector, NGA, and other significant developments in Midtown such as Foundry and Armory, are or will coincide with this stadium. Butler Brothers, one of those empty, blighted buildings taking up an entire block, is slated for rehabilitation only a few blocks away. New construction will be coming to 18th & Washington, also only a few blocks away. And then you also have infrastructure changes that may or may not encourage more development.
What stinks is that development in St. Louis is slowly bleeding into downtown whereas in a lot of other metros also seeing urban improvement, we're seeing the opposite - development bleeding out of downtown.
The Central Corridor seems to be merging together, but not fast enough for our liking. I do think that is going to speed up, but there are probably some things that the city can do to help speed it along. It makes too much sense to me for St. Louis to fix the Grand & Forest Park Ave. intersection, then reconfigure the layout of the roads just east of that intersection and seamlessly merge Forest Park Ave. into Market. Then run BRT down the thing, from the Old Courthouse to the Central West End - or beyond if your heart desires. There are other things St. Louis can and should be doing, but I think that should be one of the first.
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Appreciate the post, Goat. But cue the STL downtown defenders in 3,2,1…….
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There's plenty to dislike about downtown St. Louis.
I mentioned several things in my post above... blighted buildings, dead space, soul-sucking parking garages, and highways that are treacherous to vibrancy and development - but then you also have confusing one-way streets, hideous concrete barriers to slow drag racing, an abysmal lack of synergy between downtown's "corners" (BPV, Wash. Ave., Laclede's Landing, etc.), absolute disconnection between downtown itself and any surrounding neighborhood in any direction, a dystopian land just across the river from our historic bridge, countless frosted glass windows on downtown buildings, too many buildings with a purpose but no street activation, and I'm sure we could all come up with quite a few more reasons why the place completely sucks.
Hey, guy! - You totally forgot to mention crime... and the perception of crime... and the root causes of crime... and the consequences of crime; and how they're all in our super-subpar downtown that - completely - sucks.
And yet I would say that I still have reason to believe that downtown has a ton of reason for hope. I mentioned the projects nearby the soccer stadium, but then you also have new-build proposals on Spruce near Busch, an apartment complex being fixed up across from Busch, and an entire neighborhood revamp of Laclede's Landing, plus so much more.
I believe that the success of Midtown is going to find its way to Downtown. I also believe it can't and won't happen fast enough to satisfy the naysayers in St. Louis.
I mentioned several things in my post above... blighted buildings, dead space, soul-sucking parking garages, and highways that are treacherous to vibrancy and development - but then you also have confusing one-way streets, hideous concrete barriers to slow drag racing, an abysmal lack of synergy between downtown's "corners" (BPV, Wash. Ave., Laclede's Landing, etc.), absolute disconnection between downtown itself and any surrounding neighborhood in any direction, a dystopian land just across the river from our historic bridge, countless frosted glass windows on downtown buildings, too many buildings with a purpose but no street activation, and I'm sure we could all come up with quite a few more reasons why the place completely sucks.
Hey, guy! - You totally forgot to mention crime... and the perception of crime... and the root causes of crime... and the consequences of crime; and how they're all in our super-subpar downtown that - completely - sucks.
And yet I would say that I still have reason to believe that downtown has a ton of reason for hope. I mentioned the projects nearby the soccer stadium, but then you also have new-build proposals on Spruce near Busch, an apartment complex being fixed up across from Busch, and an entire neighborhood revamp of Laclede's Landing, plus so much more.
I believe that the success of Midtown is going to find its way to Downtown. I also believe it can't and won't happen fast enough to satisfy the naysayers in St. Louis.
We need this! This a way to drop our 20%+ vacancy problem. This is how you attract people to the core!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/underused- ... lewebshare
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/underused- ... lewebshare
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You must be new here. If downtown STL hasn’t been doing that since the early 2000s we’d have 50% office vacancy.JJ Taino wrote: ↑Jan 04, 2022We need this! This a way to drop our 20%+ vacancy problem. This is how you attract people to the core!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/underused- ... lewebshare
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I think for midtown, the FPP/Grand intersection obviously needs to be rebuilt. Locust St should be a vibrant college town strip feeding into Grand Center with student apartments, fun bars, shops, concert venues, etc. It has the bones for that, it just needs people with a vision to make it happen. I also think Harris-Stowe’s campus needs to be urbanized and have less wasted space.
As for downtown, the streets and sidewalks need to be fixed and the ugly parking garages and surface lots need to be replaced. If there isn’t demand to replace them with large mixed use buildings than we should build townhomes on some of those lots.
I also think the new Jefferson exit should be the main entrance into downtown from I-64. We don’t need all of those little ramps around Enterprise Center and Busch Stadium. They are a major obstacle in making that area vibrant. If they were town down and replaced with mixed use buildings that had bars and live music, that area could truly thrive. And if we could connect the area south of Busch stadium to downtown, Chouteau’s landing and Soulard we could easily be a sports and entertainment destination on par or better than Nashville and New Orleans.
I’ve always wondered why it was so easy to tear down St. Louis build giant highways thru downtown, but it’s so hard to rebuild it the way everyone knows it should be built to live up to its potential?
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As for downtown, the streets and sidewalks need to be fixed and the ugly parking garages and surface lots need to be replaced. If there isn’t demand to replace them with large mixed use buildings than we should build townhomes on some of those lots.
I also think the new Jefferson exit should be the main entrance into downtown from I-64. We don’t need all of those little ramps around Enterprise Center and Busch Stadium. They are a major obstacle in making that area vibrant. If they were town down and replaced with mixed use buildings that had bars and live music, that area could truly thrive. And if we could connect the area south of Busch stadium to downtown, Chouteau’s landing and Soulard we could easily be a sports and entertainment destination on par or better than Nashville and New Orleans.
I’ve always wondered why it was so easy to tear down St. Louis build giant highways thru downtown, but it’s so hard to rebuild it the way everyone knows it should be built to live up to its potential?
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^ Well, it's always easier to tear something down than to build it up.
The frustrating thing about St. Louis is that you can see how the city was formerly great, how it was upper-tier city that mattered. Then the city carved itself up in self-hatred. It cut off its nose to spite its face. And then it cut off its ears... and then its tongue. And before long, the city hardly even resembled its former self, all because oh my god black people are moving in and their kids are going to our schools... and I saw one at the hardware store today.
It'd be interesting to see a St. Louis in which the Archgrounds weren't cleared, in which Mill Creek Valley wasn't cleared, in which the highways didn't steal up and eat some of the most prime real estate in town....
I'm in my early thirties and I'm resigned to the fact that if I ever do see a St. Louis that has fully corrected its erroneous past, I will be an old man unable to fully partake in its rejuvenation - or, more likely, already dead.
The frustrating thing about St. Louis is that you can see how the city was formerly great, how it was upper-tier city that mattered. Then the city carved itself up in self-hatred. It cut off its nose to spite its face. And then it cut off its ears... and then its tongue. And before long, the city hardly even resembled its former self, all because oh my god black people are moving in and their kids are going to our schools... and I saw one at the hardware store today.
It'd be interesting to see a St. Louis in which the Archgrounds weren't cleared, in which Mill Creek Valley wasn't cleared, in which the highways didn't steal up and eat some of the most prime real estate in town....
I'm in my early thirties and I'm resigned to the fact that if I ever do see a St. Louis that has fully corrected its erroneous past, I will be an old man unable to fully partake in its rejuvenation - or, more likely, already dead.