urbanSTL

I hope that the theater is a large AMC or Regal. Wehrenberg makes crap and doesn't maintain it. And sadly it's based outta STL.

survivor147 wrote:I hope that the theater is a large AMC or Regal. Wehrenberg makes crap and doesn't maintain it. And sadly it's based outta STL.

I agree. I'm not really impressed with Wehrenberg Theaters either. AMC operated its theater in Crestwood until just a few weeks ago, so I'd have to imagine that the developers would like to see them sign on to the new development. As far as I know, the only Regal Cinema in Greater St. Louis is at the Mills mall, so this location would be a logical expansion opportunity for them.

I thought this article was pretty much Crestwood in a nutshell:

Debating the Root Causes of Zombie Infrastructure

threeonefour wrote:

survivor147 wrote:I hope that the theater is a large AMC or Regal. Wehrenberg makes crap and doesn't maintain it. And sadly it's based outta STL.

I agree. I'm not really impressed with Wehrenberg Theaters either. AMC operated its theater in Crestwood until just a few weeks ago, so I'd have to imagine that the developers would like to see them sign on to the new development. As far as I know, the only Regal Cinema in Greater St. Louis is at the Mills mall, so this location would be a logical expansion opportunity for them.

And don't forget Great Escape, who has theaters in O'Fallon MO and the Gravois Bluffs complex.

-RBB

threeonefour wrote: I've already heard negative comments about Toby Keith's Bar and Grill, and frankly, I couldn't care less either way. As the only location in the area, it will bring people that wouldn't otherwise shop there. And while I'm not exactly a fan of his music, the hoosification of St. Louis started long before Toby Keith made his mark on the country music scene. I'm more offended by the fact that KMOV continues to air a local show featuring terrible modern country music paired with line dancing that went out of vogue everywhere else almost 20 years ago. So I won't rush to TK's, but its presence doesn't bother me either.

A Toby Keith restaurant is so fantastically white trash that I have to go. I thought it was a parody.

^I'm actually excited about a Toby Keith's! Hey, at least it's new and not another Applebee's.

^The bar at the one in Minneapolis is shaped like a guitar. So, there's that.

W T F ? ? ?

It isn't like Crestwood has a lot of alternatives to this mall. And it isn't like other developers are beating down their doors to remake it either.

I don't know exactly what the Board of Aldermen expects. The incentives they don't want to award until there are tenants are kind of necessary to attract tenants these days. Why would a tenant want to locate in a development that may not be built?

God, some fiefdoms in this region are so screwed up. Chesterfield is allowing construction of two outlet malls that will likely cannibalize each other and hurt sales at Chesterfield Mall. Meanwhile, Crestwood rejects a development plan that's probably the best hope yet for a major site that's nothing but hopeless in its present condition.

I especially like that the developers were willing to preserve the former Macy's/Famous-Barr/Vandervoort's building. Splitting into multiple spaces that take advantages of entrances on each level is a smart idea in my opinion. Besides, the traditional mall only works in certain locations, and it will never work in this location again.

I don't know what Crestwood leaders expect. Anyway, here's the P-D story:

Crestwood Rejects Plan for Mall

It's refreshing to see a town not fall all over itself to issue TIFs and set up special taxing district just to move retail around. We need more people with more wealth to support our oversaturation of retail space. We need to figure out how to make older built-out areas more attractive places to live. I realize that's really tough, and may require incentives used in a different way, but I think it must come first. The retail will follow.

KMOX wrote:Mayor Jeff Schlink said a majority of aldermen felt uncomfortable approving $26 million in tax increment financing (TIF) and an additional 2 percent of special taxing districts without the developer having a single tenant signed.

“Some people don’t think it’s going to be able to sustain itself over the life of a TIF,” he said.

Plans called for a grocery store and bowling alley. There are three grocery stores either across the street or down the block and Schlink said the town’s existing bowling alley is a landmark.

He added that the city isn’t interested in just moving dollars around.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/10/11/ ... velopment/

The District stalls-

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... Eo.twitter

Opponets want to know more about financing, if I were Crestwood, i would try to leverage some additional rooftops, take advantage that you are in one of the best school districts in the state and get some higher end condos and active senior in the mix, because there is no room left for single family residential anymore.

beer city wrote:The District stalls-

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... Eo.twitter

Opponets want to know more about financing, if I were Crestwood, i would try to leverage some additional rooftops, take advantage that you are in one of the best school districts in the state and get some higher end condos and active senior in the mix, because there is no room left for single family residential anymore.

Agree, St. Louis county muni's are racing to the bottom for the almight sales tax dollar deals with any developer who can sell a plan for a box store. The plus side, I think Crestwood leadership is expecting a much stronger, viable and sustainable plan for Crestwood Plaza for any tax deal is a better decision.

I don't what the difference is nor can I articulate it well at the moment, but you can't help notice that developers are taking a position of adding new residential units in the city over the county (excluding Wash U efforts to put more residential units in University CIty/Loop).

It's my understanding that the developer had said that if the city didn't step up to provide support (i.e. subsidy) that it would subdivide the mall and lease it to non-profits. In other words, it made a threat to sabotage the development so that the city would not receive sales tax money.

GJ Grewe (current Shrewsbury Wal-mart developer and owner of other parcels along Watson) did something similar years ago in Crestwood. He told the city that if it didn't provide public subsidy to pave his parking lot, buy new A/C units, pay clerk fees, and other mundane expenses, that he'd lease one of his shopping centers out to call center.

Hard to imagine anyone more loathsome than a commercial strip mall devloper.

bprop wrote:It's my understanding that the developer had said that if the city didn't step up to provide support (i.e. subsidy) that it would subdivide the mall and lease it to non-profits. In other words, it made a threat to sabotage the development so that the city would not receive sales tax money.

GJ Grewe (current Shrewsbury Wal-mart developer and owner of other parcels along Watson) did something similar years ago in Crestwood. He told the city that if it didn't provide public subsidy to pave his parking lot, buy new A/C units, pay clerk fees, and other mundane expenses, that he'd lease one of his shopping centers out to call center.

Hard to imagine anyone more loathsome than a commercial strip mall devloper.

In most cases, yes. But right now it's hard to imagine anyone more loathsome than Crestwood's mayor.

As I understand the history of this proposal, the mayor and the Crestwood Board of Aldermen were committed to providing public financing (TIF) to transform Crestwood Plaza. Apparently they were underwhelmed by Centrum's proposal because they wanted more retail, yet at the same time, they were worried about the development potentially cannibalizing similar businesses along Watson Road. (Never mind the fact that the same business owners along Watson Road undoubtedly had more business when Crestwood had three major department stores and over 150 specialty retailers and was a regional draw.)

Finally- the apparent straw that broke the camel's back was the objection that made the least sense. I can't remember the source, but I read that Crestwood and Centrum were $6 million apart on a $34 million TIF agreement. The mayor talked about fiscal responsibility when he refused to break the tie in the Board of Aldermen, but I don't see how $6 million makes a difference when the total public financing cost is $34 million. If this is such a risk and a potential boondoggle, it's okay to throw $28 million at it? If I was so convinced something was a complete waste of money, I wouldn't put $50 in instead of $100- I just wouldn't bother at all.

And apparently the mayor was convinced the developer was bluffing. Guess what- they weren't. They've spent about three years trying to redevelop this albatross. I can't blame them if they want to cut their losses. I've heard some suggest a clean slate development. That sounds good- but demolition alone would cost millions of dollars. If GJ Grewe expects public financing for asphalt and A/C units, you know no developer is going to foot the bill for demolition without public funding. And good luck finding an alternative that's better than what Centrum presented. Crestwood will never attract major retailers to this site again, because there is so much retail in Kirkwood, Fenton, and Sunset Hills, and it's really just ten minutes in either direction to West County Center or South County Center, both of which are apparently doing just fine in a pretty saturated market.

A former alderman said this decision was 'paralysis through analysis'. I couldn't agree more. Apparently the mayor thinks it's too big of a risk to take. I see years of a dead mall sitting there and rotting, producing no tax revenue for the city, and contributing to lower property values, and I think it's too big of a risk not to take.

Maybe City Museum could turn it into Suburb Land- an eclectic playground full of artifacts of suburbia. It could house the rumored TIF Museum that didn't go to BPV.

StlToday.com - Owners put Crestwood Court up for sale

As thousands flock to area malls for Black Friday sales this week, Crestwood Court — a popular destination for shoppers in south St. Louis County for decades — sits empty, its former tenants long gone. The mall’s last store, a LensCrafters, closed this fall.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 1ec8c.html

Does anyone think the new owners will do what needs to be done and bulldoze Crestwood to put it out of its misery once and for all? Does anyone want to speculate on who is speculating on the land?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... e633a.html

Auction brings in $3.6 million high bid for vacant Crestwood mall

I think you mean Cor Jesu. But yeah, that strategy sounds about right. Residential seems like the only game in town these days.

dweebe wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:Build all the senior and other housing projects rejected elsewhere in the county.... that would fill up the acreage quick!

Could you imagine if Larry Rice bought Crestwood Plaza?

You have a good concept for a compelling novel there

Like to see it as mixed use - keep the garages if not too far gone - redevelop the old Dillards as office (maybe med office?) 50 attached villas (fee simple condos), senior housing apartment, skilled care nursing facility, 100,000 sf retail - (small slip stores, not big box) 6 screen movie theater, introduce street grid, drop a square in the middle - BOOM! Downtown Crestwood

Like to see it as mixed use - keep the garages if not too far gone - redevelop the old Dillards as office (maybe med office?) 50 attached villas (fee simple condos), senior housing apartment, skilled care nursing facility, 100,000 sf retail - (small slip stores, not big box) 6 screen movie theater, introduce street grid, drop a square in the middle - BOOM! Downtown Crestwood

Oh please oh please oh please!!

I live in Crestwood and think that the whole idea of a Downtown Crestwood is spectacular, and sorely needed.

Hopefully something at least close to this is done!