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PostMay 08, 2008#51

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Or maybe they were offered a sweetheart deal too good to pass up.


I was being a bit facetious, of course. I'm guessing Fletcher's got a great lease deal that made opening a second location that much easier.



Ben1040- I like the idea about building a new movie theatre rather than revamping the old space. I've been to many movies at the Crestwood 10 simply because it's NOT Ronnie's (I usually have no problem with Ronnie's, but I won't go anywhere near it on a Friday night for obvious reasons).

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PostNov 03, 2011#52

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... tspace.php

Looks like Crestwood Court/Mall is slowly removing the last tenants (ArtSpace) and want to start construction next year. I am really curious to see the renderings of this place if it even exists yet. I also hope they bring the ArtSpace back into this new "thing". I'm skeptical about this happening but if it those I hope it turns into something similar to zona rosa in KC http://www.zonarosa.com/
but on much smaller scale with more oppertunity for local business.
I wonder how long it will take before the typical STL Paranoia about chain restaurants will start :)

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PostNov 04, 2011#53

Why not move them to Union Station?

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PostNov 04, 2011#54

downtown2007 wrote:Why not move them to Union Station?
good thought, another idea might be Railway Exchange building or maybe short lease in Arcade building.

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PostFeb 28, 2012#55

Jerry Berger reports on the redevelopment of Crestwood -

http://bergersbeat.com/crestwood-court- ... nt-center/

No plans yet, they say they want to keep part of it, also not sure about a bowling alley, Crestwood bowl is about 1000 feet from the plaza

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PostMar 03, 2012#56

beer city wrote:Jerry Berger reports on the redevelopment of Crestwood -

http://bergersbeat.com/crestwood-court- ... nt-center/

No plans yet, they say they want to keep part of it, also not sure about a bowling alley, Crestwood bowl is about 1000 feet from the plaza
Interesting. I visited an upscale movie theater like this in Dallas recently (AMC Grapevine 30) with big leather seats, decent food, etc. It was $18 for a ticket, but absolutely worth it. I could definitely use something like this in STL, especially since I'm boycotting STLCinemas these days.

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PostMar 03, 2012#57

jmstokes wrote:
beer city wrote:Jerry Berger reports on the redevelopment of Crestwood -

http://bergersbeat.com/crestwood-court- ... nt-center/

No plans yet, they say they want to keep part of it, also not sure about a bowling alley, Crestwood bowl is about 1000 feet from the plaza
Interesting. I visited an upscale movie theater like this in Dallas recently (AMC Grapevine 30) with big leather seats, decent food, etc. It was $18 for a ticket, but absolutely worth it. I could definitely use something like this in STL, especially since I'm boycotting STLCinemas these days.
Just curious, why the boycott?

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PostMar 04, 2012#58

^^ Sounds like what's going in downtown in the MX. I guess Crestwood wouldn't directly compete so much...

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PostMar 04, 2012#59

beer city wrote:...not sure about a bowling alley, Crestwood bowl is about 1000 feet from the plaza
If I had to guess, they're planning a bowling alley like Pin-Up or Flamingo. If so, then they won't be looking to attract the exact same crowd.

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PostMar 05, 2012#60

ImprovSTL wrote: Just curious, why the boycott?
Manager of the Chase site was absurdly rude to my wife and I last time we were there. I won't be back likely ever.

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PostMar 05, 2012#61

Alex Ihnen wrote:^^ Sounds like what's going in downtown in the MX. I guess Crestwood wouldn't directly compete so much...
I would hope that if this does get of the ground that Centrum did their research and understood their demographics and the city of Crestwood. First there is a lot of money in Sunset Hills, Crestwood, Kirkwood and so on. Actually if they bring in something original it will certainly bring customers from all over STL. But they have to be smart and tailor it accordingly. They should not be competing with any of the other malls or anything that will pop up downtown. I really hope for the City of Crestwood that something get's of the ground but at the same time they will have to be careful to approve anything before the see a concrete plan in place. Personally I do not trust them based on what I have heard from friends who are in the landing business. They have been talking about this for 3 years now. Funny enough they posted on their site that construction would begin early March and then I sent them an e-mail just asking if there is more information and 2 hours later they removed the statement from their site.

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PostJun 13, 2012#62

Developers reveal plans for Crestwood, no renderings, demo most of the mall, rebuild about one third of the existing SF. Sounds OK, I would have thought that some residential would have been good here, but not part of the package.

Only tenant named is Toby Kieths bar and grill, which, well, really blows.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 0f31a.html

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PostJun 13, 2012#63



Link to "The District at Crestwood" design brochure PDF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/97001247/The- ... t-Louis-MO

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PostJun 13, 2012#64

Alex Ihnen wrote:

Link to "The District at Crestwood" design brochure PDF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/97001247/The- ... t-Louis-MO
OK so there are renderings,

looks like they are developing the western portion only?

Also looks like they are not demoing quite as much, the structure reuses the north part of the mall, ironically the oldest part, and demolition of the 1984 addition

The sign on the old Famous building says "Whole Foods" maybe wishful thinking for the developer, but then again what do I know

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PostJun 13, 2012#65

so it's going to become an outdoor mall. again. another wasted opportunity.

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PostJun 13, 2012#66

Not enough parking.

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PostJun 14, 2012#67

Looks like Crestwood and Northwest Plaza are both doubling down on the big box model. When will the county learn that this is not the way to retain wealth and residents in the region? The drive to St. Charles county will continue until St. Louis County realizes it's new urban identity, that it's a built out county, and needs to focus on denser, mixed use redevelopment strategies. Why has nobody proposed this? These will basically be newer versions of an old mall strategy that failed. They will be back before 2020 asking for subsidies. No vision! No leadership!

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PostJun 14, 2012#68

bprop wrote:Not enough parking.
Took the words out of my mouth.

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PostJun 14, 2012#69

If you look closely, they have a drive-through TIF store in the rendering.

PostJun 14, 2012#70

btw, the mall is far from the only vacant property on Watson.... the area is becoming a retail ghost town.

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PostJun 14, 2012#71

roger wyoming II wrote:If you look closely, they have a drive-through TIF store in the rendering.
I really dislike having to get out of my car to receive a TIF.

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PostJun 14, 2012#72

I actually don't hate this plan.

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PostJun 14, 2012#73

^ Well, what can be said? It's owned by a mall/retail developer - if it's going to be basic retail then I'm not sure what else could be expected. We can hope for residential ala the Boulevard, I guess.

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PostJun 14, 2012#74

Exactly. Sure I'd love a dense mixed use development here but...

What we're getting seems to be a family oriented strip with an ice rink, cineplex, bowling alley. They're is also a grocer, gym, and country themed bar for the 'rents.' I'm sure it will draw well in SoCo.

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PostJun 14, 2012#75

This project interests me because this was "my" mall for most of my life. Overall, I think I like the redevelopment plans.

I'm impressed that the Macy's building will be reused. Most people here realize it was Famous-Barr prior to Macy's Inc's buyout of May Company in 2006. However, Famous-Barr became the second tenant of the building in 1969, and the original tenant was Vandervoort's, which operated there from 1957 until the late 1960s. So at least one major component of the mall's history will be preserved and upgraded. The Macy's building presents a great opportunity for mixed-use in my opinion, as two of the three levels have their own entrances because of the way the store was laid out, which was quite common in mall construction during the 1960s and 1970s.

I wish Dillard's could have been reused as well, but I have to believe plans for its demolition will move forward simply because the parking garage underneath it has been deteriorating for years. The part of the mall that originally featured Stix, Baer & Fuller, was built in 1967. Dillard's closed in 2007, but there were problems with the garage long before the store closed.

Another plus will be the movie theater, which I'm sure will have the latest technology and amenities, unlike the one behind the former Dillard's that closed recently.

I've already heard negative comments about Toby Keith's Bar and Grill, and frankly, I couldn't care less either way. As the only location in the area, it will bring people that wouldn't otherwise shop there. And while I'm not exactly a fan of his music, the hoosification of St. Louis started long before Toby Keith made his mark on the country music scene. I'm more offended by the fact that KMOV continues to air a local show featuring terrible modern country music paired with line dancing that went out of vogue everywhere else almost 20 years ago. So I won't rush to TK's, but its presence doesn't bother me either.

I do hope that at least some of the inline spaces will feature retail establishments. The renderings and site plans refer to restaurants, and there will be a grocer in the old Macy's, but the community needs a place to shop, not just to fatten up.

I realize it would be difficult if not completely impossible to attract an anchor like Dillard's or Macy's again to this site. But at least one additional junior anchor would be nice. I also wish Barnes & Noble would return to the area. There's no bookstore for miles around it, and B&N only went out of business in Crestwood due to a lease issue. Store management had plans to expand the toys and games section before the lease stalemate led to the store's closure.

An important thing to remember is that the area east of the former Dillard's is not part of the redevelopment plan. There may be a second phase of development, and perhaps with that we will see additional retail and perhaps office space. I thought I saw housing mentioned as a possible component of the second phase, so maybe there's still a chance for denser development on the east side of the Crestwood Plaza site.

While many of us would like to see denser development throughout, there must be a market for it first. The Richmond Heights area is the most desirable area for retailers, yet beyond The Boulevard, of which only one phase was built, where's the high-density development south of Clayton? The Promenade, Brentwood Pointe, and Brentwood Square are low-density, and if Menard's and/or IKEA get built, there will be more big boxes surrounded by acres of asphalt. I'd also like to see denser development at Crestwood Plaza, but this still represents a start and a step in the right direction.

And don't get me started on TIFs. Many of those that complain about Crestwood using TIFs live in other area communities that have had their fair share of TIF abuse. I think renovating a completely abandoned mall using TIF makes more sense than doing the same for a small but thriving mall in a prosperous community (West County Center, which arguably hastened Crestwood Plaza's demise), or blowing up a bluff (Gravois Bluffs, which didn't help Crestwood retail either), or building on a floodplain like Chesterfield Commons. Don't hate the player, hate the game. And until the game gets changed, which will probably never happen in our Balkanized suburbs, I think Crestwood should do whatever it takes to move this development forward.

(Sorry for the length. Like I said, this was "my" mall so I hope the redevelopment works.) :wink:

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