urbanSTL

LouLou,



I hear your concerns, but I think this project has adapted quite a bit. It went from Fortress Superblock to a more urban friendly set up. It's still not quite what it could be, but I think it's worlds better than the original designs from Liebeskind, which basically looked like they were putting a coliseum on the block.



Personally, I think the structures are open enough that the rest revolves around the businesses, customers and residents to make it inclusive.

Has anyone found any webcams for this project like for the casino and the new Stadium. That would be cool.

There is no reason to have a webcam on a site that is only under demolition, and not even being worked on every day. There will probably be one eventually.

You need to relax, Texan. Trust me, there are enough people on this forum who are interested in the project that new info will be posted here as soon as it's available. We don't miss much here.

Oh i'm not worrying, i'm just wondering. I understand that new info will be posted i just wonder if they will be putting up a webcam to see the project evolve after the demolition.

Well we are in March, construction should start soon which means they might actually accept a design for the highrises. YAY!!!!

St. Louis Texan wrote:Well we are in March, construction should start soon which means they might actually accept a design for the highrises. YAY!!!!

Hopefully, we hear an update on the project soon...

^ amen lets hope.

There has been a Bobcat on site for a while digging up dirt and asphalt in various spots. All the rodes in site have been closed off. Otherwise there has been no further work. We are only 8 days in to March, so there is still plenty of time for work to start.

MattnSTL wrote:There has been a Bobcat on site for a while digging up dirt and asphalt in various spots. All the rodes in site have been closed off. Otherwise there has been no further work. We are only 8 days in to March, so there is still plenty of time for work to start.

MattnSTL

Please, a Bobcat - what are they building a residential swimming pool? You would know by the size of the construction equipment if there was any actual construction activity on site and it will not be by a Bobcat. I spoke with Rollin Stanley the other day and he informed me that his department needs to approve any requested city street relocations or streets planned to be vacated - and as of last week his department had not even been approached with any such requests by TBD. This project may actually break ground in March, but it would probably be 2007. If they were close to actually putting a shovel in the ground, I think they would have their website filled with actual building plans/elevations and not the obvious vague schematic variety currently on TBD website.

^All I was doing was providing an update of what was going on at the site. I made no mention that actually work was going on. Believe me I would know if real construction was going on. I know more about construction than probably almost anyone on the forum. I have done my fair share of work in the field. Construction is what got me into urban planning in the first place. I would assume by what the Bobcat has done that they are doing some soil remediation work.



I do have a legit question. With the latest plans, the streets through the site are not actually being vacated. I have no idea what is going on with plannign or the site, but street vacations don't necesarilly say anything about what is going on. You seem to have a fascination with shooting down anything that has to do with the Bottle District. Do you have something against it?

MattnSTL,

The only thing I have against TBD is this thing has been dangling out there like a big fat carrot for several years now and they have made no significant progress - they do not even have a finalized plan to present to the city. Keep it on the drawing board until you have a clue what to build - the dramatic pedulum swings this project has gone through make the developers look like either novices or idiots. This reminds me of the downtown national aquarium we have been hearing about in St. Louis for the past 30 years - stop talking about it and build it...or if you can't build it, then stop talking about it. I feel the same way about TBD (again, this project is so schizophrenic it should be called the Cybill District). When this project first hit the papers I was very interested and excited about the potential for this development. And will each step backwards this project has taken I have lost interest and hope that it will ever be built. I personally think this project has lost the window of opportunity because all the major entertainment venues are going to be located at The Ballpark Village (because they are actually building something and it is closer to a majority of the activity in downtown St. Louis for a majority of the calendar year - especially during the nicer weather in St. Louis). I wouldn't be surprised if 2 of the 3 tenants TBD keeps parading out in public move to The Ballpark Village instead of waiting forever for this thing to come out of the ground. Think about it, Rawlings is a known as a baseball company and St. Louis is known as a baseball town - wouldn't it make sense to have the Rawlings All American Grille in The Ballpark Village instead of TBD? Look, I am all for downtown developments as long as they stand a chance to be successful - and with TBD I have absolutely no convidence that this project will ever realize it's true potential - it is very sad because they started out in the correct direction but appear to have done nothing but taken giant steps backward. I hope I am proven wrong - but I doubt it.

I also agree this project is fading fast and they need to move quick or it will eventually fall through.

Well they did bulldoze the site so its progress. We just have to be patient.

I also agree this project is fading fast and they need to move quick or it will eventually fall through.

Umm, I don't think you have to worry about that.



The website has been recently updated. www.bottledistrict.com







This project is almost completely funded and tenants have committed.



"fading away" - the press is really pumping this project and I just saw another story on KTVI last week.



In addition, the ground has been moving and clearing is being done.

matguy70 wrote:

I also agree this project is fading fast and they need to move quick or it will eventually fall through.

Umm, I don't think you have to worry about that.



The website has been recently updated. www.bottledistrict.com







This project is almost completely funded and tenants have committed.



"fading away" - the press is really pumping this project and I just saw another story on KTVI last week.



In addition, the ground has been moving and clearing is being done.

All the written press and TV coverage TBD has received lately has basically been regurgitated p.r. stories - a lot of flash and very little substance. It would be exciting if they would identify these committed tenants instead of listing the same three tenants at every press release. The only funding TBD has ever identified has been for land acquisition - this is a signal that banks do not have the most confidence in a project if they are not willing to commit funds for construction financing.



I am curious if anyone has been to the first facility Grand Prix Speedways was going to open in St. Charles - anyone visited and if so, what were your impressions? The reason I pose this question is I wonder if Grand Prix Speedways will truly be able to open another facility so quickly in TBD because of their financial investment to the original St. Charles facility.



I also wonder how long Sammy Hagar is going to wait to get this thing built before he loses interest and relocates his Cabo+Wabo Cantina to another St. Louis location (he first mentioned TBD during the opening of his Tahoe Wabo Cantina at Lake Tahoe in May 2004....Sammy is not getting any younger and he has an amazing fan base in St. Louis who have been chomping at the bit for a St. Louis Cantina for the past 2 years.



I appreciate your enthusiasm MattGuy70, but I do not share your confidence that the final project will look anything like the renderings currently being displayed on TBD website - time will tell.

^I believe the Grand Prix speedway was going in at Earth City.



This was on mayorslay.com today, I score this Jambalaya 1, optimists 0. However, I'm looking foward to you eating crow



Saturday, March 11, 2006

Development Updates



The Bottle District developers recently briefed the City development staff on their proposal for a traffic plan for that complex. During the course of this meeting we learned that working drawings are moving forward for the entire complex; that the development will include more of everything than was originally anticipated; and that actual construction is expected to begin this Fall. The Bottle District, with entertainment, restaurant, retail, office and residential space, will enhance the attractiveness/usefulness of America?s Center and complement the Pinnacle development to the east. (The Bottle District is scheduled to open in Fall 2007.)



Link

That's good news from the Mayor's blog.



I noticed today that the entire area has been escavated... and for the first time signs have been raised with the Bottle District Logo and information - "Coming Soon" as well as Bank Financing signs across from the Dome at Cass Avenue.

Maybe the actual delay is with their project increasing in size every time they redo the renderings. There is a lot more than renderings that go into pre-construction work. Ghazi is a proven developer, so I don't think there is too much worry that it will be built, It's just when it will start. How many other projects actually start when they are planned to start, much less within a year of being formally announced? I just don't get what the big worry and rush is from some people. If they are taking the time to make TBD better, a delay is fine by me.

MattnSTL wrote:Maybe the actual delay is with their project increasing in size every time they redo the renderings. There is a lot more than renderings that go into pre-construction work. Ghazi is a proven developer, so I don't think there is too much worry that it will be built, It's just when it will start. How many other projects actually start when they are planned to start, much less within a year of being formally announced? I just don't get what the big worry and rush is from some people. If they are taking the time to make TBD better, a delay is fine by me.

MattnSTL

Are you serious? If the project has "grown" with each of the sequential changes why haven't they updated their website to list these growth spurts (check the 1st listing by Xing for this thread and check the current website). Working with most of the developers in the St. Louis area since 1984, it has been my experience that these developers actually have a clue what they are going to build before they go public. IMO the rush should be the concern that all the first class entertainment and restaurant attractions will gravitate to The Ballpark Village since they can obviously be opened sooner and begin to cash-flow. The Pinnacle development has the potential of bringing some additional interest to the north portion of downtown, but I am still concerned about the connection with everything west of I-70. Has there been any additional discussion from Pinnacle concerning a tunnel or a bridge connection? In a perfect world TBD would have broken ground when they announced their project in early 2004, and Phase 1 of their development could have been completed by last March - this would have provided unbelievable national/regional coverage with The Final Four hosted at the Dome last year. From a marketing perspective this was a devastating loss - I am not saying it is unrecoverable, but they should have been planning backwards from a March 2005 opening (that would have provided amazing coverage for TBD and downtown in general). And now they are continually taking a backseat to The Ballpark Village - and this will be a challenge to overcome (a challenge in providing the appropriate tenant mix to insure long-term success for TBD). They just appear to be a ship without a rudder.



I do agree with you on one issue - if they are making TBD better, the delay will be well worth it (they do have a lot of ground to make up for all the steps backward this project has taken recently, but I would be all for the delay if the project truly is better). I agree with you on another point concerning Afshin Ghazi - he has developed some interesting projects and is probably a good fit for this project. I actually think it would probably be better for TBD if Ghazi just purchased the entire 16-acre campus and got this party started (there seems to be too many cooks in the kitchen and that is typically a formula for compromise instead of developing a strong vision). Thank you again for your optimism concerning this project - believe it or not I do wish nothing but the best for all downtown developments including TBD (I just think this project has serious problems at the leadership level). I will keep my fingers crossed.

I do agree with you about worrying about loss of momentum, etc. I think the only difference between the two of us is that I am a little more optomistic.



Pinnacle's plans for a tunnel linking the two sides of the highway have been approved. There is some mention in the Pinnacle thread.

MattnSTL wrote:I do agree with you about worrying about loss of momentum, etc. I think the only difference between the two of us is that I am a little more optomistic.



Pinnacle's plans for a tunnel linking the two sides of the highway have been approved. There is some mention in the Pinnacle thread.

Thank you for the Pinnacle link. Originally I was optimistic about TBD - maybe the future steps of these developers can gain it back.