urbanSTL

Xing wrote:I don't recall hearing about it being entirely wireless. Which I guess, is an expected luxury. Also, the site comments that there will be "inviting architecture." Interesting.



From the Bottle District Website

http://www.thebottledistrict.com



"The Bottle District is a one-of-a-kind destination for one-of-a-kind retailers. This $280 million development will house more than 900,000 square feet of entertainment, dining, shopping and more. The District will offer more than ample underground parking spaces. There will be 250+ contemporary residential units built in 2007 (click here for pre-sales). It also is located across the street from America?s Center, a convention center that hosts 400 conventions and 1.5 million people each year.



With inviting architecture, engaging commercial space and a completely wireless environment, The Bottle District is a dynamic new addition to downtown St. Louis."

Good Afternoon Xing and thank you for your fantastic computer generated images - well done. Unfortunately, I think your computer graphics are as close to reality as this project will ever be. The quote you listed from the current bd website related to the original images (from your initial post dated 11-26-2004). 2004 - that's how long these guys have been jerking around with this project, and they are still no closer to any significant construction activity on site. I wish they would have decided on a clear idea and a specific project direction before they came to market with their half-baked development. With the train wreck of images currently posted, TBD website looks more like a Rubik's cube than the website directed by anything resembling a cohesive master plan.



BTW, the only construction activity has been demolishing a precast concrete fence around the old Jefferson Smurfit site and they have taken down the old abandoned school building - they still have a warehouse full of McGuire storage material on site they wont take down (not much confidence shown here by the developer). They still have the long lead items of having public streets abandoned and public utilities relocated - good luck seeing any truly productive construction activity until summer/fall 2006. Even if this project never is built, atleast we have your great graphics to view and ponder what might have been. Thanks again xing!

Yes, construction begins in March. (Hopefully) I've seen laclede gas there disconnecting utilities. They haven't been there in a while, so I think that is done. Ameren really doesn't have anything to do. Water pipes I would assume will be done when the pipes are rerun for the new buildings. Most of the asphalt from parking lot's has been taken up in the last couple of weeks. I don't have any doubt it will be built. I don't think the amount of time it has taken to get going is any cause for concern. The new stadium took four years to get started, Park East about two, and the arch took about 30 years. The actual design is the only thing that makes me wonder.

Xing wrote:Construction likely begins in spring or summer.^

Yeah, but what year? Show me the money!

I totally disagree. Considering that a moving and storage magnate was planning all of this from the get-go, I'm not surprised that it has taken as long as it has. Now that they have an actual developer on board, I expect to see it take off.

MattnSTL wrote:Yes, construction begins in March. (Hopefully) I've seen laclede gas there disconnecting utilities. They haven't been there in a while, so I think that is done. Ameren really doesn't have anything to do. Water pipes I would assume will be done when the pipes are rerun for the new buildings. Most of the asphalt from parking lot's has been taken up in the last couple of weeks. I don't have any doubt it will be built. I don't think the amount of time it has taken to get going is any cause for concern. The new stadium took four years to get started, Park East about two, and the arch took about 30 years. The actual design is the only thing that makes me wonder.

I agree with you that the actual or eventual design is of paramount importance - I am all for delaying the start of this project as long as an appropriate design is the end result. There is another public utility that is a little more difficult to relocate - check the extent of the steam loop in this part of downtown. I will look forward to any true construction effort happening on this site, but I doubt it will be in March 2006.

^That's an interesting one that I forgot about. Anyone know if the steam loop does run through this spot.



BTW, which warehouse were you refering to? There is a small building at the south end of the site that appears to be less than 5000 sq. ft. There is also a building directly west of the Mcguire building that according to plans will come down. Although that building may not come down right away because it is in the place of later phases.



When I drove by today there was a Bobcat taking up asphalt and there was a track loader working on top of where the school was.

In addition to the steam loop and relocating the remaining public utilities, and going through the process of getting impacted public streets abandoned - there is also an issue of contaminated soil on this campus (according to a site map in Rollin Stanley's office). Has anyone seen any soil remediation occuring on this site? If not, this will definitely add to the construction delay. Is there a more current site plan available for review (the BD website has a site plan that does not reflect any of the renderings). Does anyone know if they are leaning toward the Libeskind "Freedom Tower" knock-off or is there any greater detail provided by the Ghazi architects?

If streets are run through the site like one plan shows, there may be no abandonment of streets. Ghazi has a site plan on their site, www.theghazicompany.com. Libeskind is still working on the design, so no one knows what it will look like.

MattnSTL wrote:If streets are run through the site like one plan shows, there may be no abandonment of streets. Ghazi has a site plan on their site, www.theghazicompany.com. Libeskind is still working on the design, so no one knows what it will look like.

Making an assumption here that the Ghazi site plan is the most current (a risky assumption to make I know), but their site plan has 3 streets interrupted (6th at Cole, Carr street east of 6th, and Biddle street west of 6th). The Ghazi plan also continues to indicate below grade parking which could also impact utilities and the steam loop. If Libeskind is still working on the design, when will we see something original from his studio?

that one looks nothing like the renderings either.

Xing wrote:A bit Similar?

Thanks Xing,



I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thought the Libeskind images were just knock-offs from the Freedom Tower design. I guess Mr. Libeskind thought the hayseeds in St. Louis don't need an innovative design - I'll just give them a re-tread. Thanks, but no thanks. Our city, this site and the potential of this project deserves a creative solution that is unique to St. Louis and this region. Maybe this is the reason this project is on their 4th architectural firm - maybe someday, someone will hit the nail on the head with an appropriate design. Thank you again Xing for posting these images.

Wow Libeskind must be kinda cheap, never changing the basic designs of his designs.

I mean those renderings look just like the BD renderings in a way.

jambalaya wrote:Maybe this is the reason this project is on their 4th architectural firm - maybe someday, someone will hit the nail on the head with an appropriate design.

I agree, but according to the most recent article, Lebiskind and Forum Studio are still the architects, although not doing the actual site layout.

MattnSTL wrote:

jambalaya wrote:Maybe this is the reason this project is on their 4th architectural firm - maybe someday, someone will hit the nail on the head with an appropriate design.

I agree, but according to the most recent article, Lebiskind and Forum Studio are still the architects, although not doing the actual site layout.

That scenario is beyond stupid - which may explain why this project appears to be running in quick sand.

Well, finally they have updated the website. Iv'e been waiting for something new since October.



I really won't satisfied on these projects until all three high rises are off the ground and on the 20th or 30th floor. By then they won't be able to stop the project (hopefully )

I really like the Libeskind design of the towers. Sure, they look similar, but they aren't identical to the Freedom Towers. (Besides, Xing says the FT design was changed and raises an excellent point as to Libeskind's possition on the FT in relation to the BD)

What struck me about the BD design was that I saw elements in the towers that to me incorporated subltle visual elements of the Arch...the tops curving in perhaps matching some point of the curvature in the Arch, the graphics on the sides mimicking shadows of the arch...does any one else see what I'm talking about or am I the only one who noticed this?

I noticed that too. That's what I really liked about them. The curves brought elements of the arch in, but didn't really copy it. They were still their own works.

To me the most interesting thing about this project is the way it's oriented on its site. It looks as though they've chosen to make the east side, facing Broadway and I-70, the "front" facade.



From a visibility and marketing standpoint, I can certainly understand this decision. At the same time, it means that the BD won't truly be woven into the remaining urban fabric of the near North Side.



If you're standing on the west side of 7th Street, what you'll see, sweeping from south to north, is some empty green space, the blank wall of a typical parking garage, a landscaped square and the back side of a concert hall. No retail storefronts! You'll be able to see the towers, of course, but except for the square, there won't be much that says Welcome! Come on in!



I don't want to be too critical, but the major weakness of this design is that it creates a "superblock" in an area of town that's already got other huge structures like the EJ Dome and Pinnacle's giant casino complex. The people who choose to live here will be downtown but they won't be in downtown, if you see what I'm getting at.