urbanSTL

I agree with you both. It's just that I believe this project won't absolutely and necessarily suffer from the faults we have pointed out. I just think the novelty of it will take it a long way, with or without design problems such as what we have noted.



Basic psychology? If urban-style developments had always been the most aesthetically pleasing to consumers, then we would not see such complacency surrounding suburban-style, auto-dependent, anti-pedestrian developments, since WWII and even to this day within our city.



Yes, I could see how glass storefronts would fare better than ones without glass. The bottom line is...many people don't consciously consider these design aspects, and, assuming the District attracts and retains exclusive, unique, and favorable tenants, coupled with its cutting-edge design, I think it could still be a success despite the flaws.

More information on the Bottle District Groundbreaking 09/27/05



WHAT:

Join us at the groundbreaking ceremony for The Bottle District, an entertainment district that will be erected across the street from The Edward Jones Dome in downtown St. Louis. The project will span 7 1/2 blocks and over 18 acres and will offer unique restaurants, entertainment, retail and residential in a completely pedestrian environment. Representatives from some of the planned tenants, such as Rawlings All American Grille, Cabo Wabo Cantina & Nightclub and Grand Prix Speedways will be on-hand.



WHO:

Mayor Francis Slay, City of St. Louis

Dan McGuire, CEO, BDP, LLC

Jim Cloar, President, Downtown St. Louis Partnership

Representatives from Cabo Wabo, Rawlings & GrandPrix Speedways



WHEN:

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 10:30 AM



WHERE:

The event will be on the lot at the corner of Broadway & Cole - just north of the Dome. Look for the Blue Bottle District Flag. Parking will be on the lot.



RSVP to mhb@thebottledistrict.com.

Basic psychology? If urban-style developments had always been the most aesthetically pleasing to consumers, then we would not see such complacency surrounding suburban-style, auto-dependent, anti-pedestrian developments, since WWII and even to this day within our city.

The move to the suburbs has had alot more behind it than cities being aesthetically pleasing or not. Cheap gas, the abundance of cars, peoples' general laziness(i.e. Obesity Rate), and intolerance of neighbors have alot more to do with it than convenience. Try visiting Dierburg's, The Shane Co., and Target in Brentwood in the same day. No one should consider getting in the car, getting through traffic, and parking 3 different times for 3 stores within 1/8 mile of each other convenient. Hopefully the same south county people you speak of will enjoy walking a few blocks around the city. I think the bottle district will be successfull, but outward facing stores that invite people and convenient connections to the rest of downtown would greatly improve peoples' experiences and remove the drive up, park, go in, drive away hassle that people falsely associate with convenience.

urbanstlouis wrote:

Representatives from Cabo Wabo, Rawlings & GrandPrix Speedways

HAAAAA--GAAAAARRRRR!!!!!!!!!!



WOOOO-HOOOOO

I took some pics of the site last Wednesday, and again yesterday. A warehouse has been demolished, and the site has been surrounded by concrete barriers.



9-14





















The Vess Bottle-











Neighboring Neighborhood Gardens, under renovation.





9-19

Thanks for the photos Matt. Regardless of the issues I have with connectivity to the street grid, this project is going to be a huge improvement over what is there now. I'm looking forward to it.

It's nice that we're really not losing anything for this project - those warehouses were fugly.

Some of those pics really make that area look like an urban wasteland. I can't wait till I start seeing towers rise there. From the perspective of some of those pics, it looks like a bit of a hike from the CBD.



I'm glad that this site has a large grocery store planned, but too bad it won't be more centrally located. On the plus side, a busy grocery store would help invigorate the district during off-peak hours.



I'm not concerned about the residential towers appearing isolated from the skyline, though. After all, hopefully we'll have a couple of towers go up on the landing (pinnacle) and that should make it appear little more cohesive. Besides, it's only a matter of time before more new development occurs on the empty lots North of the loft district.

BTW, where did you get that pic?

I never noticed this, but take a look at the area of Busch and around it, from the new Courthouse to the Pet Building, from Hwy 40 to Market, look how flat and low-rise everything is. That is one big HOLE in our downtown. And judging by the amount of space made available by knocking down Busch, I don't think 1200 res units will be a problem in 3-4 towers. That should help the skyline.



And yeah, with the BD mockup north of the dome in that pic, it really makes it look like the north side of DT will NEED some more mid/hi-rise development to keep the BD from being cast away from the rest of DT.

Hey, nice shot, XING. Thanks for posting it.



It looks like Ballpark Village may be our best chance to bring some balance to the skyline. If we can get a couple of good sized buildings there, then the South side of downtown would start to balance the North in all of those Postcard shots. A new tower on the lot just west of the Pet building would help too.



And for crying out loud, why can't we get some freaking BOATS on the river!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A cupple of comments about that picture. Thanks for doing it xing.



1. Yes the skyline is 'unbalanced' around the arch, but then again, when the arch was built it was realt that the southern edge of the downtown highrise area. And as we all know, downtown hasn't grown leaps and bounds between the time the arch was built and now. Take a look at any picture of downtown when the arch was being built and it will be clear that the southern end of the modern downtown didn't even extend this far. Yes, the new ballpark village towers might well really help with this balance, however, what will really fill it out is more work on some of the lowslung parking garages and parking lots in the area. (which area ll there because of the ballpark.

An intersting side note, is that for so long downtown has slowly been snaking southward toward highway 40. For the first time in a long time, it seems major work will be done to ballance the growth and pull some more of downtown back north.



2. If everything worked perfectly, the area south of the Eads bridge will haev three midrise towers along the water for the casino and condos. Secondly, there will be the large tower for the Pinnical casino. Thrid the towers with the bottle district. Maybe this is enough, maybe not, but I do worry that without more development these bottle district towers could look really odd being so far away from anything else. (yes i am thinking about the renisance center)

Here is the master plan from the Ghazi Company



http://www.theghazicompany.com/pdf/Bott ... ge_web.pdf

Interesting, all by 2008 they say. Whether i belive that or not, it is nice to see that the plan is ambitious. It really seems like they are trying to beat the Cards to the punch with the ballpark village.

<A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050927/cgtu011a.html">St. Louis' New Bottle District Breaks Ground</A>

Tuesday September 27, 1:00 pm ET



Eyeing Its 2007 Grand Opening, the $290-Million Restaurant/Retail/Entertainment Development Begins Construction



ST. LOUIS, Sept. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Officials from The Bottle District, members of St. Louis' business community, the Mayor of St. Louis and other City and State officials, attended groundbreaking ceremonies today for St. Louis' latest restaurant, retail and entertainment development project. Construction on The Bottle District is now officially underway. The construction schedule reflects the development's grand opening in 2007.



<A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050927/cgtu011a.html">>>> read more</A>

Hopefully, the excitement surrounding this project will not dissipate quickly. I think the success of the District is reliant upon all phases being completed. The high-rises are a must--both because they will make the District more of a neighborhood (even if self-contained...) and because their cutting-edge design will possibly attract visitors and raise the bar for new construction in St. Louis.

It was in today's Post that on October 11 U.S. Housing Secretary Jackson was going to be involved with the groundbreaking for the Cochran Gardens redevelopment. Cochran is the housing project next door to Neighborhood Gardens. According to them it will be similar to what was done at Blumeyer and Darst-Wehby. The near north side redevelopment might actually surprise even the skeptic in me with its attractiveness within the next few years.

I think it's great that the Bottle District and Ballpark Village are in direct competition.



For the first time since I can ever remember, two things downtown are trying to be better than the other. Competition will keep each one working hard for a reputation and this is a recipe for success.

I hope it's a success too, although there are risks. Union Station and St. Louis Centre opened within a few weeks of each other back in 1985, if I remember correctly. After the excitement faded a few years later, well... the results are plain to see, especially at STL Centre.



The long-term success of the BD will depend on its residential component, IMO. If that succeeds, it would be a massive boost and shift the emphasis in downtown residential from rehabs to new construction, which long term is where we need to be heading.

Niether Union Station nor St. Louis Centre included housing. They were designed to bring tourist and suburbanites into the city to shop, not to live. Remember, city living-especially downtown-was still tabu in St. Louis at that time. So comparing these two projects with the Bottle District plan is comparing apples and oranges.

Building things downtown (or anywhere in the city) to appeal to suburbanites is a waste of time and money. The Bottle District (and hopefully Ballpark Village) appeals to urbanites, not suburbanites, therefore luring locals who have left for the suburbs because there was no where else to go, urbanites who might want to move here and those who moved to other cities for such a lifestyle can finally find a truelly urban lifestyle in this project. Let's hope (and I have faith) that the Bottle District will be a catalyst for more such plans.