I know all of this stadium talk is a bit off-topic and, perhaps, an overzealous mode will step in, but I would like to add another suggestion. Obviously, for anyone who has ever been to a football game at the college or pro level knows that tailgating is a big part of the experience. I'd love to see a beer garden type of development by a football stadium as a way of pumping some of that tailgating money spent on beer and food from outside of the city limits into downtown. As long as the prices weren't ridiculous and if they could create a Mardi Gras type of atmosphere, without an overly corporate or overly policed environment, it could be a big success for downtown and the Rams gameday experience. The garden could also function on non-gamedays just as other beer garden projects that have been proposed on this forum would at other locations in the city. For instance, festivals could be held here.
JJCoolbean wrote:I know all of this stadium talk is a bit off-topic and, perhaps, an overzealous mode will step in, but I would like to add another suggestion. Obviously, for anyone who has ever been to a football game at the college or pro level knows that tailgating is a big part of the experience. I'd love to see a beer garden type of development by a football stadium as a way of pumping some of that tailgating money spent on beer and food from outside of the city limits into downtown. As long as the prices weren't ridiculous and if they could create a Mardi Gras type of atmosphere, without an overly corporate or overly policed environment, it could be a big success for downtown and the Rams gameday experience. The garden could also function on non-gamedays just as other beer garden projects that have been proposed on this forum would at other locations in the city. For instance, festivals could be held here.
Sounds great in theory, but even if you could get it built over the objections of the Puritans it would probably be ruined by hoosiers.
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Sounds great in theory, but even if you could get it built over the objections of the Puritans it would probably be ruined by hoosiers.
Yah...this past weekend I stepped out on my balcony (I live across the street from the Bottle District/Tailgating Haven) and looked down below and some guy was standing there with his son ...he was probably somewhere between 4 and 6 years old...urinating in the front yard of our place. I let him have it! Seriously...he's probably from some suburban subdivision and if I went and urinated in his front yard, I'm sure I'd have the police on me. I just could not believe he would teach his kid to do that in someone's front yard. I called him a f*cking idiot to his face, which I felt bad afterwards because it was in front of his son too, but come on now!
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Bastiat wrote:JJCoolbean wrote:Obviously, for anyone who has ever been to a football game at the college or pro level knows that tailgating is a big part of the experience. I'd love to see a beer garden type of development by a football stadium as a way of pumping some of that tailgating money spent on beer and food from outside of the city limits into downtown.
Sounds great in theory, but even if you could get it built over the objections of the Puritans it would probably be ruined by hoosiers.
I don't quite follow the "Puritans" reference. We're not talking about a opening a titty club downtown. A beer garden wouldn't be any different than what happens at any of the number of events held downtown. This is St. Louis, where beer is served at grade school sporting events, so liquor wouldn't be an issue at all. Maybe you are referring to my mention of Mardi Gras. I perhaps should have chosen another event as I didn't mean to suggest that boobs for beeds be part of the program. However, I wouldn't complain...
The public pissing that jmatthewmckee discussed would certainly be unacceptible, but I don't think "hoosiers" would be the issue, at least if we both share similar expectations. I don't see why a significant amount of trouble makers would show up for the tailgating experience of a beer garden if they don't show up for the tit fest that is Soulard Mardi Gras. Parking is relatively expensive downtown and Rams tickets aren't cheap and so I wouldn't expect many to spend that much money only to get arrested for starting trouble at the beer garden.
Now, if you are dismissing working-class people categorically as hoosiers because they don't wear the same designer clothes as you, then I believe you are being an elitest snob. I'll take the passion and atmosphere of the hoosiers at the Blues games at the old Arena over the bored PSL holders at current Rams games anyday. I imagine you are referring to trouble-makers and I agree that that is always something to be concerned about when large groups of people and alcohol are involved. I don't disagree with that at all.
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Just get Central Scrutinizer in on this latest discussion and he'll tell you all about "hoosiers" but whatever. I dont think "hoosiers" (in Scrutinizers definition) will ever be a problem concerning tailgaiting at the dome. I am only speculating but I would put money down that a large amount of people who go to Rams games are from south county and jefferson county (again, just going by scutinizer's stereotype of a "hoosier"). These are people who would not bat an eyelash at unitating in public (Ive been to parties in both south county and jeffco and know people like this) Im not saying all people from there are like that (I also know a person who lives in a million dollar mansion in Jeffco) but they will not be a "judgemental" bunch of people that were discussed. The "hoosiers" should not be anybody's worry when it comes to Rams games. They buy the tickets and they dont judge others. Only those yuppy party box holders do that.... haha.
Guys, let's see how long this forum can go without using the word "hoosier."
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wheelscomp wrote:Just get Central Scrutinizer in on this latest discussion and he'll tell you all about "hoosiers" but whatever. I dont think "hoosiers" (in Scrutinizers definition) will ever be a problem concerning tailgaiting at the dome. I am only speculating but I would put money down that a large amount of people who go to Rams games are from south county and jefferson county (again, just going by scutinizer's stereotype of a "hoosier"). These are people who would not bat an eyelash at unitating in public (Ive been to parties in both south county and jeffco and know people like this) Im not saying all people from there are like that (I also know a person who lives in a million dollar mansion in Jeffco) but they will not be a "judgemental" bunch of people that were discussed. The "hoosiers" should not be anybody's worry when it comes to Rams games. They buy the tickets and they dont judge others. Only those yuppy party box holders do that.... haha.
What on earth are you talking about?
JJCoolbean wrote:I know all of this stadium talk is a bit off-topic and, perhaps, an overzealous mode will step in, but I would like to add another suggestion. Obviously, for anyone who has ever been to a football game at the college or pro level knows that tailgating is a big part of the experience.
You are right about tailgating being a big part of the football "experience". I realize that people hate the idea of surface parking lots in the city, but if there's one place that I would support it, it would be on a portion of the Bottle District land near the stadium. Yeah it would be nice to have a Cabo Cantina there, but having an Arrowhead-sized parking lot for tailgating in the shadows of the dome would also be cool, and IMO, more practical than another drinking/shopping/eating district. Hell, if people want to drink/shop/eat before or after a Rams game, downtown and the landing are already within walking distance.
I don't think you will get very far with that idea around here. A parking lot that big would be a giant dead zone except for those 8 home games.
^
I would agree, but I don't see anything else really working there. A bar/shopping district? Do we need another one with the landing and downtown/BPV already within walking distance? More residential? I'd love to see a new tower, but is there even enough demand to fill Roberts', Skyhouse, and/or the BPV condos? More office space? I just don't see it.
If you put 30,000 parking spaces on a lot and charged $30 per car (the going rate at other football venues), you'd have $9 mil of revenue in one football season.
I don't think people should underestimate the benefits of being considered one of the best football tailgating cities. I had Chiefs season tickets for 17 years, and nearly every week we'd talk to people from outside the region who came just because they knew Arrowhead was one of the best tailgating venues. Lambeau is the same way. My buddy here at work is going to GB this weekend for a Packers game. He doesn't have any rooting interest, but he's heard it's a great place to get the true football experience. He'll stay in a hotel up there and spend money for food, a Packers t-shirt, etc. Why not try to make Rams football a destination for out of town visitors the way Cardinals baseball already is?
I would agree, but I don't see anything else really working there. A bar/shopping district? Do we need another one with the landing and downtown/BPV already within walking distance? More residential? I'd love to see a new tower, but is there even enough demand to fill Roberts', Skyhouse, and/or the BPV condos? More office space? I just don't see it.
If you put 30,000 parking spaces on a lot and charged $30 per car (the going rate at other football venues), you'd have $9 mil of revenue in one football season.
I don't think people should underestimate the benefits of being considered one of the best football tailgating cities. I had Chiefs season tickets for 17 years, and nearly every week we'd talk to people from outside the region who came just because they knew Arrowhead was one of the best tailgating venues. Lambeau is the same way. My buddy here at work is going to GB this weekend for a Packers game. He doesn't have any rooting interest, but he's heard it's a great place to get the true football experience. He'll stay in a hotel up there and spend money for food, a Packers t-shirt, etc. Why not try to make Rams football a destination for out of town visitors the way Cardinals baseball already is?
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Why not try to make Rams football a destination for out of town visitors the way Cardinals baseball already is?
Because after the plans St. Louis has been shown, that would be the second worst scenario possible, next to what's there right now. Arrowhead isn't in the same location relative to downtown KC that the Dome is in relation to STL, they are two totally different animals. This comparisson doesn't even make sense. I'm all for great tailgating, but that would be a huge disapointment compared to the plans that have allready been put in front of us. An Arrowhead size parking lot on this space would be the biggest urban disaster to ever take place.[/quote]
That parking lot idea is probably the worst thing I've ever heard on this board.
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What about that greenspace directly east of the dome (on the other side of Broadway)? Does that fill up on game day? I know they have a tent over there for game day events but I don't recall any major crowds over there (I could be mistaken though). My thought...with the Lumiere parking going up just on the other side of 70 and the underground tunnel with automated floors would, in my mind, enable people to park there, unpack their lawn chairs/portable grills/coolers/etc and do their thing in that park? I know that's not *quite* the tailgating experience, but it's an idea, eh?
Xing wrote:Guys, let's see how long this forum can go without using the word "hoosier."
Thank You!
If they built a stadium on the flood plain in East St. Louis, I wouldn't have a huge problem...but not where it is. Why can't St. Louis have a unique tailgating experience over places with massive parking lots? I've always liked the unique little spots that people have taken up over the years. Like certain areas of the landing, a small lot here, a small lot there.
^
For people familiar with downtown and the current construction schedules, it may be a bit easier to find a good tailgating spot/lot and make it a weekly tradition. Kind of like finding hidden treasure.
But for out-of-towners coming to the game, or even people coming from the suburbs, finding a spot to park and tailgate can be a hassle. Yeah, I know, why should we feel sorry for the poor suburbanites? Here's why...
If you google Rams tailgating or Edward Jones Dome tailgating, you get: a) Ramstailgating.com, which hasn't been updated since 8/05 because these Rams "fans" moved to San Diego and are now Chargers fans; b) an article from Sauce Magazine from 11/04; and c) johnnyroadtrip.com, who says that Rams tailgating is good in the grass lots between the dome and the landing. Isn't that now Lumiere Place? Pretty pathetic.
Someone mentioned that you can't compare tailgating at Arrowhead with the Dome. Well, if you had a huge tailgating lot like Arrowhead, together with the proximity to downtown that the dome has, you would get the best of both worlds as far as tailgating/pre & post-game partying goes. BTW, if you google Chiefs tailgating, you get this as your first option...
http://kansascity.about.com/od/sports/p ... ilgate.htm
Finally, yes, this pales in comparison and scope with what McGuire and Ghazi had previously proposed. But with the sale of part of the land to HRI, who has gone on record as saying they will not be part of TBD and that they bought in because it was simply a good investment, I don't know why everyone is still holding onto this dream of a big development on this land.
For people familiar with downtown and the current construction schedules, it may be a bit easier to find a good tailgating spot/lot and make it a weekly tradition. Kind of like finding hidden treasure.
But for out-of-towners coming to the game, or even people coming from the suburbs, finding a spot to park and tailgate can be a hassle. Yeah, I know, why should we feel sorry for the poor suburbanites? Here's why...
If you google Rams tailgating or Edward Jones Dome tailgating, you get: a) Ramstailgating.com, which hasn't been updated since 8/05 because these Rams "fans" moved to San Diego and are now Chargers fans; b) an article from Sauce Magazine from 11/04; and c) johnnyroadtrip.com, who says that Rams tailgating is good in the grass lots between the dome and the landing. Isn't that now Lumiere Place? Pretty pathetic.
Someone mentioned that you can't compare tailgating at Arrowhead with the Dome. Well, if you had a huge tailgating lot like Arrowhead, together with the proximity to downtown that the dome has, you would get the best of both worlds as far as tailgating/pre & post-game partying goes. BTW, if you google Chiefs tailgating, you get this as your first option...
http://kansascity.about.com/od/sports/p ... ilgate.htm
Finally, yes, this pales in comparison and scope with what McGuire and Ghazi had previously proposed. But with the sale of part of the land to HRI, who has gone on record as saying they will not be part of TBD and that they bought in because it was simply a good investment, I don't know why everyone is still holding onto this dream of a big development on this land.
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Framer wrote:Xing wrote:Guys, let's see how long this forum can go without using the word "hoosier."
Thank You!
I think it's more like how long can this forum go without discussing TBD project.
^ Thank you. Does anyone have new news on TBD, or is this project still in lingo over legal and internal squabbles.
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what internal squabbles were they having? not doubting, just wasn't aware.
clayco purchased all of the existing buildings on the site and will be doing the restoration of those buildings (sorry, you probably know this). everyone knows the land is too valuable for something not to happen, so i know it will. i don't see anything happening next year on it though, but that's just my personal opinion. i actually met with someone from mcguire recently and discussed my concern about their internal focus on 6th street...I really think they need to put the fronts on the exterior (ie 7th street and even broadway). I know Broadway isn't very pedestrian friendly now, but I think it's going to blow up within 10 years because north broadway has such a great stock of buildings. They're trying to attract suburban people to the city and the reason people come to the city is because of the urban setting. the way the last site plan showed the internal focus seems like such a suburban development. people like to be seen while they're doing their thing. that's why wash ave and the loop is so popular. 6th street isn't going to carry traffic, yet that's where the pedestrian flow will be. i don't see that being popular long term...because people will feel isolated. they seemed to be interested in my thoughts, but i can't believe they haven't already explored facing the stores outward. probably just trying to make me feel special
clayco purchased all of the existing buildings on the site and will be doing the restoration of those buildings (sorry, you probably know this). everyone knows the land is too valuable for something not to happen, so i know it will. i don't see anything happening next year on it though, but that's just my personal opinion. i actually met with someone from mcguire recently and discussed my concern about their internal focus on 6th street...I really think they need to put the fronts on the exterior (ie 7th street and even broadway). I know Broadway isn't very pedestrian friendly now, but I think it's going to blow up within 10 years because north broadway has such a great stock of buildings. They're trying to attract suburban people to the city and the reason people come to the city is because of the urban setting. the way the last site plan showed the internal focus seems like such a suburban development. people like to be seen while they're doing their thing. that's why wash ave and the loop is so popular. 6th street isn't going to carry traffic, yet that's where the pedestrian flow will be. i don't see that being popular long term...because people will feel isolated. they seemed to be interested in my thoughts, but i can't believe they haven't already explored facing the stores outward. probably just trying to make me feel special
^ I was just talking about the whole Pat Schaumann suing Dan McGuire and friends, and her husband being a circuit court judge bla bla bla etc...........
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Why do we need a parking lot? I do not give a sh*t about what google says about Ram's tailgaiting for out of towners. If we know what to do and have a blast who gives a sh*t?
Sorry for the lack of eloquence in that last post, I stand by the point though.
There is no TBD project anymore. Maybe in 5-10 years but it's dead now. Who cares? I think they should just turn the TBD area into greenspace and start building on the gateway mall.Downtown STL Fan wrote:Framer wrote:Xing wrote:Guys, let's see how long this forum can go without using the word "hoosier."
Thank You!
I think it's more like how long can this forum go without discussing TBD project.
As for the massive parking lot dude, get a friggin clue. The Packer's and Chief's stadiums (and lots) are in suburbia; not downtown. Space in downtowns are at a premium and must be used wisely. Taking such a huge chunk of space to be used only for 8 days is unwise to say the least. People tailgate in TBD area anyway. What's the point?
^ While I am sure the TBD project lives on in some form, given the real estate market combined with what is rumored to be a large residential neighborhood project proposed by Pinnacle adjacent to the Casino (read not divided by downtown by Cole and the Dome and not divided from the landing by I-70 and Broadway) and the competition from developments like Chouteau's Landing and the Ballpark Village, I am fine with the owners and developers sitting on this property for 5 or 7 years, refining their vision and increasing the possibilities that development on the site can take full advantage of the progress downtown had made.
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^ Where's the guy that kept telling us all that this was a go - no matter what we heard?
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