So this is the third or fourth time that I've seen Google speculated as a potential tenant for a St. Louis development. While I know it's mostly wishful thinking, is there any info that anyone has about them potentially looking for space in St. Louis? I think a trans-formative office project like this is almost tailor made for a company like Google. How awesome would it be to see a big giant Google sign along the top of the Armory from the upper deck of 64/40?shadrach wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2018I'm pretty sure that has more to do with google Adsense/keywords/predictive marketing etc. based on the word 'armory' and your location.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2018So very St. Louis/Fox News that I was forced to watch 5 seconds of an add for some kind of gun holster called "Urban Carry" before seeing the Armory video.
And I'll go with Gone Corporate's long-predicted Google as tenant.
The district masterplan is continuing to evolve. I've seen the updated plans and things have changed. Because this could be classified as "Phase 2" it was always expected to change. Most importantly, the Metro station and Grand haven't been forgotten in the new plan, they'll be very much a part of it still. But the future usages continue to bounce around on all uses but all have retail at the base. Greenstreet will decide on what gets built dependant on market conditions and how the Armory Phase 1 goes. Also, Ameren and their electric station is causing some problems for future development.
This is very cryptic, but it has to be.
This is very cryptic, but it has to be.
^^ I'm still think it is all in the realm of wishful thinking that Foundry, Armory and Iron Hill can all have retail in the mix. Especially if your argument is that people will drive in from county or metro east.
However, I wonder if Green Streets/Lawrence should look at the properties along Grand Ave as a Foundry phase III or IV development incorporating a full service tower hotel & the pedestrian crossover/trail extension strong enough to support small electric shuttle cart service for hotel patrons (inclimate wx, winter time, etc.). I go back to my Crestwood Plaza post and the multiple developments I can think of at the moment. Wonder if Armory and Foundry would be much stronger together if identified and marketed as such. But that is probably a big reach.
However, I wonder if Green Streets/Lawrence should look at the properties along Grand Ave as a Foundry phase III or IV development incorporating a full service tower hotel & the pedestrian crossover/trail extension strong enough to support small electric shuttle cart service for hotel patrons (inclimate wx, winter time, etc.). I go back to my Crestwood Plaza post and the multiple developments I can think of at the moment. Wonder if Armory and Foundry would be much stronger together if identified and marketed as such. But that is probably a big reach.
There are two new masterplans to my knowledge. One involves a tower of about 20 floors and the other involves some 5-8 story low-rise buildings. I was told there were others but I wasn’t shown.TCB wrote:^we still talking 15-20 story towers, or have those been scaled back?
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Give me the low rise density if it means more buildings.chriss752 wrote:There are two new masterplans to my knowledge. One involves a tower of about 20 floors and the other involves some 5-8 story low-rise buildings. I was told there were others but I wasn’t shown.TCB wrote:^we still talking 15-20 story towers, or have those been scaled back?
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I'd love to see a swath of 5-8 story buildings, with one 20 story tower emerging out of the middle of it.
It’s either 2 low rise or one high rise in the plans I saw. Nothing more. Both had a considerable amount of green space.SeattleNative wrote:Give me the low rise density if it means more buildings.chriss752 wrote:There are two new masterplans to my knowledge. One involves a tower of about 20 floors and the other involves some 5-8 story low-rise buildings. I was told there were others but I wasn’t shown.TCB wrote:^we still talking 15-20 story towers, or have those been scaled back?
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chriss752 wrote:It’s either 2 low rise or one high rise in the plans I saw. Nothing more. Both had a considerable amount of green space.SeattleNative wrote:Give me the low rise density if it means more buildings.chriss752 wrote: There are two new masterplans to my knowledge. One involves a tower of about 20 floors and the other involves some 5-8 story low-rise buildings. I was told there were others but I wasn’t shown.
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Then give me the 20 story building. It’ll make a much bigger impression.
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Interesting to think that their is a few developments that have floated or rendered a 15-20 story office building.
Believe you had Cortex East at one point rendered as such, Sansone rendering of such on their developable spot next to The Boulevards, and Armory Chris notes above. I think Centene has such in future phases or can easily spot one and sure BPV has few variations of such it can pull out of the rendering book to perspective clients. Just curious if their would be an anchor tenant out there to make it happen..
Believe you had Cortex East at one point rendered as such, Sansone rendering of such on their developable spot next to The Boulevards, and Armory Chris notes above. I think Centene has such in future phases or can easily spot one and sure BPV has few variations of such it can pull out of the rendering book to perspective clients. Just curious if their would be an anchor tenant out there to make it happen..
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I'd love to see a 20 story tower up against the highway.
What an impression it would make if you were driving east on 64/40 and had a 15-20 story tower up against the highway at Vandeventer with the Foundry development, and then just a few blocks down you had another just to the south of the highway near the Armory.
What an impression it would make if you were driving east on 64/40 and had a 15-20 story tower up against the highway at Vandeventer with the Foundry development, and then just a few blocks down you had another just to the south of the highway near the Armory.
The priority here for new construction (as with "Iron Hill") should be creating and establishing precedent for an inviting, bi-level streetscape and pedestrian connection along Grand. Whatever else they do here beyond the Armory rehab itself is much less likely to work if it is isolated from the activity of surrounding areas.
I would gladly give up 10 or more stories rising over the interstate if they can pull that off.
I would gladly give up 10 or more stories rising over the interstate if they can pull that off.
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Plus that nice tall building from the Sarah CommonsWhat an impression it would make if you were driving east on 64/40 and had a 15-20 story tower up against the highway at Vandeventer with the Foundry development, and then just a few blocks down you had another just to the south of the highway near the Armory.
The idea of a Foundry full service hotel tower on top of platform coming to same level as Grand Ave per as previously rendered or maybe massed for the Armory really makes sense to me. Located half way between SLU Campus/Grand & new hospital/SLU med school. Great freeway and transit access as well as centrally located. However, it would need to pull off a platform such that it offers street level interaction but also an at grade interaction with Grand Ave itself. I also think it makes much more sense if somehow the vision of a pedestrian, trail extension between Foundry and Armory can happen at same time.
Do I understand correctly that Green Streets brought in Koman to develop Chroma in Grove? If so, would it makes sense for Koman to get involve in Armory phase II?
Finally, what it be fair to say that Midas Hospitality is out after taking on their current Forest Park Ave hotel/Cortex Aloft projects?
Do I understand correctly that Green Streets brought in Koman to develop Chroma in Grove? If so, would it makes sense for Koman to get involve in Armory phase II?
Finally, what it be fair to say that Midas Hospitality is out after taking on their current Forest Park Ave hotel/Cortex Aloft projects?
CORTEX East another spot. I thought the rendered 15ish story office building rendered along Vande and next to trestle/Foundry was a great spot as well.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Plus that nice tall building from the Sarah CommonsWhat an impression it would make if you were driving east on 64/40 and had a 15-20 story tower up against the highway at Vandeventer with the Foundry development, and then just a few blocks down you had another just to the south of the highway near the Armory.
As per my previous post. I think an hotel tower as part of Armory development would be a great addition. Let everything else be mid rise and keep the office tower for Sarah Commons as GoHarvOrGoHome suggested, and or CORTEX East tower. Just one to break up the CORTEX elevations a bit. You don't want to go crazy with office towers because it will hurt downtown at some point to have that much office square footage come on line.
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I think the ideal concept would be to ramp up to Grand from the Armory block. This would require rethinking Bernard street entirely though. First of all, get rid of the 64 to Grand off ramp (this would be a difficult sell for some) and the 64 to Bernard ramp. That way you can essentially build and underground garages without actually digging in the ground. Ramping back down to ground level on the opposite side of Grand could open that side up for redevelopment with easily integrated below grade parking on all for corners of a Grand/Bernard intersection.dredger wrote: The idea of a Foundry full service hotel tower on top of platform coming to same level as Grand Ave per as previously rendered or maybe massed for the Armory really makes sense to me. Located half way between SLU Campus/Grand & new hospital/SLU med school. Great freeway and transit access as well as centrally located. However, it would need to pull off a platform such that it offers street level interaction but also an at grade interaction with Grand Ave itself. I also think it makes much more sense if somehow the vision of a pedestrian, trail extension between Foundry and Armory can happen at same time.
As a master plan i would say demo to Goodwill building as well and take Bernard all the way through to Vandeventer. I usually hate the idea of demoing big buildings but its the only way i see to really tie that area back to the grid. Spring Ave viaduct could help as well but i think opening Bernard is more effective.
The Ameren station does kind of suck though. Wish there was a way to get it out of there but i am guessing its pretty much permanent.
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What would the distance be between Sarah Commons and an Armory tower against the highway?
1/2 a mile?
That would be quite the advertisement for St. Louis' revitalization. In the past, I've heard many people point at the City Foundry and Armory sites as signs of St. Louis blight while driving them into downtown.
Drive them down that highway in 2021 and they'll be singing a totally different tune. The changes in this area, from 2013/14 (pre-IKEA) to 2021, are remarkable.
1/2 a mile?
That would be quite the advertisement for St. Louis' revitalization. In the past, I've heard many people point at the City Foundry and Armory sites as signs of St. Louis blight while driving them into downtown.
Drive them down that highway in 2021 and they'll be singing a totally different tune. The changes in this area, from 2013/14 (pre-IKEA) to 2021, are remarkable.
3500 feet.KansasCitian wrote: What would the distance be between Sarah Commons and an Armory tower against the highway?
1/2 a mile?
I've heard many people point at the stacked highway and the proximity of the lower / eastbound lanes of Hwy. 40 to the back door and windows of an operating factory and an "Armory", as "cool" examples of a dense, industrial city they didn't know existed in this part of the country, while driving them into downtown.KansasCitian wrote:
That would be quite the advertisement for St. Louis' revitalization. In the past, I've heard many people point at the City Foundry and Armory sites as signs of St. Louis blight while driving them into downtown.
Drive them down that highway in 2021 and they'll be singing a totally different tune. The changes in this area, from 2013/14 (pre-IKEA) to 2021, are remarkable.
^ Even as a kid I would love to ride the double decker through Midtown. The old industrial feel and old school infrastructure always made me feel like St. Louis was a big, bad city. Whenever I'm back in town it still always impressed at the urbanity of the central corridor, just way too many missing teeth and urban planning boondoggles.
There are plenty of examples out there of what to do with an immovable electrical substation in a mixed-use area. Lemons to lemonade and all that. One of my favorites (from Charlotte of all places). There are lots more pics in the link:STLEnginerd wrote:
The Ameren station does kind of suck though. Wish there was a way to get it out of there but i am guessing its pretty much permanent.
Duke Energy Illumination
Terraced buildings with green roofs are all the rage right now. I can't think of a more perfect site in the city for something like this. Conceptual examples for treatment of the future phase Armory development blocks adjacent to Grand:
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Inhabit - Bjarke Ingels Group, 79 & Park Stockholm Rendering Bjarke Ingels Group
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SeattlePi - Solterra, Esker Building Seattle Rendering Solterra
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Vancouver4Life - Shigeru Ban, Terrace House, Vancouver Rendering Shigeru Ban Architects
Quite a bit of parking could be incorporated into the base of an office or hotel building like this, built up against the Grand Viaduct wall, with hotel access, retail, and public space on top of the podium at the level of, and built seamlessly up to, the Grand sidewalk.
The west side of the building could then be terraced down to the level of the Metro station / Scott Ave. with retail at the base tying into the Armory retail. The terraces could even wrap around and incorporate the south end of the existing one-story building, all the way to Prospect. It should be possible to incorporate ADA compliant ramps (along with bike and pedestrian path) into terraces from Grand down to Scott or Prospect, depending on whether they have one, or two, blocks with which to work. It might be cheaper and more practical to put in a public access elevator as part of the garage for ADA reqmts., however.
I don't see any problems building up against the viaduct and Metro structure which can't be overcome, but for some reason the Green Street renderings show a large gap between them. I also don't see any reason why that I-64/40 Bernard Street off ramp can't disappear. Apparently Green Street thinks that is a possibility, since their renderings show a building on top of it.
Inhabit - Bjarke Ingels Group, 79 & Park Stockholm Rendering Bjarke Ingels Group
SeattlePi - Solterra, Esker Building Seattle Rendering Solterra
Vancouver4Life - Shigeru Ban, Terrace House, Vancouver Rendering Shigeru Ban Architects
Quite a bit of parking could be incorporated into the base of an office or hotel building like this, built up against the Grand Viaduct wall, with hotel access, retail, and public space on top of the podium at the level of, and built seamlessly up to, the Grand sidewalk.
The west side of the building could then be terraced down to the level of the Metro station / Scott Ave. with retail at the base tying into the Armory retail. The terraces could even wrap around and incorporate the south end of the existing one-story building, all the way to Prospect. It should be possible to incorporate ADA compliant ramps (along with bike and pedestrian path) into terraces from Grand down to Scott or Prospect, depending on whether they have one, or two, blocks with which to work. It might be cheaper and more practical to put in a public access elevator as part of the garage for ADA reqmts., however.
I don't see any problems building up against the viaduct and Metro structure which can't be overcome, but for some reason the Green Street renderings show a large gap between them. I also don't see any reason why that I-64/40 Bernard Street off ramp can't disappear. Apparently Green Street thinks that is a possibility, since their renderings show a building on top of it.
The listing for the office space portion of this has been pulled. I have been informed that the entire building is 100% pre-leased with one tenant, not Google, taking up 2/3rds of the space. Not sure when the announcement will be made but it could come sooner rather than later.
^ According to this link it's right around 160,000 sq ft:
https://www.armorydistrict.com/design#c ... fice-space
https://www.armorydistrict.com/design#c ... fice-space