urbanSTL

Ebsy wrote:Isn't it possible that this would then create a flurry of similar proposals in other cities designed to improve their image? I suppose being the first would have some benefits, but if it started a trend of cities creating "statistical cities" just to bump up their numbers, is that really the goal? Also, why would any of the organizations that produce these numbers even consider using the "statistical city?"

. It would not benefit other cities the way it does St Louis. If the lazy statisticians would just use consistent boundaries based on demographics rather than arbitrary political boundaries, they would be comparing apple and apples and we wouldn't have a ranking issue. Let every metro use the MSA boundaries, which the public assumes anyway when they say Detroit or St. Louis, and our ranking will show we are a lot safer than most "attractive" cities.

STL Public Radio - St. Louis County Executive Candidates Shy Away From Backing City-County Union

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st- ... unty-union

Finally...a constructive piece of journalism came out of this mess. What a stark contrast to that piece of s*** from The New Republic. In this article, there are so many good points, I don't know where to begin. In short, I'll say that this is something that Better Together should bring to the forefront of discussion. It should be pretty clear that the model of 20+ municipalities in that small sliver of North County, or 90+ municipalities in the county at large, is really going to hinder efforts to curb suburban poverty. I realize the issue is more complex than the way I just explained it, but I think this article really underscores the need for a much more serious discussion about this alarming trend.

Bloomberg Businessweek - The County Map That Explains Ferguson’s Tragic Discord

There’s widespread recognition that fragmentation is holding back the economic development of greater St. Louis, but once a municipality is formed, however small, it’s exceedingly difficult to merge out of existence. Ferguson is comparatively populous at about 21,000 people. Many of St. Louis County’s postage-stamp municipalities have fewer than 1,000 people. Champ may be the smallness champ, with a 2010 population of 13, all white

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... al-discord

NY Times - In Ferguson, Black Town, White Power

The region’s fragmentation isn’t limited to the odd case of a city shedding its county. St. Louis County contains 90 municipalities, most with their own city hall and police force. Many rely on revenue generated from traffic tickets and related fines. According to a study by the St. Louis nonprofit Better Together, Ferguson receives nearly one-quarter of its revenue from court fees; for some surrounding towns it approaches 50 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/opini ... power.html

Ferguson is about 2 miles from where i live . The time i lived there i really did enjoy it a great deal..
I do believe the time is now for the disincorporation of these communities & become one Saint.Louis.. None of these towns aren't going to grow much further . The one's that decide they don't want no part of the New Saint.Louis well thats just their luck.
I truly hope all of us can heal from this ....

^ Some of the "one's" that don't want no part of St. Louis are happy, with a balanced budget and a good quality of life.

I can call the non-emergency police number about a suspicious vehicle and within 90 seconds three police cars are swarming the block. Or I can call about a pothole in the street and the street director is there later that afternoon with a crew and some asphalt.

If I cross into the City of St. Louis and my car is broken into, I can't even get an officer to come out, and that's after being on hold for 15 minutes.

I think there is efficiency to be gained from combining services as needed - such as emergency dispatch. I also think that tools such as TIF need to be curbed or otherwise controlled regionally. But if it's "just my luck" that I don't want to put up with the cesspool inefficiency and corruption that plagues the City of St. Louis, then I'll take where I'm at any day.

quincunx wrote:NY Times - In Ferguson, Black Town, White Power

The region’s fragmentation isn’t limited to the odd case of a city shedding its county. St. Louis County contains 90 municipalities, most with their own city hall and police force. Many rely on revenue generated from traffic tickets and related fines. According to a study by the St. Louis nonprofit Better Together, Ferguson receives nearly one-quarter of its revenue from court fees; for some surrounding towns it approaches 50 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/opini ... power.html

I don't quite get it. Blacks have been the majority in Ferguson since the year 2000. Jeff is advocating consolidation as a solution. I suppose consolidating with mostly white communities to make black citizens a minority once again is the normal demographic in most suburban towns across the country. But does that solve the underlying problem, or just kick the can down the road and make it worse in the long run?

^^ STL county is losing population too. I hope you're still cool with the parochialism in another decade or two when your services go to sh*t.

bprop wrote:cesspool inefficiency and corruption that plagues the City of St. Louis, then I'll take where I'm at any day.

Them are fighting words.

^ I work in the city, shop there, play there, and - obviously - pay taxes there. There are many great things about the city. Efficiency, safety (particularly safety of property), and customer service are not among them.

St. Louis City balances its budget. Is it too big? Perhaps, but the region also confers extra responsibilities on it. Lots of tax exempt institutions, gov't buildings, highways, taking care of homeless, etc

I don't think Jeff Smith is saying merge all the munis, just enough of them so that the the bigger entity has the capacity to have a chance at dealing with its problems and at least doesn't have to be a speed trap town (which accounts for a lot of the animosity from black residents towards police) to keep the status quo funded.

^ His message is fine as a platitude ("just merge enough munis so there aren't too many") but it doesn't translate into something that will happen readily. Which ones get 'chosen' and how easily will those munis go along with losing their ability to self-govern without a fight?

I agree with the guy - there are functional and dysfunctional municipalities. But I wouldn't dare go up to what I think are dysfunctional ones and tell them they've been selected to lose their identities.

Berkeley will be annexing Kinloch in 2016 (next available time to adjust boundaries in the county)

What's the national average for court fees as a percentage of municipal revenue? Ferguson's 1/4 seems like a lot, but I don't really know what to compare it to.

bprop wrote:^ His message is fine as a platitude ("just merge enough munis so there aren't too many") but it doesn't translate into something that will happen readily. Which ones get 'chosen' and how easily will those munis go along with losing their ability to self-govern without a fight?

I agree with the guy - there are functional and dysfunctional municipalities. But I wouldn't dare go up to what I think are dysfunctional ones and tell them they've been selected to lose their identities.

Sure, the state the county, or outsiders shouldn't try to play king and shove something down. We need a conversation and a real proposal with buy in before it goes on the ballot like a consolidation of many cities and/or something is passed by MoLeg, like a muni accountability scheme.

bprop wrote:

urban_dilettante wrote:^^ STL county is losing population too. I hope you're still cool with the parochialism in another decade or two when your services go to sh*t.

As opposed to them going to sh*t sooner? I'm OK with that. BTW I'm not in unincorporated St Louis County. Residents pay directly for police, fire, public works, parks, etc., directly.

Scared white people from the County always make me chuckle.