^ isn't the airport co-owned by the city and county? if so, there's no way the county would allow that.
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Remind me what Better STL is doing to counter the haterz in Fenton, etc? After reading the suburban views of the city, why should I need them or trust them? Tax dollars? More school options? Crime #'s smoothed out? A fake increase in population in St. Louis? No more 1% earnings tax (Rex)? I truly don't think these guys have been to St. Louis other than a sporting event. What is the real, honest, easy sell for Better STL to an invested STL guy? All I see is haterz speaking publicly where it used to be kinda on the DL. I truly want change, I just think this Better STL thing is merely poking a beehive and not doing anything really productive. I think it points fingers at STL and not the disfunction elsewhere in the burbs. I'm probably a bit biased as a St. Louisan, but I think this Better STL thing doesn't seem to be gaining support, rather I see silence from STL leadership and negativity from the wealthy suburban city's leadership. Am I wrong? I just want to see some love and unity and this doesn't seem to be bringing it.
They've told me they're getting lots of love when they go around the region talking to people. It's the bloviating haterz who are making the headlines. They don't want to talk about how much money they're wasting maintaining the status quo so they say "hey, look over here!"
Their population has gone down 50% since 1970. I think they got the money for the new city hall, etc from a grant or from a TIF. There was a mention of it in a TV story about Kinloch, and I've yet to find out exactly how they paid for the new digs.STLEnginerd wrote:^is Berkeley actually struggling? They just spent large sum on a brand new, and fairly opulent City Hall and Fire Station. I hadn't heard they were having financial issues, but if they are and their finances are in bad shape their city leadership should be tarred and feathered for the wasteful spending. My understanding is the new buildings did not increase the tax burden in Berkeley.
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^Regarding Berkeley, they are definitely struggling with demographic trends, but i believe they are fiscally sound. My understanding is the city hall was paid for by an arbitrated settlement reached with a large coorporation who created a superfund site within the city limits sometime in the 1950s. The arbitrated settlement involved paying for cleanup plus a large cash settlement.
Bond issues and sale tax increases must go to the voters, but large financial settlements such as this can be spent at the discretion of the city council, without a vote. The city council (probably rightly, short of merging with a neighboring muni) felt that they were in desperate need of new municipal facilities, so thats where the money was invested. This is all second hand but I believe it.
Bond issues and sale tax increases must go to the voters, but large financial settlements such as this can be spent at the discretion of the city council, without a vote. The city council (probably rightly, short of merging with a neighboring muni) felt that they were in desperate need of new municipal facilities, so thats where the money was invested. This is all second hand but I believe it.
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^ A recent news story (about a firehouse) seemed to indicate that there are some fiscal issues that may be attributed to the tornadoes the past couple years and delays in getting state or federal reimbursements. Or something like that. KSDK also had a story on Clarksville last night on how they can't afford any sandbagging, etc. this year as the river rises.... they spent $400k last year and will go broke if they were to duplicate that expenditure. Mother Nature can be a real kick in the pants.
The problem I see with the county is that it is where the city was 50 years ago, in need of redevelopment but too dysfunctional to get it done. A big part of the problem is our governmental fragmentation, there are just too many little fiefdoms. A city of 10,000 that is not accountable to some type of larger regional government is dead in the 21st century economy. Many of the inner ring suburbs are just no big enough or ran by people with enough education/competence to draft a solid economic plan, so they go all in on the retail wars. In all honesty, the 90+ municipalities should have no more power than the average neighborhood association in most cities. Maplewood, University City, Normandy etc. should be no more than neighborhood districts in a larger St. Louis of 1.3 million people. Take away TIF, economic development, police and fire, and zoning away from these little incompetent burgs, they are doing nothing more than dragging down the region. A St. Louis of 1.3 million people is a solidly middle class, educated city with a diversity of institutions and attractions that is capable of moving fast, getting deals done, and leveraging resources better. Not to mention this completely changes state politics. All elected officials will be expected to vote in the best interest of the city.
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So when is Better Together expected to get to conclusions on what form to take for consolidation? I'd be more than pleased to have a greatly consolidated County working in partnership with an improving City that could be rejoined with the County... I just can't see anything beyond that getting passed in the next decade or two.
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First of Im for the city county merger or what ever they want to call it, butvthe real concern for me is what will the city gain from this. (besides the end of job poaching and inner regional competition which would a good reason to do it in and of itself). The one thing that bothers me is if this happens would st louis become less interested in reviving its older areas and just wants more sprawl since the city could and probably would annex more areas especially unincorporated areas just south of the city.
The next concern I worry about do people in the city really want people like David Wrone (mastermind of the south county connector) calling shots on transportation in the city itself, Just look at the county's Modot's project list which makes, the city's list look much more progressive by comparison. The leadership in the entire county has no sense or place what soever, and thinks it is St Charles county
Third A lot of the people as well as the housing stock of the county is aging, causing many parts of the county into decline, why would the city want anything to do with that, since a good number of neighborhood in the city and reviving. To end my little rant we never really discussed any (could be) negative consequences for the city it it where do join the county.
The next concern I worry about do people in the city really want people like David Wrone (mastermind of the south county connector) calling shots on transportation in the city itself, Just look at the county's Modot's project list which makes, the city's list look much more progressive by comparison. The leadership in the entire county has no sense or place what soever, and thinks it is St Charles county
Third A lot of the people as well as the housing stock of the county is aging, causing many parts of the county into decline, why would the city want anything to do with that, since a good number of neighborhood in the city and reviving. To end my little rant we never really discussed any (could be) negative consequences for the city it it where do join the county.
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^ Great Questions. Ones I have pondered for quite some time.
A "Statistical St. Louis" could solve the region's image problem
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a- ... 381d4.html
Very interesting article. He proposes something that would not require any of the political unions that are so divisive and controversial. Instead, as a stopgap purely to improve our region's image to the outside world, he proposes creating a "statistical city" which is an entity only for reporting statistics and would not be used for governance.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a- ... 381d4.html
Very interesting article. He proposes something that would not require any of the political unions that are so divisive and controversial. Instead, as a stopgap purely to improve our region's image to the outside world, he proposes creating a "statistical city" which is an entity only for reporting statistics and would not be used for governance.
A new Statistical City would do one thing and only one thing. It would combine the population of the independent city of St. Louis and all the municipalities located within the boundaries of St. Louis County. Absolutely, nothing else. The City of St. Louis does not re-enter St. Louis County. No person, politician or existing municipality or other entity would be threatened, harmed or in any way changed. All existing municipalities would stay intact as is. No one is bailing out another. No tax structures would change or become a burden for any other municipality or tax paying citizen. Nothing changes but the population and the very ugly and harmful perception of the metro St. Louis area as a crime-ridden, dying and decaying region. Yes, both legal as stated in the Missouri constitution and easily attainable.
St Louis definitely suffers from a perception problem but I don't see this has a long-term solution
Definitely not a long term solution but could it be a short term solution until we come up with an optimal long term one?
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Two thumbs down for Statistical Saint Louis City.
I think we have real systemic structural problems promoting dysfunction and waste that need to be chipped away at. We so rarely get a chance to vote on something on this issue, I'd hate to try this statistical city idea and then have to wait many more years before doing something concrete.
81 municipal courts is a horrible waste.
Cops writing speeding tickets to prop up tiny city budgets while high crime areas persist is insane.
The TIF Wars and sales tax chase is dysfunctional.
Etc, etc
It's harder to make progress on those fronts. Harder to come with the specific reform and harder to sell it. But I think it's worth it.
81 municipal courts is a horrible waste.
Cops writing speeding tickets to prop up tiny city budgets while high crime areas persist is insane.
The TIF Wars and sales tax chase is dysfunctional.
Etc, etc
It's harder to make progress on those fronts. Harder to come with the specific reform and harder to sell it. But I think it's worth it.
@ i,Iive,to,draw It's difficult to answer your questions without a specific proposal on the table being considered. There's going to be pros and cons to any.
Under a plan that puts the city's territory in the county (Reentry or more) those citizens would get representation on the County Council (expanding it to 9 members is the most obvious option) and vote for County Executive, Assessor, and Prosecutor. A resident of the city could run for those offices.
I share your concern regarding the county's highway dept, etc. I've been wondering how things would have played out in the sales tax for transportation list-making process had the city been a part of the county. But remember the citizens of the city would have representation and influence in the process. Would a County Executive from the city have a county highway dept acting like it is? And even if not from the city he'd have to be concerned with the city's needs and wants.
We have to keep in mind that whatever cons we identify in a reform proposal that the status quo has considerable cons which seem a bit less bad because we're living in them. Opponents will throw out lots of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) and try to convince us that we'll suffer negative unintended consequences. Remember though that we are living an unintended consequence.
Under a plan that puts the city's territory in the county (Reentry or more) those citizens would get representation on the County Council (expanding it to 9 members is the most obvious option) and vote for County Executive, Assessor, and Prosecutor. A resident of the city could run for those offices.
I share your concern regarding the county's highway dept, etc. I've been wondering how things would have played out in the sales tax for transportation list-making process had the city been a part of the county. But remember the citizens of the city would have representation and influence in the process. Would a County Executive from the city have a county highway dept acting like it is? And even if not from the city he'd have to be concerned with the city's needs and wants.
We have to keep in mind that whatever cons we identify in a reform proposal that the status quo has considerable cons which seem a bit less bad because we're living in them. Opponents will throw out lots of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) and try to convince us that we'll suffer negative unintended consequences. Remember though that we are living an unintended consequence.
KSDK - Firehouse closed while family's house burns
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/20 ... /11581453/The City of Berkeley says declining tax revenue and unexpected tornado recovery costs have strained its budget. And over the past eight months the city says it has closed one of its two fire stations temporarily to save money.
KSDK - Homeless mother says burned home could've been saved
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/20 ... /12278937/Cynthia Day said firefighters first showed up to her house without water. She said she stood by an emergency responder as she watched flames engulf her home. She lives less than a mile away from a Berkeley fire station on Airport Road. The cause of the fire is under investigation.
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Here is rendering of a new Cuyahoga County Headquarters going up in downtown Cleveland as part of a larger redevelopment project:
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Its part of a consolidation effort by County officials who hope the move will save significant $$... I also see City of Minneapolis is looking to consolidate scattered departments into a single facility and has an rfp out. I doubt County HQ would relocate to downtown if we reunited, but I wonder if some consolidation of city offices into an energy-efficient (possibly new) modern downtown building would help Saint Louis City.... quite a few are in the dreary 1520 Market Building and I just think that building is a killjoy. We've got too much property tied up on in the Civic Area on single-use buildings and if we could sell some like 1520 for better redevelopment to give some mixed-use life I think that could be a very good thing.
Come to think of it, a demolished 1520 Market that is replaced with an attractive mixed-use redevelopment would nicely compliment a renovated office/restaurant 1320 Market... the City could consolidate offices into a new retail/office tower that would go up as Phase 2 of that latter project. We'd begin to have a vibrant mixed-use and pedestrian-friendly area between Union Station and the CBD.
Its part of a consolidation effort by County officials who hope the move will save significant $$... I also see City of Minneapolis is looking to consolidate scattered departments into a single facility and has an rfp out. I doubt County HQ would relocate to downtown if we reunited, but I wonder if some consolidation of city offices into an energy-efficient (possibly new) modern downtown building would help Saint Louis City.... quite a few are in the dreary 1520 Market Building and I just think that building is a killjoy. We've got too much property tied up on in the Civic Area on single-use buildings and if we could sell some like 1520 for better redevelopment to give some mixed-use life I think that could be a very good thing.
Come to think of it, a demolished 1520 Market that is replaced with an attractive mixed-use redevelopment would nicely compliment a renovated office/restaurant 1320 Market... the City could consolidate offices into a new retail/office tower that would go up as Phase 2 of that latter project. We'd begin to have a vibrant mixed-use and pedestrian-friendly area between Union Station and the CBD.
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JuanHamez wrote:A "Statistical St. Louis" could solve the region's image problem
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a- ... 381d4.html
Very interesting article. He proposes something that would not require any of the political unions that are so divisive and controversial. Instead, as a stopgap purely to improve our region's image to the outside world, he proposes creating a "statistical city" which is an entity only for reporting statistics and would not be used for governance.
A new Statistical City would do one thing and only one thing. It would combine the population of the independent city of St. Louis and all the municipalities located within the boundaries of St. Louis County. Absolutely, nothing else. The City of St. Louis does not re-enter St. Louis County. No person, politician or existing municipality or other entity would be threatened, harmed or in any way changed. All existing municipalities would stay intact as is. No one is bailing out another. No tax structures would change or become a burden for any other municipality or tax paying citizen. Nothing changes but the population and the very ugly and harmful perception of the metro St. Louis area as a crime-ridden, dying and decaying region. Yes, both legal as stated in the Missouri constitution and easily attainable.
I'd be for this in the short term. It would protect us from the those damning lists.
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It also might, in turn, marginally improve the city's image in the county, thus making an eventual re-entry more feasible.moorlander wrote: I'd be for this in the short term. It would protect us from the those damning lists.
Isn't it possible that this would then create a flurry of similar proposals in other cities designed to improve their image? I suppose being the first would have some benefits, but if it started a trend of cities creating "statistical cities" just to bump up their numbers, is that really the goal? Also, why would any of the organizations that produce these numbers even consider using the "statistical city?"