2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostOct 09, 2008#801

1) Who is current "civic leadership"?



2) How has that changed since when Union Station was renovated?



Answer both of those questions, and you'll have a good idea why things are as they are in this town.

941
Super MemberSuper Member
941

PostOct 09, 2008#802

bonwich wrote:1) Who is current "civic leadership"?



2) How has that changed since when Union Station was renovated?



Answer both of those questions, and you'll have a good idea why things are as they are in this town.


What are you getting at?



Schoemehl was the mayor of StL at the time of Union Station's rehab. According to Wikipedia, he was a proponent of historic preservation. Had he been a proponent of aggressive revenue growth, perhaps our city would be different.



Source

2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostOct 09, 2008#803

^I think Joe ultimately defines "current civic leadership" as Civic Progress, and other members of a certain elite country club in St. Louis County.



Others might point to the entrenched Democratic establishment in the city of St. Louis.

2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostOct 09, 2008#804

Careful, you're putting words in my mouth. I'd tend to agree with you on both, plus a certain former Republican senator with a boatload of money and family ties who apparently has to approve major civic project in town. There are probably others.



P.S. Wikipedia isn't a valid historical reference.

5,631
Life MemberLife Member
5,631

PostOct 09, 2008#805

ttricamo wrote:
innov8ion wrote:But we likely could use more creativity and openness in addressing them. That involves facilitation by secure and wise leadership to capture the collective genius.


Sounds a little too dreamy for me. Use the KISS principle and then execute the plan. St. Louis isn't the first city to attempt a renaissance - the boiler plate is out there.
What we speak of is a certain amount of insularity that decreases the likelihood for optimal solutions. Bonwich is likely to attest to that.



Let it be clear that renaissances do not occur in vacuums. They face extra hurdles in periods of recession. And clearly impossible during a depression.

941
Super MemberSuper Member
941

PostOct 09, 2008#806

bonwich wrote:P.S. Wikipedia isn't a valid historical reference.


Don't you love using the "P.S." as a quick sarcastic rebuttal?



P.S. - You're wrong. Here is the link to Wiki's reference - which is from the St. Louis Public Library.



Suck it, Trebec.

5,631
Life MemberLife Member
5,631

PostOct 09, 2008#807

^ bonwich has been around the block a few times. he lived amidst the history. you're comparing a biographical summary with reality? are you serious? :roll:

2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostOct 09, 2008#808

P-D editorial, 2004 wrote:ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT



THE REGIONAL CHAMBER & GROWTH ASSOCIATION hopes to raise $20 million from its member companies and organizations for economic development programs here in the next five years. It's a worthy goal for the region's largest business organization but one complicated by the fallout from the recent flap over RCGA's dealings with self-professed "clairvoyant" business consultant David Z. Levin. Mr. Levin, who runs five businesses out of his home in Boulder, Colo., was paid $1.4 million over the past seven years for his work for RCGA and its president, Richard C.D. Fleming. Mr. Fleming vouched for Mr. Levin's bona fides as he ushered him into board-rooms and executive suites to do interviews and offer guidance on various projects.



RCGA also "loaned" (for $220,000) Mr. Levin to Civic Progress in 1998. Mr. Levin helped reorganize Civic Progress, the group of chief executives from the largest area firms.



In late August, a British magazine reported on Mr. Levin's claims of clairvoyant powers and his relationship with the RCGA. RCGA insiders, including board members and staffers, were surprised -- not so much about Mr. Levin's claims of psychic powers but that he had been paid an average of $200,000 a year since 1997.



Some members of RCGA's board now are wondering whether Mr. Levin wasn't symptomatic of a larger problem: lack of oversight by the group's unwieldy 113-member board of the way Mr. Fleming has run the day-to-day operation. The board already had decided to exercise more diligence over the $4 million-a-year economic development program. Now some board members are pushing for more accountability over the rest of RCGA's management.



RCGA's nearly $9 million annual budget is largely paid by the dues of its 4,000 member organizations, which include businesses, nonprofit groups, labor, educational institutions and government agencies. St. Louis County gave $250,000 in fiscal 2004; St. Charles County kicked in $50,000. About $500,000 of the $4 million yearly economic development budget is slated to come from public sector sources.



The tax money gives the public a stake in RCGA's governance, as does RCGA's critical role in attracting new jobs and businesses. The chamber also promotes networking opportunities for member firms and lobbies public bodies on business-related issues.



Business leaders and public officials contacted by the Post-Dispatch generally -- but not unanimously -- agreed that RCGA does a fairly good job of selling St. Louis and lobbying for business interests. Most of them praised Mr. Fleming's abilities as a salesman. There is less agreement on his abilities as a manager.



Since being hired in 1994, Mr. Fleming has put his personal stamp on everything RCGA does. In RCGA's first economic development drive in the late 1990s, Mr. Fleming got a substantial bonus when the goal of 100,000 new jobs was met. How many of those jobs were his doing and how many were the result of a booming economy is nearly impossible to quantify.



RCGA sources say that the organization's goals and budgets are loosely defined. Thus, when Mr. Fleming wanted Mr. Levin to work on a project here, he could shift funds easily from one project to another. Mr. Levin's "deliverables" -- business jargon for what he was supposed to produce -- were vague, too, making it less likely that anyone would question his concrete accomplishments.



Mr. Fleming insisted that his own performance is subjected to "rigorous evaluation against measurables," but that the board of directors gives him wide latitude for hiring, firing and choosing vendors. "I have operated within the framework that the board has presented to me," he said.



Mr. Fleming's contract was renewed quietly this summer, rolling over for another five years. He would not disclose the terms of the agreement, but said much of his compensation is incentive-based. One top business leader said the contract was worth in excess of $500,000 a year. In 2002, the last year for which figures were disclosed, Mr. Fleming was paid about $380,000 in salary and bonuses, not including $25,000 in contributions to his employee benefits plan and assorted perks.



Mr. Fleming keeps his compensation deals close to his vest. At least one member of the RCGA's executive committee and two of its vice presidents were unaware that his contract had been renewed at all.



He also has wide discretion in the hiring of consultants, for which RCGA paid $700,000 in 2003. "Dick is consultant-happy," said one St. Louis CEO, noting that consulting fees were not disclosed as budget-line items, either. Among the consultants hired recently were: Joel Kotkin of Pepperdine University, paid $75,000 this year to study St. Louis' appeal (or lack thereof) to young people; Patrick Davis Associates, a public relations firm hired to develop a "brand" for St. Louis but which quickly shifted over to damage control in the "psychic flap"; and KMK Consulting Inc. of Cincinnati, hired to help in the five-year, $20 million economic-developing fund-raising drive.



Maybe it's all legit. Maybe Mr. Fleming and his consultant-of-the-month are a bargain. Maybe St. Louis is creating new businesses at a breathtaking pace. Or maybe not. Mr. Fleming said he would have no objection to new financial controls, measurable goals and transparency. The board should oblige him.



2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostOct 09, 2008#809

^^Some might even say that he is living history. :lol:



This thread seems to have evolved into a different topic, which deserves a thread of it's own. Perhaps we should call it, "Why is Saint Louis so F'd up?"

941
Super MemberSuper Member
941

PostOct 09, 2008#810

innov8ion wrote:^ bonwich has been around the block a few times. he lived amidst the history. you're comparing a biographical summary with reality? are you serious? :roll:


Huh? I was merely pointing out the fact that Wikipedia is a valid historical reference.



yet another source



Bonwich - my apologies if I offended you as I would absolutely love a) your perspective on Schoemehl and b) your uncanny ability to source PD articles from 26 years ago.

2,190
Life MemberLife Member
2,190

PostOct 09, 2008#811

ttricamo wrote:
bonwich wrote:P.S. Wikipedia isn't a valid historical reference.


Don't you love using the "P.S." as a quick sarcastic rebuttal?



P.S. - You're wrong. Here is the link to Wiki's reference - which is from the St. Louis Public Library.



Suck it, Trebec.


Golly. An unattributed three-paragraph biography from SLPL encapsulates all of Vince's history for this nice young person. And people question whether Wikipedia is contributing to the dumbing-down of public discourse.



Let's parse. SLPL says:



"When he took office in 1981, Vincent Schoemehl was one of the City's youngest mayors. He was interested in historic preservation and urban design. Schoemehl worked to save the Cupples Warehouses from demolition. Mayor Schoemehl was interested in good urban design and rehabilitation of St. Louis. His administration promoted 'public-private partnerships' that led to more than 600 successful rehabilitation projects."



But Wikipedia says:



"At the time of his first election, he was one of the City's youngest mayors. Schoemehl is remembered for his leadership in the areas of historic preservation and urban design. He helped save the Cupples Warehouses from demolition and promoted "public-private partnerships" that led to more than 600 successful rehabilitation projects. He also launched Operation Brightside, a City beautification program, and Operation Safestreet, a home safety program."



Golly. One of these things is not like the other. One of these things isn't the same. One of these things is not like the other. Now it's time to play our game. (C'mon and play our game.)



Here are a few hints: Gateway Mall. Union Market.



And one that even those who weren't born when the prior two debacles took place might recognize: Grand Center.



But do keep reading Wikipedia as a primary source. It does a bangup job on Provel,

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostOct 10, 2008#812

:!: Please take futher discussion to PM.



:arrow: Back to Union Station happenings, currents, etc... on this thread.



Thanks.

111
Junior MemberJunior Member
111

PostOct 12, 2008#813

In regards to whether or not Houlihan's is closing at St. Louis Union Station, a recent 1/2 page ad in Sauce Magazine for Houlihan's Restaurants list addresses for 4 out 5 of their restaurants in St. Louis and the Union Station location is the one that is not listed.

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostOct 13, 2008#814

I saw the same thing.



But that doesn't mean they are closing. It means the management/ownership of the Houlihans at Union Station didn't contribute to the ad.

111
Junior MemberJunior Member
111

PostOct 16, 2008#815

Union Station sends negative message to food court merchants today. As the food court prepared to serve the lunch rush, a table was set up in the food court and outside on the patio at the south entrance with a promotion by Fresh Express giving away free prepacked salads that you could eat on the spot. So today, the lunch crowd dined for free as the food merchants watched helplessly and lost a great deal of the lunch business. Way to go Union Station management, keep slapping the merchants in the face and eventually they will get the message that you do not want them to suceed, just pay your rent. :? Honestly, I am at loss for words on what I considered the ultimate mis-carriage of justice against the food merchants. But maybe next week they will give away free t-shirts and the following week will be free ghetto jewelry. One way or another they will get the merchants to leave and then they will have the place all to themselves.

12K
Life MemberLife Member
12K

PostOct 17, 2008#816

You're right. Pretty low blow.

390
Full MemberFull Member
390

PostOct 17, 2008#817

lamiaposta wrote:Union Station sends negative message to food court merchants today. As the food court prepared to serve the lunch rush, a table was set up in the food court and outside on the patio at the south entrance with a promotion by Fresh Express giving away free prepacked salads ....


wow, bad move. duh.

111
Junior MemberJunior Member
111

PostOct 20, 2008#818

It's official, the Starbucks at Union Station is closed. The normal stream of local office workers and hotel guest was all but gone today, leaving the Union Station Mall devoid of a significant amount of regular traffic. The closing of Starbucks at St. Louis Union Station will have a devastating affect on foot traffic in the mall, which ultimately will have a negative effect on the number of potential customers for the other merchants. IMO the closing of Starbucks at Union Station speaks to the serious trouble Union Station will have in surviving. At least surviving to be anything better than ghetto shoppers and tourist trash.

8,912
Life MemberLife Member
8,912

PostOct 20, 2008#819

Looks like US is headed to the toilet bowl... Will the owners be able to right the ship or will they need think of a new mixed use?

2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostOct 20, 2008#820

^The more important question is: are they trying to "right the ship", or sink it?

111
Junior MemberJunior Member
111

PostOct 20, 2008#821

jlblues wrote:^The more important question is: are they trying to "right the ship", or sink it?


Currently IMO they are not making an intelligent effort to right the ship. When a merchant decides to move out, they virtually make no effort to work it out, ie, rent negotiation is out of the question as are other adjustments. It is either Union Stations way or the highway. The management at Union Station has totally failed to make adjustments in their unsuccessful business performa to meet the times. Don't you think some merchants would have stayed if they could have worked out a profitable future. But when the management refuses to make adjustments, the merchants have no choice but to leave or go bankrupt. They rarely even talk to the merchants other than maybe an occasional hi in passing if you are lucky. And we all know how rediculously incompetant the marketing is in their continued failure to successfully market Union Station.

424
Full MemberFull Member
424

PostOct 20, 2008#822

What is Union Centre?

111
Junior MemberJunior Member
111

PostOct 21, 2008#823

In rapid succession stores are closing at the St. Louis Union Station Mall. In addition to Starbucks closing this weekend, Aussie Outfitters also closed. By the end of October, 18 stores will have closed at Union Station this year and appears that more are to close. I am not even counting all the Kiosk that no longer exist. At least the number of t shirt shops is declining, but the closing of t shirt shops in itself speaks to the serious problem St Louis Union Station is having staying afloat.

6,775
Life MemberLife Member
6,775

PostOct 21, 2008#824

How long until they shut the doors?

2,821
Life MemberLife Member
2,821

PostOct 21, 2008#825

lamiaposta wrote:...but the closing of t shirt shops in itself speaks to the serious problem St Louis Union Station is having staying afloat.
Again, you are assuming that they are trying to stay afloat.


lamiaposta wrote:Currently IMO they are not making an intelligent effort to right the ship. When a merchant decides to move out, they virtually make no effort to work it out, ie, rent negotiation is out of the question as are other adjustments. It is either Union Stations way or the highway. The management at Union Station has totally failed to make adjustments in their unsuccessful business performa to meet the times. Don't you think some merchants would have stayed if they could have worked out a profitable future.
All of those things cost money, and they obviously aren't interested in committing one more dime of capital into retaining the enclosed mall retail tenants. In that respect, it is identical to the demise of St. Louis Centre. Unlike St. Louis Centre however, there is no discernable financial incentive for Union Station's owner to let the mall empty out, so I can only surmise that they have plans that don't include those tenants.



They seem to be actively encouraging the retail tenants in the enclosed portion of the mall to leave, and they are going about it in such a way that it is the tenant's decision to break their lease, so the owner doesn't have to go through the eviction process, buy out leases, or absorb the legal expense of a bunch of breach of contract suits.



Perhaps the owner has redevelopment plans for the enclosed retail area, or perhaps they simply feel that Union Station will be easier to sell as a more or less clean slate. I find it extremely difficult to believe however, that the owner and Jones Lang Lasalle are trying to turn US into a profitable enterprise, and they are simply this inept.

Read more posts (119 remaining)