urbanSTL

Dweebe: Can you put a locator on the Starbucks? Is it in the east/west corridor parallel to the terminal, or in the north/south retail corridor? If the latter, which level and where?

dweebe wrote:Joe: what was the name of the restaurant that first occupied the spot where Starbucks is now in Union Station? I remember it being pretty nice with lots of chrome and black steel.



Heck: I remember when the first Eddie Bauer and Banana Republic in St. Louis were at Union Station.

that restarant that used to be at that Starbucks location was a Mandarin House Chinese restaurant. They had location along with one at Manchester and Barrett Station in that old Wal-Mart shopping center. Both of those have closed, their main and original location is at Page and 170 where they are currently.



We go there often since they are friends of the family.

bonwich wrote:Dweebe: Can you put a locator on the Starbucks? Is it in the east/west corridor parallel to the terminal, or in the north/south retail corridor? If the latter, which level and where?

Lower level. North-south axis right next door to Houlihans.

10-intuition wrote:that restarant that used to be at that Starbucks location was a Mandarin House Chinese restaurant. They had location along with one at Manchester and Barrett Station in that old Wal-Mart shopping center. Both of those have closed, their main and original location is at Page and 170 where they are currently.



We go there often since they are friends of the family.

But I thought it was something non-Asian when the mall opened and before that slot became Mandarin House.

^ That helps. (So does having a searchable archive.) The original restaurant in that space was called Papillon. (But it jumped off the cliff and escaped through the dangerous waters. )

lamiaposta wrote:I can appreciate your tongue and cheek, but if you look around St. Louis, that's what them folks like.



St. Louis loves the Branson atmosphere...



...after all, this is not Chicago.

Yep. Us yokels down here in St. Louis cain't possibly be as sophisteecated as them there yuppies up in Chicago.



Every major city, even perfect Chicago, has its share of rubes. Not every small town is filled with rubes. How about a lighter brushstroke next time?



Even if The Shed turns out to be a Chotchkie's doppelganger, I don't feel that St. Louis is exactly lacking in culture or great places to eat. I really wish this town could shed (no pun intended) its civic inferiority complex once and for all.

dweebe wrote:
But I thought it was something non-Asian when the mall opened and before that slot became Mandarin House.

I must be too young to remember the original tenant there, but all I can remember was Mandarin House from the early '90s up until about 3 years ago when it was closed and turned into a Starbucks.



I also remember there was Mcdonalds on the lower level behind the Fudgery.

Matt, I remember a Fedora on the Plaza in KC as well.



Bonwich, if you go far enough back, wasn't there a restaurant called Papillon on what is now the Gateway Mall? If I recall it had a large butterfly painted on the outside wall. The building was a hold out and looked out of place because everything else on the block had been torn down and left for surface parking.



Sorry, I guess I am getting way off topic for a Union Station discussion.

^ God, you're good.

The original Papillon was a dark, narrow cafe in a building that she and her husband, dentist John Mahoney, owned at 111 North Eighth Street. They sold the building to Southwestern Bell Corp., and he will relocate his Downtown Dental Service to Seventh and Olive streets in October.

The Papillon in Union Station was something of a harbinger. It closed after just 18 months, about the same time half a dozen or more of the original tenants crashed and burned. The common complaint at the time: The parking charges were ridiculous. Plus ça change...



Oh, and that bakery the southcitygent was thinking of was Au Bon Pain (kinda ironic, given our current business/historical perspective). It, too, pulled out in less than 2 years.

Made the morning coffee run to Union Station for the office and it looks like they're getting ready to open today. Tons of staff running all over the place and a bunch of suits huddled in one corner.



There are liquor license meeting notices posted outside the mall indicating they're asking for a 3am license.

Juice13610 wrote:The only thing cool going on at Union Station is the Fudge Factory (I think that's the name? Been too long since I've been there) and Hooters...which...isn't Hooters moved out of US now?

Like I said earlier, the hokier the more St. Louis likes it. The majority of retailers at Union Station pray for the day The Fudgery shuts down, they call it the Amos and Andy show and the same people who flock to Branson line up at the Fudgery to be insulted and clap like sheep. Like I said, the nice shops are moving out to make way for the more degrading shops. As for Hooters, yes you have not been to US in awhile or downtown for that fact. Hooters moved across from Kiener Plaza I think a year or so ago.

Just for the record, here is list of some of the newer stores

Henna Tatto - a cart selling fake Henna tattoos

Getaway Vacations - Selling hotel rooms for $49 if you sit through a time share presentation

Walk & Roll - sells knock off Skeeter roller shoes, while playing a loud video so it can be over heard over the Fudgery. (Rumor is they move out after two months at the end of July because they can stand US.

Spa to Go - which is a manicure kit in a box and if you don't stop to see their product they will chase after you until you stop

Wireless R Us - sells the usual cell phone chargers and cases at an overprice

King Louies Popcorn - sells popcorn for $8 a bag, just like the stuff you buy at the movie theater, but no movie included

Todays News - Sell a few newspapers and Magazines, but mainly sells your normal 7-11 bottled beverage selection and lots of cheap candy bars, cigarrettes and cameras in a box. This one should make you run to Union Station. Certainly adds to the uniqueness.

Janets Dreams - started out selling Beanie baby's, but not is selling Cardinal and stuff with St. Louis on it. Last time I checked, there about nine other stores in US doing this too. How's that for diversity.

While I am at it, here is a list of the stores that are moving out between now and 2010 when leases expire

Starbucks

Bud Shop

Discovery

Cardinal Clubhouse

Cioccolato

Inspirations

and I would not be surprised if the Body Shop goes too.

As for the Shed opening by Hyatt, I think they were just protecting their asset, in that guest staying at the hotel have expectations when they stay at a nice place and when they walked the US mall there are some negative reactions and now the Hyatt can direct their guest to their new restaurant.

lamiaposta wrote:Like I said earlier, the hokier the more St. Louis likes it.

And like I said before, you're painting with a broad brushstroke.



Where did you find out about the lease expiration dates for current tenants? If all that information is accurate, Union Station is in worse trouble than I thought.



I still don't think you can point to a poorly managed, barely promoted, half-empty shopping center and make sweeping generalizations about St. Louis, however.

lamiaposta wrote:

Juice13610 wrote:The only thing cool going on at Union Station is the Fudge Factory (I think that's the name? Been too long since I've been there) and Hooters...which...isn't Hooters moved out of US now?

Like I said earlier, the hokier the more St. Louis likes it. The majority of retailers at Union Station pray for the day The Fudgery shuts down, they call it the Amos and Andy show and the same people who flock to Branson line up at the Fudgery to be insulted and clap like sheep. Like I said, the nice shops are moving out to make way for the more degrading shops. As for Hooters, yes you have not been to US in awhile or downtown for that fact. Hooters moved across from Kiener Plaza I think a year or so ago.

Just for the record, here is list of some of the newer stores

Henna Tatto - a cart selling fake Henna tattoos

Getaway Vacations - Selling hotel rooms for $49 if you sit through a time share presentation

Walk & Roll - sells knock off Skeeter roller shoes, while playing a loud video so it can be over heard over the Fudgery. (Rumor is they move out after two months at the end of July because they can stand US.

Spa to Go - which is a manicure kit in a box and if you don't stop to see their product they will chase after you until you stop

Wireless R Us - sells the usual cell phone chargers and cases at an overprice

King Louies Popcorn - sells popcorn for $8 a bag, just like the stuff you buy at the movie theater, but no movie included

Todays News - Sell a few newspapers and Magazines, but mainly sells your normal 7-11 bottled beverage selection and lots of cheap candy bars, cigarrettes and cameras in a box. This one should make you run to Union Station. Certainly adds to the uniqueness.

Janets Dreams - started out selling Beanie baby's, but not is selling Cardinal and stuff with St. Louis on it. Last time I checked, there about nine other stores in US doing this too. How's that for diversity.

While I am at it, here is a list of the stores that are moving out between now and 2010 when leases expire

Starbucks

Bud Shop

Discovery

Cardinal Clubhouse

Cioccolato

Inspirations

and I would not be surprised if the Body Shop goes too.

As for the Shed opening by Hyatt, I think they were just protecting their asset, in that guest staying at the hotel have expectations when they stay at a nice place and when they walked the US mall there are some negative reactions and now the Hyatt can direct their guest to their new restaurant.

Exactly. Same reason they opened the Einstein Bros. place. Didn't need all the guests walking past the empty slot.

It would make sense for the Cardinals shop to close, as the new Busch has a Cards team shop on-site.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

lamiaposta wrote:Like I said earlier, the hokier the more St. Louis likes it.

And like I said before, you're painting with a broad brushstroke.



Where did you find out about the lease expiration dates for current tenants? If all that information is accurate, Union Station is in worse trouble than I thought.



I still don't think you can point to a poorly managed, barely promoted, half-empty shopping center and make sweeping generalizations about St. Louis, however.

I do agree the brush stroke is a little big as this is not true for all of St. Louis, but does seem true for Union Station and keep in mind, supposedly Union Station is the #3 attraction in St. Louis and if you are from out of town, your impression of St. Louis may be Union Station. Now Downtown is a different story and is coming along nicely and should definitely brighten the view of St. Louis in the future. I just wish Union Station would do their part to move the city forward. But as you mentioned, poor management, empty stores and the wrong type of stores and improperly promoted will keep US where it is currently.



On that same note, there are a couple people, supposedly, who are actually discussing making offers on US but sources tell me that still will may take several year.



As for my source on the pending leases, most of it comes from management and owners at these stores. Only time will tell on who stays and who goes.

I would like to see stats on how many visitors/shoppers at Union Station/guests at the hotel are FROM St. Louis. Very few would be my guess. This means that it isn't St. Louisan's that like it Hokie (or possibly Hokey), it is more a case of the people who run Union Station thinking that their customer pool likes it Hokey. I don't know a single St. Louisan that ever goes to Union Station for any reason. The last time I was there was for a national conference; prior to that I was a little kid going to see the "brand new" adaptive re-use.

Doug wrote:There is a Cardinal Store at the Galleria. How many do we need?

It makes sense to have one downtown, considering all the folks who come in from out of town to go to Cards games. Like I said though, the new store at Busch alleviates the need to have a store at US.

lamiaposta wrote:

bonwich wrote:Are you sure you're not thinking of Fedora? I think it was the first occupant of that space, and those were Union Station's glory days. One of the powers behind Fedora was a guy named Bill Cardwell, whose name you might recognize.

Fedora as my memory recalls was located on the first floor next to the Discovery Store at the bottom of the steps of the north east door entrance, which later became a Asian Buffet.

And then maybe a video arcade? That sounds right. All I can remember is that you could walk in almost directly, probably through that side door.



I also think you could argue (as I think others are doing in this thread) that St. Louis has roundly rejected the "hokeyness" of Union Station. When stuff like Fedora and Papillon and the Discovery Store and a few others of the first tenants were there, it got some buzz -- perhaps in large part from the novelty value -- but the dogged, slaved determination to build parking fees into the profit model was one of the reasons people just stopped going. As with St. Louis Centre, it also didn't help that the unique (for the time) national stores then replicated in other new malls, out in the 'burbs where there were acres of free parking and no scary city folks to have to (perceptionally) risk your lives around.



And, of course, there's no "there" there. It just wasn't and isn't close enough to walkable concentrations of hotels or businesses or residential. The planning geniuses also pulled the tens of thousands of Amtrak customers who could have walked through every year.



All of this is why I remain skeptical that with BPV, or the Bottle District, or the new Gateway Mall Master Plan, it will somehow be different this time.

^ Yes. And I think that it was Brett Hull's for a brief time in the early 1990s.