urbanSTL

I have to agree that Union Station has lost a great of appeal when it comes to retail. The management has done a very poor job of retaining good merchants and some of the new merchants are disappointing to say the least. But there are still some good merchants worth checking out, like Cioccolato, an imported gourmet chocolate store. But if unless they replace the current marketing and retail development people it is pretty doubtful things will get any better. Such a shame to have such a high profile property in St. Louis and having such a disappointing crew running it. Does leave tourist with much of a good impression of St. Louis.

Do they offer free parking outside of 9:00-5:00? They should if they don't, even if people just use the place for free parking downtown, theyll at least atract more customers to the area that are more likely to stop in stores on their way out/in.

Doug wrote:Maybe the Hampton Village JC Penny's could relocate to Union Station?

Hey, now, that's my store you're taking away!

Maybe the Hampton Village JC Penny's could relocate to Union Station?

Please explain why this makes any sense at all.

MattonArsenal wrote:

Maybe the Hampton Village JC Penny's could relocate to Union Station?

Please explain why this makes any sense at all.

It doesn't.



Let's force a successful store that is already located in the city move to a spot where it's success, business, and sales will decrease probably to the point of shutting their doors.



Not sure how that would be good for the city.

When I was in graduate school, before I moved back to St. Louis, I, along with other students, colleagues, and professors attended a major international conference at Union Station.....I think 2004 (the next year it was in York England). My contingent came in from Washington DC and virtually nobody had been here before. virtually everyone stayed at the hotel at Union Station. Everyone (except for a few friends that I dragged out to Soulard) basically saw.....Union Station.....thats pretty much it. Some people walked out the door to try get away from the cracked-out fudge makers, and found that there was basically nothing to do in the immediate vicinity. They essentially got the impression that all there is to do in St. Louis is hang out in a washed up shopping mall. It sucked. I tried to tell people where to go, but they didn't want to get in a cab and take off into the unknown. I guess my point is that if Union Station is going to be successful (particularly as a conference destination) it has to have a functioning neighborhood around it. Nobody goes there because it is isolated and works like a suburban mall. You drive there, you park in a giant parking lot, you shop, you walk to your car and leave. By the way. Has anyone been to Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia? If we ever get a critical mass downtown, that model could be viable for Union Station.

Doug wrote:


Very true. The store is extremely successful. I simply would like to see another department store, besides Macy's, located in the City. Not a good idea to relocate the Penny's. Maybe in 10 years we will get Dillards back? As the loft's progress, could definitely see it happen.

I'm with you there. I'd love to see another department store move back downtown. I'd take any, but I'd love to see one that doesn't already have a presence in the area to give downtown something unique.

Doug wrote:Very true. The store is extremely successful. I simply would like to see another department store, besides Macy's, located in the City. Not a good idea to relocate the Penny's. Maybe in 10 years we will get Dillards back? As the loft's progress, could definitely see it happen.

This is probably another thought for another thread, but I'd like to see the Hampton Village JC Penney expand upward, since there are two levels of offices above the store, and they could really use the space.



Back to topic- I wish there was a better way to integrate Union Station with the rest of downtown. TGE-ATW was right- it functions too much like a suburban mall. I really think adding a residential component to the area, finding an owner dedicated to keeping up the mix of stores, and developing the surface lots in the area would go a long way toward bringing the station back. Frankly, it's depressing now, and it could be so much more.



I'd like to see another department store in the city, but I think the odds of attracting one to downtown are slim even though the retail scene is improving quickly. I'd just be happy if Macy's would expand its clothing lines at the downtown store to be comparable with suburban locations.

From what I've heard, the Hyatt is pretty successful.



I'm not sure how residential could be incorporated outside of converting some of the surrounding buildings to lofts or by building infill on nearby parking lots.

I ended up there yesterday. I'm impressed with the efforts they are taking to incorporate the history of the station - although I guess it's easy when they have plenty of space to use since the retail left! they've recently opened another mini-museum east of the grand ballroom, which they use with their guided tours, which i hear are good.



and there is some kind of improv comedy theater that's open again, further east of the grand ballroom .. anyone know anything about that?



but yeah, the general vibe in the place reminds me of st louis center 3 years ago, downbeat shoppers, even more downbeat shop owners .. but with a strange mix of people from the hotel, which is probably the only think keeping it afloat.



i agree that is the suburban mall isolation causing it to fail in the urban environment .. in the suburban mall format, the stores are close to the parking & parking is free .. the union station fails miserably in both of those regards.



a more urban approach would be adding some residential to the site, creating a better link between the metrolink station & the stores, and opening up the parking area and rejoining it with the surrounding street grid.



it would also be bitchin if they could partner up with the Blues John Davidson & his efforts to build the area, especially since alot of sports travelers stay in the hotel.



the potential of the place is huge, the hotel is gorgeous and successful, the history & restoration is excellent, the mall just sucks.



here are some pictures i took last september



the live.local.com photo of the site is cool too:

make sure you switch to "birds eye" view, on left

http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.qf42 ... %20station___

Doug wrote:Did the Chase convert to condos due to a lack of success? Then again, Chase has hotel rooms and apartments, so it might be a bad comparison. Yet, the Hyatt is a beautiful hotel so maybe some would want a unit in their Hotel?

Keep in mind that there are two components to what is currently referred to as The Chase.



There is the Chase Park Plaza - the high-rise - whose apartments are undergoing conversions to condos. Then there is the Chase Hotel - the mid-rise that fronts Lindell - which will remain a hotel.

DeBaliviere wrote:

Doug wrote:Did the Chase convert to condos due to a lack of success? Then again, Chase has hotel rooms and apartments, so it might be a bad comparison. Yet, the Hyatt is a beautiful hotel so maybe some would want a unit in their Hotel?

Keep in mind that there are two components to what is currently referred to as The Chase.



There is the Chase Park Plaza - the high-rise - whose apartments are undergoing conversions to condos. Then there is the Chase Hotel - the mid-rise that fronts Lindell - which will remain a hotel.

To slightly nitpick, the grey tower is the "Park Plaza." The red brick building on Lindell is the Chase (Hotel). Collectively, they are the "Chase Park Plaza." But, as usual, you're right, Deb.

^ I would imagine you're not the only one that would like to live in or adjacent to Union Station.



It seems like the city takes houses via eminent domain for dubious projects like QuikTrips and big box shopping, yet obvious choices like St. Louis Centre and Union Station are allowed to languish for years. Maybe that's not practical, but I just wish we could find a developer willing to maximize Union Station's full potential- and I think residential in or near the station needs to be part of the big picture.

There is one advantage to having all that extra space at Union Station: during the Mo Valley BBall Tourney schools can open temporary team stores in the slots.

Then to further confuse things, many of the hotel rooms in the Chase are being renovated to take out kitchens that were added in the first renovation. I remember back that it was a very odd mix of apartments and hotel rooms...probably in some attempt by Stallings to use HUD funds on a hotel (inappropriately).

when I moved back here 2 years ago, I looked at the Chase apartments

and THEY SUCKED. The renovation you're speaking of is when they decided to take out every other bathroom and put in a kitchen..they were like 6 x 9 ..that's also what lead to some of the strangest floor plans.. for all the amenities the Chase has to offer I couldn't belive what they offered me for living space.. and It was NOT cheap! so your point about maybe a little profiteering on the developers part makes some sense..

At tonights meeting of DLRA with Mayor Slay as the key note . The question was raised as to if there were any plans to renovate Union Station. Based on the mayors response the forecast doesn't look very good at all. Its really scary to think that another STL Center is developing right in front of are eye's and the city isn't doing a thing about it. Such a shame !