In Stadium Building Spree, U.S. Taxpayers Lose $4 Billion
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-0 ... llion.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-0 ... llion.html
^ NFL's win streak will go on, They will either get St. Louis and/or Oakland/San Jose (another alternative for Raiders) to build new stadiums or send a team or two packing to one the LA stadium(s) that will be built.
I just don't see how NFL is going to lose out, They will have new stadiums in the next five years on top of the new 49er's stadium being built, a team(s) will get to LA and they will get a huge TV deal when their current one expires and ESPN gets into the bidding war for rights.
I just think it will be laughable when Missouri state house stumbles over themselves for any NFL deal but couldn't get a export tax credit going for a cargo hub.
I just don't see how NFL is going to lose out, They will have new stadiums in the next five years on top of the new 49er's stadium being built, a team(s) will get to LA and they will get a huge TV deal when their current one expires and ESPN gets into the bidding war for rights.
I just think it will be laughable when Missouri state house stumbles over themselves for any NFL deal but couldn't get a export tax credit going for a cargo hub.
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The Rams fans have really been pumped in the dome this year, and I believe it pumps up the team. They have not lost a game at home this year, or won one on the road including pre-season games. Hopefully, ticket sales will pick up. There were still 10,000 empty seats at last night's game. This morning, someone at work asked me to contact them if I have any games I don't plan to attend so they can possibly buy my tickets.
The NFL did St. Louis Rams no favors when it re-aligned divisions in 2002, grouping St. Louis with far West teams Seattle, San Francisco, and Arizona. Usually a big component of fan attendance are fans of the other team that either travel to the AWAY game, or happen to live in the HOME team city, but grew up in the AWAY city and attend as an AWAY team fan. In the Chicago at Dallas game Monday, there were so many Chicago fans, it sounded as if the game was in Chicago on the radio.
But at the St. Louis games with Seattle and Arizona, the away fans were almost completely non-existent. Nobody is going to travel all the way from Seattle, Arizona, or San Francisco to a game here, and very few people from those cities have moved here or vice versa. When we play Midwest teams like Packers, Bears, Colts, Chiefs, Vikings, and even the Cowboys, AWAY fans show up and boost attendance.
The NFL did St. Louis Rams no favors when it re-aligned divisions in 2002, grouping St. Louis with far West teams Seattle, San Francisco, and Arizona. Usually a big component of fan attendance are fans of the other team that either travel to the AWAY game, or happen to live in the HOME team city, but grew up in the AWAY city and attend as an AWAY team fan. In the Chicago at Dallas game Monday, there were so many Chicago fans, it sounded as if the game was in Chicago on the radio.
But at the St. Louis games with Seattle and Arizona, the away fans were almost completely non-existent. Nobody is going to travel all the way from Seattle, Arizona, or San Francisco to a game here, and very few people from those cities have moved here or vice versa. When we play Midwest teams like Packers, Bears, Colts, Chiefs, Vikings, and even the Cowboys, AWAY fans show up and boost attendance.
The Rams looked great in prime time last night. There were several excellent shots of downtown used, as well. At least a hundred fans stuck around for the post game show to cheer on a couple key members of our defense as they were interviewed in all, the city and the fan base looked great on television.
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Board approves terms for Atlanta stadium deal:
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georgia/ga-wor ... ium/nTRPb/
Also:
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/football ... ike/nTQhm/
"Ballpark math: If the hotel-motel tax covers about $300 million and PSLs about $100 million, the Falcons would be responsible for about $600 million. The team could be eligible for up to $200 million in loans and grants from the NFL."
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georgia/ga-wor ... ium/nTRPb/
Also:
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/football ... ike/nTQhm/
"Ballpark math: If the hotel-motel tax covers about $300 million and PSLs about $100 million, the Falcons would be responsible for about $600 million. The team could be eligible for up to $200 million in loans and grants from the NFL."
- 11K
^ Make me think we'll see something here - though it must be passed by voters. Maybe $200M from the NFL, ~$200M from new taxes and some from Kroenke and you get a modern-ized dome.
If it goes to the voters, it's dead on the water.
As a selfish NFL football fan, I'm hoping it'll go like in Atlanta and Minnesota, where they managed to come to terms and didn't need a vote.
As a selfish NFL football fan, I'm hoping it'll go like in Atlanta and Minnesota, where they managed to come to terms and didn't need a vote.
- 11K
^ could happen, but the CVC has already committed to any tax increase going to the voters - even one on hotels/rental cars/etc. We'll see.
Dan Dierdorf was on The Morning After on KFNS this morning and stated that he doesn't see *any* team moving to LA - that the NFL would strongly prefer to place expansion teams there once a stadium is built.
-RBB
-RBB
There is some rather substantial precedent for that line of thinking.rbb wrote:Dan Dierdorf was on The Morning After on KFNS this morning and stated that he doesn't see *any* team moving to LA - that the NFL would strongly prefer to place expansion teams there once a stadium is built.
-RBB
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/stor ... os-angelesCommissioner Roger Goodell says if the NFL puts a team in Los Angeles, it is probable the league would expand to 34 franchises.
Appearing Thursday night on "Costas Live" on NBC Sports Network, Goodell said the league "doesn't want to move any of our teams."
"We probably don't want to go to 33" teams by adding just one new club if a suitable stadium is built in the Los Angeles area, Goodell said.
Instead, the league would consider adding two. An odd number of teams would pose scheduling problems, including at least one club being off each week, and would create one division with five teams.
On Friday, speaking during his annual pre-Super Bowl news conference, Goodell said the NFL has not considered expansion, nor did it have immediate plans to.
"We would like to be back in Los Angeles if we can do it correctly," Goodell said.
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That's encouraging to hear. If we're talking about an investment by taxpayers in the 200 mil range, I think that's, at least fairly, doable. Any more would be a difficult sell, expecially given that we're not in a situation to be receiving any support from the state as a whole. Last year I would have said I was 75% or more sure the Rams would leave; I'm feeling more confident now that that might not end up being the case.
- 2,929
From the first AJC.com article:gary kreie wrote:Board approves terms for Atlanta stadium deal:
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georgia/ga-wor ... ium/nTRPb/
Also:
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/football ... ike/nTQhm/
"Ballpark math: If the hotel-motel tax covers about $300 million and PSLs about $100 million, the Falcons would be responsible for about $600 million. The team could be eligible for up to $200 million in loans and grants from the NFL."
This could be interesting precedence for the Jones Dome. While the contract between the CVC and the Rams stipulates its own elements, I'm sure that the actions underway in ATL will have an impact upon the Arbitration panel to convene, a panel which will include persons very familiar with other NFL stadium agreements. Utilizing the contract interpretations that the CVC already is basing its arguments (that around 51% of improvements must be provided by the NFL franchise), I bet we'll see a good deal come out of all this. Heck, I still think the CVC will offer up a whole lot of improvements, the max they can, and then be met with Kroenke offering to make improvements that will total above a 51% contribution.Officials said the Falcons will pay about 70 percent of the total cost, and revenue from the hotel-motel tax will count as the roughly 30 percent public contribution.
Under the proposed deal, the Georgia World Congress Center Authority, which is a state agency, will own the stadium. The Falcons will run the facility, and must agree to not relocate. The franchise will keep revenue generated from parking and operations, but will pay rent to occupy the stadium — which is expected to have a seating capacity of between 66,000 and 72,000.
Upon completion of the new stadium in 2017, the proposal also calls for demolishing the Georgia Dome — which hosted artistic gymnastics and basketball during the 1996 Olympic Games as well as NCAA basketball tournament games, soccer matches and rock concerts. The dome also hosted the 1994 and 2000 Super Bowls and will host the NCAA Final Four in April...
According to NFL.com, the Georgia Dome is the 10th-oldest out of the league's 32 stadiums. Falcons officials, GWCCA board members and city officials said a new stadium with a retractable roof could raise the city's profile in terms of hosting large-scale events.
In other Rams-related news...
Holy crap, the team is contending for the playoffs!
One year after going 2-14!
6-6-1 were never sweeter numbers than they are this year.
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Interesting comments from Kevin Demoff at the ongoing luncheons with Season Ticket Holders:
http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/M ... cheon.aspx
http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/M ... cheon.aspx
A shout out to Jeff Fisher and the Rams for the 2012 season. Yes, there were some "same old Rams" moments this season, but overall they're clearly a different team than the teams we've seen for the past few+ years. Considering the Seahawks were averaging 50 points a game over their last three games our defense really stepped up and shut them down for a good part of yesterday's game. Narrowly missing a victory, it was an exciting game right down to the end.
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^ Kroenke should feel good that the players did their job on the field to get taxpayers to at least think about supporting some tax increase for the dome. Another 3-13 or 5-11 would have been a big "See ya later!"
Does anyone know when an expected funding plan would be put to the voters? And would it be sales tax? I know it won't be this spring like the arch tax, but I'd love to have a menu of options to choose from to help guide regional priorities.
Does anyone know when an expected funding plan would be put to the voters? And would it be sales tax? I know it won't be this spring like the arch tax, but I'd love to have a menu of options to choose from to help guide regional priorities.
^ I think it is a wait and see attitude until the three judges rule on the arbitration. In my opinion, this how it will come down
1) Ruling goes in Rams favor,
2) Rams/CVC negotiate the top tier dollar status, probably $400-450 million is my ball park number
3) In the meantime, a competing stadium proposal floats to surface for Chrysler Site in Fenton. Rams are mum about it, lets the politics of paying for it play out.
4) State/Nixon negotiate a tax credit reform as a way to fund Rams stadium improvement in mind as Fenton proposal falls apart - In other words, state supported KC stadium improvements and likewise will only support upgrades.
5) Stan K has a big decision to make in two years, does he buy into a new LA expansion team? (has to put the RAMS up for sale) or does he pass on the steep price and takes a payout from NFL as part of the stadium upgrades?
6) The plus side of Stan K staying, it always helps to have someone who can foot a big payroll. Second, look for Stan K do what he did in Denver, become a multiple pro sport owner in St. Louis. Starting with a MLS team via Union Station development and an eye into a NHL/NBA deal for Scottrade. Simply put Stan K/DeWitt in time will own St. Louis teams if he decides to stay put.
1) Ruling goes in Rams favor,
2) Rams/CVC negotiate the top tier dollar status, probably $400-450 million is my ball park number
3) In the meantime, a competing stadium proposal floats to surface for Chrysler Site in Fenton. Rams are mum about it, lets the politics of paying for it play out.
4) State/Nixon negotiate a tax credit reform as a way to fund Rams stadium improvement in mind as Fenton proposal falls apart - In other words, state supported KC stadium improvements and likewise will only support upgrades.
5) Stan K has a big decision to make in two years, does he buy into a new LA expansion team? (has to put the RAMS up for sale) or does he pass on the steep price and takes a payout from NFL as part of the stadium upgrades?
6) The plus side of Stan K staying, it always helps to have someone who can foot a big payroll. Second, look for Stan K do what he did in Denver, become a multiple pro sport owner in St. Louis. Starting with a MLS team via Union Station development and an eye into a NHL/NBA deal for Scottrade. Simply put Stan K/DeWitt in time will own St. Louis teams if he decides to stay put.
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Read this before voting for public monies for stadiums.
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-a ... iami/4212/
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http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-a ... iami/4212/
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If it is a hotel/ticket/entertainment-type tax that is generated mostly by revenue that would have otherwise not come about but for the venue, I'm all for it. That seems to be how Atlanta is footing their share of the new stadium going up there.
- 2,929
Burwell: Demoff's Comments on Lease Reassuring for Rams Fans
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 3535f.html
READ THIS:
Good times.
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 3535f.html
READ THIS:
I think we can now properly frame the issue as not whether or not the Rams will be playing long-term in STL, or LA, or elsewhere. The issue, rather, is exactly where the Rams will be playing within the STL Metro Area. Whether or not they play in the Edward Jones Dome, or some other venue: it sure sounds like, wherever they play, they will still be in Greater STL.“The state of the franchise is as healthy as it’s been in a long time,” said Kevin Demoff, executive vice president of football operations. “But we obviously have some things out there looming, most notably the (Edward Jones Dome) arbitration that may go on through the winter and may go on into the early spring. We have to get that resolved and put at ease people’s concerns about where we’re going to play our games within St. Louis over the next 20, 30, 40 years, and then that will put that question to rest.”
Go back and read that last sentence again very, very, very slowly...
**********
Q: “Could you repeat that (last sentence slowly)?”
Demoff (laughing): “I want to ease people’s concerns about where we’re going to play within St. Louis over the next 20, 30, 40 years. ... That’s really the way we’re looking at this. I know a lot has been written and said (about Kroenke’s ultimate) intentions, but our goal from the beginning has been to get a first-class facility that makes St. Louis a destination for top-tier sporting events — Super Bowls, Final Fours, Mizzou-Illinois, college bowl games, Olympic swimming trials – all the things that we’re looking to make (the Dome) a better facility for our fans not just the eight weeks we play there, but something for our community 365 days. That’s the focus of the arbitration from our perspective and I hope that goes well.”
Good times.
While I sincerely hope you are correct, I just wouldn't put it past St. Louis's/Missouri's "powers that be," that they'd f*** this up somehow.gone corporate wrote: I think we can now properly frame the issue as not whether or not the Rams will be playing long-term in STL, or LA, or elsewhere. The issue, rather, is exactly where the Rams will be playing within the STL Metro Area. Whether or not they play in the Edward Jones Dome, or some other venue: it sure sounds like, wherever they play, they will still be in Greater STL.
- 3,433
If they are staying, why don't they just say that outright to the fans and long-time season ticket holders, rather than be coy about it? No matter what, they have to sell tickets for two more seasons in St. Louis before they can leave. I tend to think this is all designed to get us to buy tickets for those two years.
- 2,929
Agreed. This whole thing is a business negotiation, just one that happens to involve the public sector and has a client base of every Rams fan (including all those in STL and still in LA). Add-in the interesting quasi-monopolistic structure of the NFL, and their intentions to not have any teams move to new cities (i.e. LA) while encouraging the pro-NFL groups in LA. And, of course, the potential profits from an LA-based team, where TV revenues alone could pull in billions annually. It's quite reasonable to have assumed Kroenke & Co. have considered LA, but it now appears far less likely that another Rams move will happen. (Knock wood)
We've all known this would be a tough, drawn-out process, with the possibility of our City, once shell-shocked from Bill Bidwell moving the Cardiac Cardinals to Arizona, losing another NFL team to the Southwest. From what Demoff has stated, we can take hope that the Rams organization really is committed to STL. They just have to finish their dealings with the CVC, the City, the County, and the State.
I have hope that the Rams will stay in STL for the long term.
And, I hope they resign Steven Jackson. That man deserves to be on winning Rams teams going forward.
We've all known this would be a tough, drawn-out process, with the possibility of our City, once shell-shocked from Bill Bidwell moving the Cardiac Cardinals to Arizona, losing another NFL team to the Southwest. From what Demoff has stated, we can take hope that the Rams organization really is committed to STL. They just have to finish their dealings with the CVC, the City, the County, and the State.
I have hope that the Rams will stay in STL for the long term.
And, I hope they resign Steven Jackson. That man deserves to be on winning Rams teams going forward.
- 10K
He'll be back.gone corporate wrote:And, I hope they resign Steven Jackson.
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Do Rams players and staff pay 1% earnings tax to St. Louis, or does Rams corporate have a suburban address? I'm just trying to understand what the real impact to St. Louis would be if the Rams end up in Fenton, MO.