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PostMay 15, 2024#8451

RockChalkSTL wrote:
May 15, 2024
The airport is said to want to keep two MetroLink stations. 

I do not know why they would want to keep that T2 station if not for something significant. 
To everyone in general, I skratch my head on the lack of vision in regards to Metrolink but understand it is probably a cost thing and like all things St. Louis why build for the future when you just add onto the shanty in my cynical thought of one more thing that holds the region back.   Maybe Bi-State wasn't approached or maybe the made it clear that they didn't want to be involved purely an easy non decision driven by city (has full control of airport) & county politics (both in Bi-State) to keep as is.   So at end of day you keep this crappy D gate extension and old metrolink station when truly the only thing to keep intact of existing T1 is the domes themselves.  In my opinion, everything except the domes should be demo including metrolink station.  
So my two part revision to the airport ingress/egress plan
First phase, realign and drop metrolink alignment into a tunnel underneath the road with a new single airport T1/consolidated underground station.   The benefit is it allows for a future, additional westward expansion even if it never gets outside of the county.   Keeping the T1 metrolink stub end station doesn't foresee a future only the past and when T2 eventually closes it doesn't make a whole of since to wait on and pay metrolink to get from the T2 parking garage to the new terminal as noted by a few of the comments.
Second phase,  automated peopled mover.  Like a few comments noted it is a much better option for within airport and near airport facilities.  I think of SFO's automated people mover or the referenced to the new LAX version.    Like SFO, you could plan around terminal (eliminates needs for Metrolink T2 on future single concourse plan), hotel(s), rental facility and long term parking.   I think their is a hotel cluster around I-70 & Lingbergh.   Start at Lindbergh (hotel & bus line) and cover long term, TI, cover old T2 and head east to new consolidated Rental Car facility.   Break the automated into phases itself starting with getting people from T2 parking/rental cars to new T1  if rental car is on east side (2nd phase is west to long term & hotel/lindbergh Ave).   Rental car on west side, start there to T1 and extend to T2 parking garage (2nd phase from rental car west to long term parking & hotel/Lindbergh Ave)    

  

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PostMay 16, 2024#8452

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
May 15, 2024
You’d have to run a tram on top of D or something.
You're in luck, since D was built with that in mind.

As for what they could do with the airside part of T2 if they keep it and turn the landside into car rental space, I still think it'd make for a neat conference/event space, especially since they'll be taking B's event space out with the new concourse. 

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PostMay 18, 2024#8453

Total load percentages for 2023. All months and both directions combined. 

ORD and LGA are going to be partials. Some numbers I can't parse out due to shared regionals. AA/LGA is mostly mainline only so that probably pushes its number down a bit. 
Cities should be in alphabetical order.  
One thing to keep in mind is diversions factor in. So if a plane was flying Austin to Chicago and had to stop here because of storms in Chicago it is going to show up under Austin to STL and STL to Chicago, even though it shouldn't have shown up for us at all if it didn't divert. Also if a flight was Austin to STL but diverted to Kansas City. It will show up as KC to STL. I do my best to pull out obvious things that are wrong and most of the time that stuff is pretty minor but it is going to skew numbers a bit. It will be more of a factor on routes without as many flights. 

Air Canada
City Total
Toronto (YYZ) 71.86%

Alaska
City Total
Seattle (SEA) 82.70%

American
City Total
Austin TX (AUS) 66.54%
Boston MA (BOS) 78.19%
Cancun MX (CUN) 79.71%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 83.47%
Chicago IL (ORD) 75.25%
Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW) 83.34%
Los Angeles CA (LAX 78.17%
Miami FL (MIA) 83.60%
New York NY (LGA) 61.50%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 79.19%
Phoenix (PHX) 81.92%
Washington DC (DCA) 76.37%

Delta
City Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 84.89%
Detroit MI (DTW) 83.22%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 74.60%
New York NY (LGA) 78.78%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 79.93%

Frontier
City Total
Cancun MX (CUN) 84.59%
Denver CO (DEN) 68.92%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 80.27%
Orlando FL (MCO) 77.38%
Montego Bay (MBJ) 51.90%
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 82.32%
Tampa FL (TPA) 52.92%

Lufthansa
City Total
Frankfurt GER (FRA) 81.01%

Southwest
City Total
Atlanta GA (ATL) 71.27%
Austin TX (AUS) 74.20%
Baltimore MD (BWI) 73.29%
Boston MA (BOS) 85.79%
Cancun MX (CUN) 90.26%
Charleston SC (CHS) 84.01%
Charlotte NC (CLT) 71.90%
Chicago IL (MDW) 61.58%
Cleveland OH (CLE) 73.25%
Columbus OH (CMH) 70.46%
Dallas TX (DAL) 71.56%
Denver CO (DEN) 79.60%
Des Moines IA (DSM) 69.81%
Destin FL (VPS) 89.75%
Detroit MI (DTW) 69.18%
Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) 82.76%
Ft. Myers FL (RSW) 84.48%
Houston TX (HOU) 73.01%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 85.44%
Kansas City MO (MCI) 69.48%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 85.75%
Little Rock AR (LIT) 63.65%
Long Beach CA (LGB) 89.28%
Los Angeles CA (LAX) 81.64%
Miami FL (MIA) 86.21%
Milwaukee WI (MKE) 76.41%
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 68.47%
Montego BAY JM (MBJ) 87.06%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 87.23%
Nashville TN (BNA) 68.99%
New Orleans LA (MSY) 74.02%
New York NY (LGA) 70.34%
Oakland CA (OAK) 85.67%
Oklahoma City OK (OKC) 75.39%
Omaha NE (OMA) 79.99%
Orange County CA (SNA) 92.55%
Orlando FL (MCO) 81.80%
Panama City FL (ECP) 83.78%
Pensacola FL (PNS) 84.56%
Philadelphia PA (PHL) 81.13%
Pittsburgh PA (PIT) 70.44%
Phoenix AZ (PHX) 83.83%
Portland OR (PDX) 92.17%
Punta Cana DR (PUJ) 91.61%
Raleigh NC (RDU) 81.09%
Sacramento CA (SMF) 92.12%
Salt Lake City UT (SLC) 87.44%
San Antonio TX (SAT) 77.11%
San Deigo CA (SAN) 89.85%
San Jose CA (SJC) 90.16%
San Juan PR (SJU) 90.74%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 78.67%
Seattle WA (SEA) 90.90%
Tampa FL (TPA) 85.13%
Tulsa OK (TUL) 63.25%
Washington DC (DCA) 76.96%
Wichita KS (ICT) 67.87%

Spirit
City Total
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 77.70%
Orlando FL (MCO) 81.40%

Sun Country
City Total
Minneapolis MN (MSP) 70.72%

United
City Total
Chicago IL (ORD) 82.78%
Denver CO (DEN) 85.49%
Houston TX (IAH) 82.86%
Newark NJ (EWR) 78.26%
Washington DC (IAD) 82.74%

Allegiant - BLV
City Total
Destin/FWB FL (VPS) 82.76%
Fort Lauderdale FL (FLL) 83.97%
Jacksonville FL (JAX) 84.07%
Las Vegas NV (LAS) 83.55%
Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) 86.25%
Orlando/Sanford FL (SFB) 86.76%
Pheonix/Mesa AZ (AZA) 90.05%
Punta Gorda FL (PGD) 91.36%
Sarasota FL (SRQ) 84.74%
Savannah FL (SAV) 79.24%
St Petersburg/Tampa FL (PIE) 90.65%

Full spreadsheet:

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PostMay 20, 2024#8454

^ Good stuff as always, thanks for compiling JShank.

Just about every WN load that is in the 60s is on a route that's also flown by legacy carriers (CHI, DTW) and/or is within a 4-5.5hr drive. 

United and Allegiant load #s look great. From a personal perspective, I'd like to see Allegiant start to expand their schedule again as they service several airports close to my ultimate destination and their prices are tough to beat. 

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PostMay 22, 2024#8455

So I recently changed planes in Salt Lake City.  Lots of gates in Terminal 1 with planes packed in tight -- close to the terminal but still room for food and shops near the gates.  Large windows and tall ceilings in the concourses.  Lots of natural light.  Moving sidewalksto get to distant gates.  Close car rental within walking distance.

I assume this is the model for Lambert.
Salt Lake City Airport.jpg (356.01KiB)

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PostMay 22, 2024#8456

gary kreie wrote:
May 22, 2024
So I recently changed planes in Salt Lake City.  Lots of gates in Terminal 1 with planes packed in tight -- close to the terminal but still room for food and shops near the gates.  Large windows and tall ceilings in the concourses.  Lots of natural light.  Moving sidewalksto get to distant gates.  Close car rental within walking distance.

I assume this is the model for Lambert.
HOK, too

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PostMay 22, 2024#8457

Here is a link to a short Youtube video from 2021 explaining the advantages of their design to Salt Lakers.    Looks like they will have 72 gates for planes of all sizes with room for up to 92 gates.  

 

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PostMay 22, 2024#8458

Is consolidated car rental even being considered at Lambert?

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PostMay 22, 2024#8459

T2 seems like the perfect opportunity for a rental car HQ.

People in the know, does Lambert have space for a theoretical second terminal island like SLC? (on the off chance that STL turns it around and needs to expand heavily)

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PostMay 22, 2024#8460

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
May 22, 2024
T2 seems like the perfect opportunity for a rental car HQ.

People in the know, does Lambert have space for a theoretical second terminal island like SLC? (on the off chance that STL turns it around and needs to expand heavily)
No. They are pretty constrained by the runways there.

PostMay 22, 2024#8461

Southwest moving Portland from 2x a week to 5x a week in August/September. Slowly but surely having that route build back up.

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PostMay 23, 2024#8462

jshank83 wrote:
May 22, 2024
Southwest moving Portland from 2x a week to 5x a week in August/September. Slowly but surely having that route build back up.
Makes sense since your earlier post had them at 92%ish

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PostMay 23, 2024#8463

Great News on the PDX flights increase.

As for STL having a satellite concourse.... in the 1990s the plans were to build one out away from Concourse A (and tear down A) and connect it to T1 as TWA was growing. Today, with the new runways and the new mega terminal being built, it may be more difficult. However, STL has room to continue to built east and west with the new terminal as needed. Possibly adding a tram above or below if needed.

https://www.airporthistory.org/blue-con ... statistics

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PostMay 23, 2024#8464

There's still theoretically room for a midfield concourse too. Not that they'd ever need that much space again.

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PostMay 23, 2024#8465

matguy70 wrote:
May 23, 2024
Great News on the PDX flights increase.

As for STL having a satellite concourse.... in the 1990s the plans were to build one out away from Concourse A (and tear down A) and connect it to T1 as TWA was growing.  Today, with the new runways and the new mega terminal being built, it may be more difficult.  However, STL has room to continue to built east and west with the new terminal as needed.  Possibly adding a tram above or below if needed.

https://www.airporthistory.org/blue-con ... statistics
Fascinating. Crazy to think Saint Louis used to have real people in power with ambition. Especially in the MoLeg!

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PostJun 02, 2024#8466

Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now

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PostJun 02, 2024#8467

They don't have the resources. They're too spread out. And it's on the munis right? #Fragmentation.

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PostJun 02, 2024#8468

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now
Has been suburban neighborhoods surrounding an airport in a major rustbelt city looking like sh*t in 2024.   I'm shocked to hear this. Thanks for the genius insight, bro.

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PostJun 02, 2024#8469

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now
I know St. Louis is pretty bad and all we can do is complain/hate ourselves: but I can't think of an airport I've been to where the area around it couldn't be improved.

PostJun 02, 2024#8470

OnTheEdge wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now
Has been suburban neighborhoods surrounding an airport in a major rustbelt city looking like sh*t in 2024.   I'm shocked to hear this. Thanks for the genius insight, bro.
We need daily reminders of how much St. Louis sucks.

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PostJun 06, 2024#8471


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PostJun 07, 2024#8472

Lambert Airport panel OKs $650M in spending, much of it tied to new terminal
The panel overseeing St. Louis Lambert International Airport has signed off on $650 million in new spending, most of it tied to Lambert’s $2.8 billion plan to consolidate its two terminals into a single new passenger concourse.
“The bulk ... goes toward the new terminal and enabling projects needed to build the terminal,” Airport Director Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge said Thursday. “It’s huge.”
The St. Louis Airport Commission on Wednesday OK’d the massive package, which now goes to City Hall for consideration by aldermen and the city’s main fiscal body.
Among the biggest outlays, Hamm-Niebruegge said, is more than $100 million to design the new terminal, a new main garage, roadway improvements and other items.

The Federal Aviation Administration last year gave tentative approval to the terminal overhaul but a decision on the final go-ahead for construction from the feds and airlines serving Lambert isn’t expected until June 2026. However, Hamm-Niebruegge said, Lambert already has authority to spend money on design and related work.

Moreover, she said, the airlines, whose fees pay off the interest on bond issues funding the work, have agreed to the current $650 million package.
That follows their approval of $331 million in other projects last year, such as the razing of the long-vacant former Missouri Air National Guard complex in the footprint of the proposed consolidated terminal.

“This, in my opinion, is probably the most critical step,” she said of the two expenditures together. By approving those amounts, she said, “the airlines have said to us they believe this project should move forward.”

She said as design work progresses, “we want to make sure ... they have a comfort level” with the overall plan. In addition to bond issues and airline fees, she said, some work may be covered by federal grants.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/business/lambert-airport-panel-oks-650m-in-spending-much-of-it-tied-to-new-terminal/article_67349e8a-2426-11ef-b87c-0ba90466fde3.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

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PostJun 07, 2024#8473

dweebe wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
OnTheEdge wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now
Has been suburban neighborhoods surrounding an airport in a major rustbelt city looking like sh*t in 2024.   I'm shocked to hear this. Thanks for the genius insight, bro.
We need daily reminders of how much St. Louis sucks.
Suburban people and interests hold no punches against the City of St. Louis including the airport. I’m happy to return the favor. If I were travelling through St. Louis, I would not stay in a Natural Bridge hotel.

Outside of a narrow band of about 5 miles on either side of 40, the County is in a nose dive.

PostJun 07, 2024#8474

dweebe wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Had some time to kill before picking someone up at the airport, so drove around the portions of St. Ann, Edmundson, and Woodson Terrace near the airport and……yikes. The county needs to put more effort and energy into beautifying and activating these areas near the airport. It’s one of the welcome mats of our region and things look pretty bleak up there right now
I know St. Louis is pretty bad and all we can do is complain/hate ourselves: but I can't think of an airport I've been to where the area around it couldn't be improved.
Sure, but usually the portion directly adjacent to the airport where rental car companies and hotels operate looks decent. Not the case along Natural Bridge.

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PostJun 07, 2024#8475

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:
Jun 07, 2024
dweebe wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
OnTheEdge wrote:
Jun 02, 2024
Has been suburban neighborhoods surrounding an airport in a major rustbelt city looking like sh*t in 2024.   I'm shocked to hear this. Thanks for the genius insight, bro.
We need daily reminders of how much St. Louis sucks.
Suburban people and interests hold no punches against the City of St. Louis including the airport. I’m happy to return the favor. If I were travelling through St. Louis, I would not stay in a Natural Bridge hotel.

Outside of a narrow band of about 5 miles on either side of 40, the County is in a nose dive.
The county folks are in such denial about this too. NoCo and a lot of SoCo need serious redevelopment. The region has no plan, the county is still on an anti-density agenda like it's the 1970s. It will be interesting to see what the future holds. It's no surprise that St. Charles County is growing like crazy, while everywhere else declines. There is simply not a lot of good options for modern, affordable family housing in St. Louis County anymore.

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