urbanSTL

Chris Hayes MSNBC talked to the author in Ferguson on his show last night and was careful to point out that we shouldn't assume opinions are as monolithic as she made it sound. Outsiders sometimes assume housing patterns are only race based and people moved en mass last year. It has more to do with where friends and relatives live and where you work, and has evolved over the last 100 years. This isn't Las Vegas where folks moved in from outside last week. Other cities have whitish suburbs too, just on a smaller scale.

gary kreie wrote:Chris Hayes MSNBC talked to the author in Ferguson on his show last night and was careful to point out that we shouldn't assume opinions are as monolithic as she made it sound. Outsiders sometimes assume housing patterns are only race based and people moved en mass last year. It has more to do with where friends and relatives live and where you work, and has evolved over the last 100 years. This isn't Las Vegas where folks moved in from outside last week. Other cities have whitish suburbs too, just on a smaller scale.

Nice try, but too late. That was the cheapest shot I think I've ever seen against St. Louis. Fortunately, The New Republic doesn't exactly have the same sway as the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, so few eyes will see it.

I don't think The New Republic article gives a complete picture, but it's close enough. Keep in mind, The New Republic found ordinary people in Olivette, who expressed their viewpoints freely. They were not coersed.

St. Louisans are in major denial. And it's sad to witness. I am so glad the region is being exposed for its racial issues. Hopefully, the exposure helps the cesspool. It's really unfortunate, but I feel very validated, because I have suggested often the race problem is St. Louis' greatest Kryptonite.

If St. Louis could heal its racial problems by confronting bigotry and injustice wherever it rears its head, the result will positively trickle down to almost every facet of life in St. Louis. Unfortunately, it seems the leadership and a lot of citizens are either ill-equipped or resistant to change or are apathetic. Some people just like the status-quo.

Surely not all white people in metro St. Louis think like the Olivette sampling of people, but I would venture to say (or believe) there are a lot locals who have the same sentiments. It's evident on this urban forum board even with some members. And that's the problem (or dichotomy) with race relations in St. Louis. They know there's a problem, but it's the "others" to own.

This is how St. Louis puts its head in the sand of denial:
-"It's just a lot of misplaced anger"
-"It's bullsh*t."All of it. I don't even know what they're fighting for."
-"......the media should just stay out of it because they're riling themselves up even more."
-"The protesters like seeing themselves on TV"
-"It's just a small group of people making trouble"
-"The kid wasn't really innocent," chimed in a woman at the other end of the table (they all declined to give their names). "He was struggling with the cop, and he's got a rap sheet already, so he's not that innocent." (In essence, he deserved to die. Even though you don't know all of the facts.)
-"I don't think it's about justice for Michael Brown's family," said the teenage boy. "It's just an excuse for people to do whatever they want to do."
-"When they kill each other, we never hear about it,"
-"This is not representative of St. Louis"
-It's "those people's" fault. It's "always been like this".

Meanwhile, St. Louis' economy is the slowest growing in the Midwest. Population-growth is stagnant. Unemployment is higher than the national average. High rates of poverty, crime, disease, under-performing and unaccredited schools. Urban decay slowly spreading to outer ring suburbs due to sprawl, segregation and provincialism with nearly 100 municipalities. A flawed legal/justice system with hardened and overaggressive judges and prosecutors. Political cronyism and government corruption. And RACISM. All of it will keep St. Louis mediocre while new jobs and HQs keep going to other cities. But hey, at least there's CORTEX and Clayton.

I hope the unrest will cause St. Louis to have an honest look in the mirror because the media has truly made it look like the Old South - and in many ways..............it is.

arch city wrote:I don't think The New Republic article gives a complete picture, but it's close enough. Keep in mind, The New Republic found ordinary people in Olivette, who expressed their viewpoints freely. They were not coersed.

I agree with every point you made above, but come on. It's really convenient that no one wanted to be identified. God knows the real racists aren't exactly shy on Facebook, even with their real names attached to their ignorant, vituperative comments.

I think it is absolutely despicable to interview a handful of people in a shopping center and try to portray their comments as opinions that are held by a majority of people in a region with almost three million residents.

This so-called journalist can go to Hell as far as I'm concerned. She's another smug Washington elitist looking down on the little people outside The Beltway. She couldn't find Ferguson (or St. Louis) without GPS (because Flyover Country). At least her words are worth no more than the paper on which it's printed or the bandwidth it consumes. There are much more constructive and frank analyses of St. Louis' decades-long struggles with racism out there in my opinion.

Also, the source isn't exactly unbiased, but I suppose we all believe whatever we want to believe these days anyway.

All of that said, let me reiterate that I think you made very good points above. Whatever happens from here, I hope and wish our leaders will take a long, hard look in the mirror. I think you and I know better, though.

arch city wrote:You are entitled to your disgust with the reporter, but I don't see her the same as the Al Jazeera writer who put St. Louis and America on blast with her thinly-veiled commentary about a year ago..

I can't remember the details of that article, but I do recall not seeing much of a problem with it. Anyway, Sarah Kendzior is a member of the community (with a kid in SLPS) and someone that I think brings an important perspective to things in Saint Louis.

roger wyoming II wrote:Funny to see Martha Radditz on ABC two times ask the governor about the conduct and training of "your police officers" when she was meaning Ferguson and County police. Like Gov. Cuomo could ever sideline NYC police and put the New York State Patrol in charge. Just one example of some pretty stupid coverage from national (and local) media. And as for Nixon, he deserves some level of criticism and his public pressers have been hard to watch, but he did make a pretty decisive and helpful move that has a powerful faction of the county establishment angry.

I've joked elsewhere that a good drinking game is to take drink every time Nixon says "Missour-ah". I was telling some friends about it last night and we also joked as to how many drinks you had to take every time Nixon has the "deer in the headlights" look.

roger wyoming II wrote:Funny to see Martha Radditz on ABC two times ask the governor about the conduct and training of "your police officers" when she was meaning Ferguson and County police. Like Gov. Cuomo could ever sideline NYC police and put the New York State Patrol in charge. Just one example of some pretty stupid coverage from national (and local) media. And as for Nixon, he deserves some level of criticism and his public pressers have been hard to watch, but he did make a pretty decisive and helpful move that has a powerful faction of the county establishment angry.

it was pretty frustrating for her not to be informed prior to the interview that it was the St. Louis County police that had been using aggressive militaristic tactics, whom the governor removed from the lead. that's a pretty key part of this story. it was frustrating to me, not because she was pestering Nixon or getting some local names wrong, but because of the national media's (and local media's) inability to understand and communicate key facts on the ground of any story really. it makes you realize how much they might be misportraying about events everywhere, all the time. not because of biases necessarily, but because of ignorance.

STLEnginerd wrote:^The quotes aren't all that offensive and are probably accuarte representation of the general sentiment of NON-Black (I wouldn't generalize as "white") opinions in greater St. Louisans. The issue I have with it is all the between the lines editorializing.

For context remember this is right after a bunch of rioting looting and vandalism and yes that is a little scary to people.

I don't appreciate the author taking comments from a few random people who happen to be white, spinning them as racist, and them attributing them to the white race of an entire region. That is a hit piece and its shameful.

What Arch City said about the article from The New Republic is fair enough. However, I think you nailed the real problem with the article: the absolutely obvious editorializing within it. She couldn't find one person willing to identify themselves in a busy shopping center, and she didn't hesitate to inject a lot of her personal inferences and emotions into the article. It is shameless, worthless, hit-and-run, hack journalism at its worst.

arch city wrote:I don't think The New Republic article gives a complete picture, but it's close enough. Keep in mind, The New Republic found ordinary people in Olivette, who expressed their viewpoints freely. They were not coersed.

St. Louisans are in major denial. And it's sad to witness. I am so glad the region is being exposed for its racial issues. Hopefully, the exposure helps the cesspool. It's really unfortunate, but I feel very validated, because I have suggested often the race problem is St. Louis' greatest Kryptonite.

If St. Louis could heal its racial problems by confronting bigotry and injustice wherever it rears its head, the result will positively trickle down to almost every facet of life in St. Louis. Unfortunately, it seems the leadership and a lot of citizens are either ill-equipped or resistant to change or are apathetic. Some people just like the status-quo.

Surely not all white people in metro St. Louis think like the Olivette sampling of people, but I would venture to say (or believe) there are a lot locals who have the same sentiments. It's evident on this urban forum board even with some members. And that's the problem (or dichotomy) with race relations in St. Louis. They know there's a problem, but it's the "others" to own.

This is how St. Louis puts its head in the sand of denial:
-"It's just a lot of misplaced anger"
-"It's bullsh*t."All of it. I don't even know what they're fighting for."
-"......the media should just stay out of it because they're riling themselves up even more."
-"The protesters like seeing themselves on TV"
-"It's just a small group of people making trouble"
-"The kid wasn't really innocent," chimed in a woman at the other end of the table (they all declined to give their names). "He was struggling with the cop, and he's got a rap sheet already, so he's not that innocent." (In essence, he deserved to die. Even though you don't know all of the facts.)
-"I don't think it's about justice for Michael Brown's family," said the teenage boy. "It's just an excuse for people to do whatever they want to do."
-"When they kill each other, we never hear about it,"
-"This is not representative of St. Louis"
-It's "those people's" fault. It's "always been like this".

Meanwhile, St. Louis' economy is the slowest growing in the Midwest. Population-growth is stagnant. Unemployment is higher than the national average. High rates of poverty, crime, disease, under-performing and unaccredited schools. Urban decay slowly spreading to outer ring suburbs due to sprawl, segregation and provincialism with nearly 100 municipalities. A flawed legal/justice system with hardened and overaggressive judges and prosecutors. Political cronyism and government corruption. And RACISM. All of it will keep St. Louis mediocre while new jobs and HQs keep going to other cities. But hey, at least there's CORTEX and Clayton.

I hope the unrest will cause St. Louis to have an honest look in the mirror because the media has truly made it look like the Old South - and in many ways..............it is.

I agree with most of this post. I hope this terrible situation creates a paradigm shift in this area and our country; hopefully something good comes of this.

By Prof Gerald Early of WUSTL. It links to the RFT article from 2008 about Metrolink bringing crime.

Time.com - Why Ferguson Was Ready to Explode

Enter this iron triangle of control, neglect and racial alienation, and one uncovers several recent racial narratives that should have warned St. Louisans about what was coming—narratives about crossing the racial divide here. Metrolink, St. Louis’s light rail system, completed its second line in 2006. It provided African Americans of East St. Louis, one of the poorest cities in the country, and of north St. Louis county much easier access to the St. Louis Galleria Mall and the central cultural corridor of the city, including the hip Delmar Loop district. Concurrently, the Galleria has since seen an astronomical increase in shoplifting, and there has also been an increase in general crime and hooliganism in the Delmar Loop. This has led many to think that the Metrolink, as it has crossed racial boundaries, has enabled African American teenaged crime. This vicious cycle of young African Americans’ antisocial hostility and acting out, hardly unique to African Americans or even to Americans, and ever increasing white fear and barricade building, have intensified racial tensions, as people find the problem intractable and increasingly impossible to discuss honestly. The current riot in Ferguson is largely a war between police and the young African Americans who think cops exist mostly to prevent African American from harming whites.

http://time.com/3111727/ferguson-missou ... egregated/

quincunx wrote:By Prof Gerald Early of WUSTL. It links to the RFT article from 2008 about Metrolink bringing crime.

Time.com - Why Ferguson Was Ready to Explode

Enter this iron triangle of control, neglect and racial alienation, and one uncovers several recent racial narratives that should have warned St. Louisans about what was coming—narratives about crossing the racial divide here. Metrolink, St. Louis’s light rail system, completed its second line in 2006. It provided African Americans of East St. Louis, one of the poorest cities in the country, and of north St. Louis county much easier access to the St. Louis Galleria Mall and the central cultural corridor of the city, including the hip Delmar Loop district. Concurrently, the Galleria has since seen an astronomical increase in shoplifting, and there has also been an increase in general crime and hooliganism in the Delmar Loop. This has led many to think that the Metrolink, as it has crossed racial boundaries, has enabled African American teenaged crime. This vicious cycle of young African Americans’ antisocial hostility and acting out, hardly unique to African Americans or even to Americans, and ever increasing white fear and barricade building, have intensified racial tensions, as people find the problem intractable and increasingly impossible to discuss honestly. The current riot in Ferguson is largely a war between police and the young African Americans who think cops exist mostly to prevent African American from harming whites.

http://time.com/3111727/ferguson-missou ... egregated/

This is lazy writing. In order to bolster the case that Metrolink brings crime, the author is lumping increases in crime in the Delmar Loop with a spike in shoplifting at the Galleria after the opening of the cross county extension in 2006. The suggestion is that the Delmar station opened at the same time as the Galleria station and both stations spurred an increase in crime. The author even refers to the Delmar Loop as being "six stations up from Galleria." Of course anyone at all familiar with Metrolink knows that the Delmar Loop station opened in 1993, 15 years before it supposedly directly contributed to an increase in crime. However, since this fact doesn't support the author's premise that Metrolink brings an immediate increase in crime, it is conveniently omitted.

This is pretty interesting. It is a summary of how other countries are reporting on Ferguson as representative of the US.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... -ferguson/

"There are plenty of foreign journalists reporting on Ferguson, however, and for them, Ferguson is international news. Their coverage of the shooting of Michael Brown and the subsequent unrest can offer a refreshing viewpoint on America's many problems. They can also reveal a lot about how such disturbances are viewed at home."

Although it took me a few days, I completely agree with arch city. St Louis has REAL problems. However, it has been given an absolutely GOLDEN opportunity to fix them. If St Louis was to capitalize on this, improve race relations, etc, that would be an incredible story. The ball is in St Louis' court now, and what you choose to do with it is completely up to you. St Louis has such unbelievable potential. It really hurts to see the city falling from grace like it is right now.

^ Unfortunately, I think this will further splinter the city along lines of race and class.