St. Louis in the National Media

gary kreie · PostAug 19, 2014#3262014-08-19T02:42+00:00

Chalupas54 wrote:Although it took me a few days, I completely agree with arch city. St Louis has REAL problems. However, it has been given an absolutely GOLDEN opportunity to fix them. If St Louis was to capitalize on this, improve race relations, etc, that would be an incredible story. The ball is in St Louis' court now, and what you choose to do with it is completely up to you. St Louis has such unbelievable potential. It really hurts to see the city falling from grace like it is right now.

That is exactly what this editorial in today's Post Dispatch offers as a ray of hope:

“Whenever there is a major event that is not positive, it always accelerates change.”
That’s what Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings told the Dallas Morning News last year as the city prepared to mark the 50th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/co ... a9a11.html

Chalupas54 · PostAug 19, 2014#3272014-08-19T03:09+00:00

goat314 wrote:^ Unfortunately, I think this will further splinter the city along lines of race and class.

If true, how can we change it?

PostAug 19, 2014#3282014-08-19T03:17+00:00

Also, As It Happens (CBC) is interviewing someone from the St Louis area, is saying that the only way the violence will end is through bloodshed...disturbing and sad. Also, mentioned that most of the violent protestors are not from the St Louis Area.

goat314 · PostAug 19, 2014#3292014-08-19T03:40+00:00

Ex-St. Louis player on racial violence: 'Still the South

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... rit=206567

DogtownBnR · PostAug 19, 2014#3302014-08-19T13:39+00:00

Not sure if this question has been posed and maybe it is too early to tell, but it has to be on the minds of STL boosters like us.

Regarding the Mike Brown situation:

*What will be the economic impact on STL going forward?
*What will be this do to our image long term and in the short term (I think we know that answer) ?
*Will this hurt tourism over the long haul?
*Will STL be perceived as a bad place for African Americans or immigrants as a whole after this?
*Will the people of Ferguson rebuild their City and truly look to change the way they run their City?
*What will be the economic impact locally, for not only the businesses but the public? Obviously, somebody has to pay for all of this law enforcement and the endless overtime hours paid to officers. Would this be paid by STL County, the State, FEMA or some other agency?

Just thinking to the future, these questions come to mind. . . .

moorlander · PostAug 19, 2014#3312014-08-19T13:49+00:00

goat314 wrote:Ex-St. Louis player on racial violence: 'Still the South

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... rit=206567

That's sad to hear about StL and Clayton in the 60's.

Anyone comparing StL to the South hasn't spent enough time in the South.

imperialmog · PostAug 19, 2014#3322014-08-19T13:57+00:00

moorlander wrote:
goat314 wrote:Ex-St. Louis player on racial violence: 'Still the South

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... rit=206567

That's sad to hear about StL and Clayton in the 60's.

Anyone comparing StL to the South hasn't spent enough time in the South.

I just keep thinking the racial problems in the area are a combination of a couple regional patterns combined with unique local aspects related to fractured government. That maybe some of the problem is to expect the solution to be similar to what other areas have or had done, where it would likely need unique solutions to a rather unique local situation.

goat314 · PostAug 19, 2014#3332014-08-19T14:02+00:00

^ I also find it strange that somebody from the Detroit area would think St. Louis is racially segregated. Detroit has a history of racial segregation, a number of race riots, and a level of racial polarization and urban poverty that makes St. Louis look mild. I also would say that it is unfair to compare St. Louis to any city in the South, because that is really an insult to the South. The South in 2014 is way more integrated with better race relation than the North. Think about it the South hasn't seen major unrest since the 60s, the coasts have.

imperialmog · PostAug 19, 2014#3342014-08-19T14:12+00:00

^ this makes me think that maybe one issue with the St. Louis area is that there never was much of a flashpoint compared to other cities on the regions problems until now. Which is why any change has been glacial in nature. Maybe this will spur some action in leaders, or will set the stage for a new generation of leaders to emerge who will shake things up.

One wild card in all of this though is the Missouri Legislature, since they could wind up doing some things that are counterproductive and/or makes things worse.

dweebe · PostAug 19, 2014#3352014-08-19T16:24+00:00

How we'd cover Ferguson if it happened in another country
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/15/6005587/fe ... ssia-china

FERGUSON — Chinese and Russian officials are warning of a potential humanitarian crisis in the restive American province of Missouri, where ancient communal tensions have boiled over into full-blown violence.

"We must use all means at our disposal to end the violence and restore calm to the region," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in comments to an emergency United Nations Security Council session on the America crisis.

The crisis began a week ago in Ferguson, a remote Missouri village that has been a hotbed of sectarian tension. State security forces shot and killed an unarmed man, which regional analysts say has angered the local population by surfacing deep-seated sectarian grievances. Regime security forces cracked down brutally on largely peaceful protests, worsening the crisis.

Analysts warn the violence could spread toward oil-producing regions such as Oklahoma or even disrupt the flow of American beer supplies, some of the largest in the world, and could provide a fertile breeding ground for extremists. Though al-Qaeda is not known to have yet established a foothold in Missouri, its leaders have previously hinted at assets there.

Though Missouri is infamous abroad for its simmering sectarian tensions and brutal regime crackdowns, foreign visitors here are greeted warmly and with hospitality. A lawless expanse of dogwood trees and beer breweries, Missouri is located in a central United States region that Americans refer to, curiously, as the "MidWest" though it is nearer to the country's east.

johnnyqnola · PostAug 19, 2014#3362014-08-19T17:21+00:00

goat314 wrote:The South in 2014 is way more integrated with better race relation than the North. Think about it the South hasn't seen major unrest since the 60s, the coasts have.

The Jena Six events come to mind in Louisiana circa 2006. The truth is that race relations are still a problem nationwide. I felt it when I lived in New Orleans, and I feel it here.

gary kreie · PostAug 19, 2014#3372014-08-19T17:25+00:00

dweebe wrote:Ferguson gets blasted by the New York Times, but the St. Louis region also gets hit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/us/fe ... .html?_r=0

I thought the whole idea of using police to maintain neighborhood order, by arresting folks for breaking a window, or taking two seats on a subway, or jaywalking, came from New York and Mayor Bloomberg. And I hear some of the anarchists arrested in Ferguson are from New York. And don't they have their own choke hold case to worry about?

I do agree with the man who said that the national media is only in Ferguson because of the rioting, not the shooting or even the demonstrations. They were nowhere near the first day of demonstrations. “If it wasn’t for the looting,” said one man, who declined to give his name, “we wouldn’t get the attention.”

threeonefour · PostAug 19, 2014#3382014-08-19T18:54+00:00

gary kreie wrote:
dweebe wrote:Ferguson gets blasted by the New York Times, but the St. Louis region also gets hit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/us/fe ... .html?_r=0
I thought the whole idea of using police to maintain neighborhood order, by arresting folks for breaking a window, or taking two seats on a subway, or jaywalking, came from New York and Mayor Bloomberg. And I hear some of the anarchists arrested in Ferguson are from New York. And don't they have their own choke hold case to worry about?

I do agree with the man who said that the national media is only in Ferguson because of the rioting, not the shooting or even the demonstrations. They were nowhere near the first day of demonstrations. “If it wasn’t for the looting,” said one man, who declined to give his name, “we wouldn’t get the attention.”

Perhaps, but I believe there are some people for whom this unfortunate incident fit into their agenda. I'm not convinced the looting got the media's attention, because the first wave took place on Sunday, August 10, and the next day, Robin Williams passed away and got the vast majority of national media coverage. I didn't see significant media attention paid to St. Louis until the after-dark rioting and looting carried on for a couple of days, and when Sharpton, Jackson, etc. arrived in town. Also, at some point, social media took over. On the first night of rioting and looting, many of the players were not from Ferguson, but instead from north St. Louis and neighboring suburbs. After just a couple or so nights, there were people from outside the area who were involved. This, of course, is only my opinion, because the violence and the media coverage of it snowballed quickly, more than anyone could have every imagined.

urban_dilettante · PostAug 19, 2014#3392014-08-19T19:24+00:00

for the coastal media this is just an opportunity to reinforce the narrative that the coasts are way more enlightened than we are. never mind the concentration of wealth.

dweebe · PostAug 19, 2014#3402014-08-19T19:32+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote:for the coastal media this is just an opportunity to reinforce the narrative that the coasts are way more enlightened than we are. never mind the concentration of wealth.

Yup, they're just going to add this to the top of their "Why flyover country sucks" list.

imperialmog · PostAug 19, 2014#3412014-08-19T20:22+00:00

dweebe wrote:
urban_dilettante wrote:for the coastal media this is just an opportunity to reinforce the narrative that the coasts are way more enlightened than we are. never mind the concentration of wealth.
Yup, they're just going to add this to the top of their "Why flyover country sucks" list.

I was thinking and concerned that it would causes as much a reputation stain that lasts decades similar to what happened in Birmingham due to Bull Connor's tactics. Note that at that time Birmingham and Atlanta had similar sized metros and the divergence was then due to reputation in large part. (also, Birmingham has some rather odd aspects that make it in some respects a rust belt city due to connection with the steel industry and being more historically industrialized)

arch city · PostAug 20, 2014#3422014-08-20T02:30+00:00

It seems many of you St. Louisans are still in major denial about the racial problems in St. Louis.

Blame the media all you want, but unfortunately, NOTHING will change if there are people who keep their heads in the sand.

Yes, other cities and regions have problems, but I've had the opportunity to live in different cities - both short and long term - and I will say UNEQUIVOCALLY that St. Louis has been the most racially intense - and less racially and ethnically diverse.

St. Louis has been where - unprovoked - I have been called the N*word the most, harassed by police officers (all white) the most, spat at by whites while visiting South St. Louis, and yelled statements like, "Why don't you go back to the Northside?" on more than one occasion - ALL UNPROVOKED.

Never in Dallas, Atlanta or Houston did I have such intense experiences. EVER. Perhaps two menacing encounters with white police officers in Houston, which are even hard to fully characterize as racial.

I love how St. Louis is being slammed in the media for its racial problems. LOVE IT. Either ALL St. Louisans will address it and move towards healing, or the region will continue to die a slow death - despite a booming Central Corridor - because it's head is deep in the sand.

Then the stupid 34-year old Ferguson mayor said today, "There is no racial divide in Ferguson". In essence, "We really do have happy black folk in Ferguson". LOL! The next election can't come fast enough.

Here's another blemish. LOL! The national media is going in HARD on St. Louis and I love it. Get your sh*t together St. Louis.

goat314 · PostAug 20, 2014#3432014-08-20T03:01+00:00

^ I agree with everything you said Arch City, but unfortunately you cant change the hearts of people. I don't know what it is about St. Louis that makes it so racially polarized, even more so than the Deep South today. Personally I believe our current government structure exacerbates most of our problems (racism, sluggish economic development, infrastructure, poverty, crime etc.), fortunately the lawsuits that result from this fiasco will likely bring city, government, and state to its needs and force us to reform, whether we like it our not.

roger wyoming II · PostAug 20, 2014#3442014-08-20T03:10+00:00

arch city wrote: Then the stupid 34-year old Ferguson mayor said today, "There is no racial divide in Ferguson". In essence, "We really do have happy black folk in Ferguson". LOL! The next election can't come fast enough.

Unbelievable. I also saw that one of the officers that put the beat down on the guy they sued for bleeding on uniforms is now a city council member. The city came out with some decent action steps such as increasing diversity on police and department agencies and getting cameras, but they failed to add firing their incompetent and/or morally corrupt police chief.

Charles Jaco had a strong tweet about how pathological are region is.... I'll try to dig it up.

arch city · PostAug 20, 2014#3452014-08-20T04:11+00:00

goat314 wrote:^ I agree with everything you said Arch City, but unfortunately you cant change the hearts of people. I don't know what it is about St. Louis that makes it so racially polarized, even more so than the Deep South today. Personally I believe our current government structure exacerbates most of our problems (racism, sluggish economic development, infrastructure, poverty, crime etc.), fortunately the lawsuits that result from this fiasco will likely bring city, government, and state to its needs and force us to reform, whether we like it our not.

You can't change the hearts of people, but the people who truly want better for St. Louis and want to change their hearts need to come together GRASSROOTS style. Fu*k all of the other people who have deep hatred, bigotry and indifference in their hearts. God will deal with them.

Some people thrive on friction and dissension. But for those who want GENUINE change in St. Louis - and there are plenty of people of all races and creeds who do - they can make a great impact on St. Louis - if they have the courage. If they do well and are able to get past the initial start-up stage - people would join in eventually. But it takes money, leadership, clergy, big and small businesses, universities, the creative community etc. to get it going. But keep in mind that things won't change overnight. Healing is a long process. Think of it as doing for your children and the future of St. Louis.

The Post-Dispatch is pushing for the creation of a so-called Ferguson Commission.

roger wyoming II · PostAug 20, 2014#3462014-08-20T13:12+00:00

This piece from nextcityis virtually spot on:
http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/st-loui ... egregation

While I have not lived through the same routine oppression that statistics show many residents of Ferguson face daily (93 percent of arrests there are of black people), I do live in a metropolitan region that has literally torn itself apart to maintain certain racial relations. The overbearing geography of segregation forces all St. Louisans to inherit a region that is politically fragmented, economically fragile and culturally divided. Sometimes the divisions are hidden in plain sight, while sometimes they make headlines.

St. Louis Alderman Antonio French, who has been a leader in Ferguson this week, has long talked about the “invisible St. Louis” — the one currently in plain view — produced by segregation, poverty, deficits in public services and public policy. The region almost is doubled between its projected harmless and genial Midwestern identity and its lived reality of racial segregation, amputated urban fabric and a perversely fragmented local government.

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 20, 2014#3472014-08-20T14:19+00:00

Anyone really look at why most that are pulled over in Ferguson are black? I would bet that of the 30% that are white in Ferguson, 90% are over the age of 60 and do not drive or drive like 3000 miles a year.

STLEnginerd · PostAug 20, 2014#3482014-08-20T14:56+00:00

Anyone really look at why most that are pulled over in Ferguson are black? I would bet that of the 30% that are white in Ferguson, 90% are over the age of 60 and do not drive or drive like 3000 miles a year.

I am sure this is a contributing factor but I doubt it explains ALL the disparity. People like to cherry pick statistic to support their assertions, and both sides of any argument are often guilty of it.

roger wyoming II · PostAug 20, 2014#3492014-08-20T15:12+00:00

^ I think the critical issue here is not the precise percentages of arrest, etc., but whether the police force is professional, has diversity that is at least partially reflective of their community, and has general community trust. Obviously Ferguson comes up short in many ways on that front.

KMOX had a good story on the mayor of Dellwood and that city's effort to confront these issues proactively.... basically it realized it needed to disband its own force and contract out to the County police.

edit: here is the Dellwood story:
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/19/ ... a-buildup/

Jones voted for contracting out police services when he was an alderman because of previous problems, including lack of diversity and complaints of harassment from residents.

“We felt it was necessary to make a change to make sure our residents were safe and weren’t being harassed,” Jones says. “So now, we’re glad to have a better diversity make-up of our police department, as well as our city hall, as well as our department heads.”

Jones believes being proactive prevented what he calls problems like the Ferguson police are experiencing. He calls the Ferguson unrest a buildup.

“This is what happens when you do not take the steps to build a relationship with your community,” he says.

quincunx · PostAug 20, 2014#3502014-08-20T15:40+00:00

Washington Post - Is segregation the problem in Ferguson?

ver the last few days, punditry about Ferguson, Mo., has converged on a common, well-rehearsed narrative about segregation in St. Louis that goes back to the 19th century: whites will do whatever it takes to prevent blacks from moving into their neighborhoods, including redlining, restrictive covenants, large-lot zoning, intimidation and violence. When these ultimately fail, whites build new interstates and move en masse to the next ring of undeveloped farmland, leaving behind destitute neighborhoods with no investment or opportunity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mon ... -ferguson/

St. Louis in the National Media

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