urbanSTL

goat314 wrote:Arch City, I appreciate your commentary but I think people are really blowing this event out of proportion. 3 million people are not going to get up and leave this region because of a small riot in a marginalized suburb.

I completely agree. The actual monetary damage caused by this riot is minimal compared to others. The 2011 Vancouver Riot resulted in 5 million dollars in damages, and 400 were arrested. Like I have said before, St Louis is NOT being viewed in a negative light. St Louis is NOT a cesspool, and that is a typical St Louis Inferiority Complex comment, and it is completely untrue.

dweebe wrote:
I DVR'd all of Monday's and Tuesday's 5:30pm national news to see how this was covered. All three of the major networks identified the shooting and riots as occurring in Ferguson Missouri. If I remember correctly CBS identified Ferguson as a suburb of St. Louis while the other two said it was a city outside of St. Louis.

The only time I heard St Louis being identified as the location of the riots was Bill O'Reily saying "How will Black America respond the the rioting in the St Louis Area?" Although arch has some good points, he is coming from the perspective that all of St Louis is rioting. Also, like I have said earlier, the death of Robin Williams has trumped this story. I haven't seen one national publication report the two shootings that occurred last night.

I don't know how much value you put into Twitter chalupas but for a brief time one of the top trends in the united states was "Avoiding St. Louis". Ferguson trended worldwide but alongside it was St. Louis.

Young people don't watch Bill O'Reily or CNN. The millennials this region so desperately wants gets their news from social media. They're conflating, right or wrong, St. Louis with Ferguson.

Yeah maybe these events won't cause 3 million people to leave maybe they'll just empty out of NoCo at a faster rate for places like St. Charles.

Maybe, I'm missing something, I'm willing to consider that. St. Louis doesn't have high self-esteem to begin with, maybe that's what I'm seeing.

http://www.reddit.com/live/tdrph3y49ftn

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/lists/ferguson-riots

^ Yes, that may be true....but I also heard twice as many young people saying "we got to work together for a better future for St. Louis" and "I love St. Louis and I'm going to fight for my city". I think it is a bit cynical to assume that people that have invested so much energy, time, money and emotion in this region are going to pack up and leave because of one bad incident. These are the events we learn to build from. I also think it is silly to assume that everyone will leave North County because of this. There are many middle class Black people in North County that will not leave for any reason, just like there are hardcore patriots in St. Louis City.

Also anybody that has the mentality of avoiding St. Louis was most likely not going to stay in the region anyway. Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, New York, Miami etc. have all had numerous legitimate race riots and yet they blossom, grow, and continue to attract talent. I think St. Louis could do they same, we can use the tragedy to create an opportunity for change.

Again, the people that have invested blood, sweat, and tears in reviving the Grove, ONSL, the Loop, Downtown, Cortex, Midtown, Central West End, Maplewood, 24:1 Beyond Housing etc. etc. etc. and most recently downtown FERGUSON! are not the type of people that are just going to hop up in leave because of one bad incident. If they were we wouldn't be seeing the continued neighborhood revitalization we have seen today.

People are also overestimating how much people are paying attention to this. I'm in Florida RIGHT NOW for business and not one person has asked me about rioting, but they did ask me about Sweetie Pies, they did ask if I knew John Hamm and Nelly, they did ask how tall that Arch thingy is, and they definitely asked me how I think the Cardinals season will go. Simply put nobody is going to be talking about this in a month but self deprecating St. Louisans.

it isn't one bad incident, it's the latest in a systemic series of them. I'm not writing an obituary for north county, my parents are those middle class blacks that will continue to stay here.

My frustration is that those of us who expect this to blow over in a month, won't find the impetus to change the conditions that led to this tragic event. How long has north city continued to languish and be "their problem"? It scares me to see people reacting to this incident and north county the same way. I really don't care how Florida views St. Louis, I'm just perplexed how St. Louis can't even be publicly shamed into bettering itself. It's odd.

arch_genesis wrote:I'm just perplexed how St. Louis can't even be publicly shamed into bettering itself. It's odd.

well, in terms of this particular event i'm not sure you can come to that conclusion yet. i think there actually is a growing awareness and concern about disparity among young St. Louisans. people going on about abandoning the region over this event most certainly aren't going to be bettering anything. our hope lies in those with the conviction to stay. (though, obviously, making that choice is harder for those suffering the disparity.)

urban_dilettante wrote:

arch_genesis wrote:I'm just perplexed how St. Louis can't even be publicly shamed into bettering itself. It's odd.

well, in terms of this particular event i'm not sure you can come to that conclusion yet. i think there actually is a growing awareness and concern about disparity among young St. Louisans. people going on about abandoning the region over this event most certainly aren't going to be bettering anything. our hope lies in those with the conviction to stay. (though, obviously, making that choice is harder for those suffering the disparity.)

I think some of this has to due with the racial history of the region, since it seems to always resort to kicking cans down the road and just muddling along without any significant change. There was never the pressure for real change unlike many areas in the past, since it was overall rather quiet here in the 60s on most fronts relative to other areas. Maybe some real change can finally happen since it often takes something to do it.

Also another factor is the region does have a racial history and situation that is a bit different than most areas of the country due to geography and history causing a combination of situations that is unique. (the only other city I can think of that would be similar is Baltimore)

Also from what I have noticed, is the reaction to this among whites in the area seems to be quite different based on age on average (with the difference being born before or after 1980 or so). Has anyone else notice this? It could be a function of significant generation gap on issues along with the same disparity issues that have happened with African-Americans is starting to negatively impact millennial whites due to various factors, so they may be more sympathetic to it.

arch_genesis wrote:I don't know how much value you put into Twitter chalupas but for a brief time one of the top trends in the united states was "Avoiding St. Louis". Ferguson trended worldwide but alongside it was St. Louis.

Young people don't watch Bill O'Reily or CNN. The millennials this region so desperately wants gets their news from social media. They're conflating, right or wrong, St. Louis with Ferguson.

Yeah maybe these events won't cause 3 million people to leave maybe they'll just empty out of NoCo at a faster rate for places like St. Charles.

Maybe, I'm missing something, I'm willing to consider that. St. Louis doesn't have high self-esteem to begin with, maybe that's what I'm seeing.

I am not aware that Avoiding St Louis was trending in the US, and cannot find any source where that was trending in last few days, however #Ferguson has. I do know #Pray4STL trended for a brief period Monday morning nationwide.

Chalupas54 wrote:One thing we all can agree on, the unrest needs to stop asap. I am all for peaceful protesting, but I have zero tolerance for rioting.

I would imagine the rioters and protesters have similar things to say about police brutality and racial discrimination. I suppose we don't always get what we want.

Instead of avoiding leaving Saint.Louis how about embracing Saint.Louis. Its a city that functions like any other city. From what i know no city is perfect in this country one might be doing more than the other however doesn't mean that its better. All cities have disparities regardless.
We need to find better solutions to all of this including the state of Missouri which seems to be the biggest problem for Saint.Louis in attracting jobs attracting immigration etc.
Im not going to bash blacks cause there are more good hard working class blacks than there are bad ones.
This isn't & shouldn't be a black thing this should be a American thing i think we should say we're all guilty of hate towards one another whether you witness experienced etc. We shouldn't only be untied when tragedies like this or any other happens.
Avoiding Saint.Louis will never solve resolve anything.
People don't use their brains & often are reactive than being proactive...

please tell me they didn't just arrest national reporters.... crazy.

I would say nothing the county/Ferguson police have done so far has been a bright idea. It's mind boggling how incompetent and misguided the response has been. And all of this in response to protests about police overreach and brutality... It's either horrible judgment or just complete disorganization and chaos. Probably both.

Arrested reporter Ryan Reilly saying on MSNBC right now that an officer slammed him into the glass at the McDonald's... this is just making a bad situation even worse.

imperialmog wrote:

urban_dilettante wrote:

arch_genesis wrote:I'm just perplexed how St. Louis can't even be publicly shamed into bettering itself. It's odd.

well, in terms of this particular event i'm not sure you can come to that conclusion yet. i think there actually is a growing awareness and concern about disparity among young St. Louisans. people going on about abandoning the region over this event most certainly aren't going to be bettering anything. our hope lies in those with the conviction to stay. (though, obviously, making that choice is harder for those suffering the disparity.)

I think some of this has to due with the racial history of the region, since it seems to always resort to kicking cans down the road and just muddling along without any significant change. There was never the pressure for real change unlike many areas in the past, since it was overall rather quiet here in the 60s on most fronts relative to other areas. Maybe some real change can finally happen since it often takes something to do it. [...]

@ksdknews
Important new image in #Ferguson via @leisazigman.


This is how St. Louis deals with race relations in a nutshell, this is an "important" image, coming from our media. This is *so* St. Louis - and truthfully so midwestern, not unlike the cop/kid dance battle in KC. We don't want to have real conversations. We don't want to put in any effort to bridge divides. We just want to kick the cans down the road. Just be nice, smile, and hope this all goes away on its own - and ASAP. The denial is strong.

Why are we so incapable of confronting this, historically and today?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

Throughout this time, we asked the officers for badge numbers. We asked to speak to a supervising officer. We asked why we were being detained. We were told: trespassing in a McDonald’s.

“I hope you’re happy with yourself,” one officer told me. And I responded: “This story’s going to get out there. It’s going to be on the front page of The Washington Post tomorrow.”

And he said, “Yeah, well, you’re going to be in my jail cell tonight.”

"Is this a wakeup call for the St. Louis Metro area?" - Chris Hayes, msnbc

^ i very much hope so. i'm glad the feds and FBI are involved, and i hope this results, at the very least, in significant changes in police oversight throughout the region. more than that, i hope for the sake of the future of this region that it moves young people to actively reject the disparity that got us here.

St. Louis, a divided City

-RBB

rbb wrote:St. Louis, a divided City

-RBB

I don't get it. Most people in the StL area are white or black, and in most parts of the area a majority are one of the two dominant racial groups. What a pointless article.