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PostNov 06, 2009#1201

STLDTFAN wrote:Wonder what made this happen?



http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-lou ... -homeless/



This is where it gets ambigous as to if Post Dispatch is painting a VERY one sided story, or if this action was warranted due to safety and sanitation issues.


Interesting. And ironic: this afternoon, I walked outside my front door and literally had to push, with the door, a vagrant's belongings away where he'd set up shop in the foyer. I picked up the items and placed them in a trash can. As far as I could tell, the items are abandoned and he thought he could get away with using my front door as his sleeping/pissing area. In my opinion, he's trespassing. I will not have myself, or my neighbors, or worse, my neighbor's children have to walk out the front door and right into this hobo's living room. The last two times this has happened, the hobo got aggressive. I don't care about the fact it's their only possessions - go to a shelter, do something constructive.



It's nuts - I do not have any intention of having children, but I still view keeping my neighbor's children safe from dealing with these kind of aggressive people a community responsibility.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1202

I'm sure you're real proud of being some kind of vigilante against the "aggressive" homeless population, but these people were sleeping in a park, only to have all their worldly possessions taken from them and crushed right in front of their eyes. Compassionless people such as you are more fit in the suburbs rather than the city. These people are humans, and deserve to be treated as such.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1203

^ ^^ Clearly you both have a point. No one should have to move aside trash, bags of possessions or anything else to simply walk out their front door. Downtown residents also bear a disproportionate burden in dealing with homelessness - remember St. Louis and St. Charles County dumping their homeless in downtown? How many homeless shelters are to be found outside of St. Louis City? The region should work together on the homeless issue. Downtown should not be home to nearly all our region's homeless.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1204

There is a middle way. No need to attack each other...
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PostNov 06, 2009#1205

Grover, you're right. Homelessness is a very complicated problem, and people get in it for various reasons, and not everyone is motivated (or has the mental capacity) to escape it. I understand that public parks should not be allowed to become tent cities, but the method in which these people were removed is unacceptable.



audioguy, the reason homeless people take up in doorways and unoccupied buildings is that they have nowhere else to go. The shelters are either filled or too dangerous. So when forced removal like this takes place, they end up literally on your doorstep. Homeless people can't be turned into mailboxes like on the simpsons, they have to go SOMEWHERE. It is people like you who see this in action that should advocate most for expanded care, not thinking you can magically make them disappear, or make them someone else's problem.



Homeless people don't start out downtown, they migrate there because that's where they can receive help, and every time someone proposes a shelter in a suburb or rural area (where it would REALLY help), the nimbys come out of the woodwork and fight to the teeth to "protect" their family. It is up to everyone to take care of their own people in society, not treat them like garbage. How many people are 1 paycheck away from being homeless themselves? It's an issue that demands deep rational thinking, not short-sighted action.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1206

yarjax14 wrote:Grover, you're right. Homelessness is a very complicated problem, and people get in it for various reasons, and not everyone is motivated (or has the mental capacity) to escape it. I understand that public parks should not be allowed to become tent cities, but the method in which these people were removed is unacceptable.



audioguy, the reason homeless people take up in doorways and unoccupied buildings is that they have nowhere else to go. The shelters are either filled or too dangerous. So when forced removal like this takes place, they end up literally on your doorstep. Homeless people can't be turned into mailboxes like on the simpsons, they have to go SOMEWHERE. It is people like you who see this in action that should advocate most for expanded care, not thinking you can magically make them disappear, or make them someone else's problem.



Homeless people don't start out downtown, they migrate there because that's where they can receive help, and every time someone proposes a shelter in a suburb or rural area (where it would REALLY help), the nimbys come out of the woodwork and fight to the teeth to "protect" their family. It is up to everyone to take care of their own people in society, not treat them like garbage. How many people are 1 paycheck away from being homeless themselves? It's an issue that demands deep rational thinking, not short-sighted action.


Unfortunately, the people who can get some action on this issue are bound by either tight budgets, or having no will to resolve the issue due to their political weakness.

The "solution" for homelessness is not easy is well known. However, having the city be the only place that homeless shelters and homeless people can turn to is not the solution either. That is when you start seeing people with no place to go end up "camping" close to where they hope they can get help. If the county could provide affordable shelters, the overall homeless population could be well served. Last I checked, there is no way in hell Ladue or Clayton would allow that.

The problem is the City's. The city residents are the only ones who have to face it. If they lash out, it is not a sign of not being compassionate, but a sign of having to deal with a situation that non city residents do not. Before you (or anyone else) attack someone for their posts, please try to put yourself in their shoes.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1207

The problem has nothing to do with compassion.



Please understand that I have compassion for these people. But I won't coddle them. I understand their situation and I feel for them. Nobody should be without basic necessities, such as shelter and clothing and a job. But most of these people refuse assistance, and refuse to let go of drug/alcohol problems in order to get themselves together. At that point, I can't be compassionate towards you.



You MAY NOT set up shop in my front doorway. It isn't an abandoned building, it's a building with quarter-million dollar condos and street-level business. I will not tolerate their foul-smelling piss all over my door way, and I will not tolerate them using my front door as a storage area.



And here's the thing people don't realize unless you live with it daily like myself and gopher (who, in my opinion, I respect a hell of a lot because he's actually worked hard to make our neighborhood a better place - and to hear of him hitting his "breaking" point is personally disheartening because of that level of respect): these people are not just transients who keep to themselves.



They cause unbelievable litter problems. Have you walked through Lucas Park and cleaned up litter with your own hands? I have. I've seen the unbelievable messes these idiots leave. They sh*t and piss in every available doorway and open public space. They show no effort to keeping their mess under control.



My neighbor's kids - and gopher's son - can not use that park because it's so filthy. There are crack pipes from these idiots. Glass bottles and food waste (lots of it from the mass feedings that the Lord's servants come and do, and then they drive their way back out to the county before the cleanup even begins). There's the woman that sets up camp and gives blowjobs for drugs and alcohol in the middle of the day in front of everybody.



These people show no pride in their surroundings. They show NO RESPECT towards our neighborhood. In turn, I shall not show them any respect. I will continue to throw their garbage away so that my neighbor's kids, and gopher's son, and myself and my wife and anybody else who would like to, can continue to try to use our parks and our neighborhood as we would like to. We are investors in our downtown neighborhood, blood sweat tears and last but not least, money. Unfortunately, it's too big of a job for all of us to accomplish alone.



That's why I applaud what the park ranger did. This guy left his belongings abandoned in a public place. They were tossed. Good job. I don't care if that's all this guy owned - you can't leave litter on the ground and expect it not to be dealt with.
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PostNov 06, 2009#1208

^^^AGREED!!
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PostNov 06, 2009#1209

+1



You know, this does make me think that we should invest in public toilets - maybe outside the homeless shelters that would be cleaned regularly and well maintained. I mean, where can one poop when they don't have a home?
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PostNov 06, 2009#1210

Grover wrote:+1



You know, this does make me think that we should invest in public toilets - maybe outside the homeless shelters that would be cleaned regularly and well maintained. I mean, where can one poop when they don't have a home?


We currently invest with our tax dollars in a large public toilet, complete with a world-class stock of reading material:



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PostNov 06, 2009#1211

Grover wrote:+1



You know, this does make me think that we should invest in public toilets - maybe outside the homeless shelters that would be cleaned regularly and well maintained. I mean, where can one poop when they don't have a home?
There are. They should probably be documented on Google Maps... Practical information like this should be shared. I wonder if there is a good online resource for the homeless in St. Louis? If not, there should be.



Idea. A replica of Project Care would be beneficial for the homeless in St. Louis. Ref: http://www.grandcentral.com/about/projectcare/



This was a free service by GrandCentral. Google has since bought them out and it would fall under the Google Voice umbrella. I've got 97 Google Voice invites and would give them out to Bill Seidhoff or whomever. How are telephony needs being met for the homeless now? We can do better!


What is Project CARE?



At GrandCentral, we believe that everyone has a right to be connected. Regardless of their circumstances, every individual deserves the ability to be in touch with family, friends, potential employers - anybody. This need is particularly great, and largely unmet, in the homeless community.



GrandCentral is commited to helping those in need stay connected by offering individuals a local phone number and voicemail box for life. Through our Project CARE initiative, GrandCentral is providing, free of charge, a local phone number and voicemail box to members of the homeless community in San Francisco. We hope to extend this program nationwide as we build out our services.



Project CARE (Communications and Respect for Everybody) recognizes the desire for those in need to get back on their feet and begin a new life. An essential element to that proposition is a consistent and reliable phone number - a place where anyone (family, friends, social workers, health care providers, potential employers, etc.) can leave you a message.



No longer will the pay phone at the local shelter be the only way to reach a homeless client. Whether applying for a job, waiting for medical test results, or trying to get in touch with family, Project CARE provides homeless clients with link to the real world and an ability to connect.



Project CARE Support and Feedback: (415) 287-7400
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PostNov 06, 2009#1212

yarjax14 wrote:I'm sure you're real proud of being some kind of vigilante against the "aggressive" homeless population, but these people were sleeping in a park, only to have all their worldly possessions taken from them and crushed right in front of their eyes. Compassionless people such as you are more fit in the suburbs rather than the city. These people are humans, and deserve to be treated as such.




Our friend yarjax14 decided to give me the following private message:



"It's better that your kids be exposed to prostitution and crack pipes now, it'll save them in the long run when they have to resort to it for having such an a**hole dad."
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PostNov 06, 2009#1213

^ Interesting. It sounds like yarjax14 has such a sweet, caring disposition.
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PostNov 07, 2009#1214

wow......and he thinks he has compassion for anyone....
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PostNov 07, 2009#1215

innov8ion wrote:
Idea. A replica of Project Care would be beneficial for the homeless in St. Louis. Ref: http://www.grandcentral.com/about/projectcare/



This was a free service by GrandCentral. Google has since bought them out and it would fall under the Google Voice umbrella. I've got 97 Google Voice invites and would give them out to Bill Seidhoff or whomever. How are telephony needs being met for the homeless now? We can do better!





Project CARE Support and Feedback: (415) 287-7400


I'm 99% sure that The Bridge (formerly Centenary CARES) offers this service. I know for a fact that they offer mail drop services for the homeless, and I believe phones are part of that as well. There are many difficulties, of course, in administration, and always money.



I too get frustrated with the church feedings - Bridge offers 3 meals a day, 6 days a week, and is cleaned up on site, without littering through our city. It's only a couple blocks away too.

PostNov 07, 2009#1216

From the website directly. Full disclosure, I attend Lafayette Park United Methodist which has the same pastor (Kathleen Wilder) as Centenary.



Is there a gap with understanding what places like this offer for the homeless? I've served there several times and it is clean, safe, and welcoming to all. Maybe some homeless don't know it exists?





http://www.centenarystl.org/index2/inde ... 5&Itemid=7



Since we served our first dinner in December of 2005, many strides have been taken. We now serve 15 mealtimes a week from Sunday through Friday afternoon, totaling in excess of 3000 meals per week. We provide our guests with phone service; help them to obtain state identification cards; and offer them a safe place to form connections with others. This summer, we will be implementing an ID program that will allow guests to register emergency contact information and give them convenient access to additional services such as the internet and the onsite library. I’m proud of our past accomplishments and very excited about our future.



...



* • Food: Our kitchen currently serves in excess of 3000 meals per week.

* • Facilities: Restrooms and phones are available to the more than 500 guests who visit daily.

* • Hygiene items: The emergency pantry provides guests with soap, shampoo, tooth brushes and tooth paste, disposable shavers and other items necessary to maintaining personal cleanliness. We will soon be offering shower facilities, as well.

* • Mail Service: The Bridge provides guests a USPS address, giving them the opportunity to maintain personal relationships with family and friends and to establish contact of a business nature. (An individual must have a permanent mailing address to apply for a job.)

* • Shelter: The Bridge offers shelter from the elements and a safe place to rest and connect with others during the day.

* • Support: There are many barriers to reestablishing one’s independence. At The Bridge, guests will find volunteers to help them replace lost documents (birth certificates) and secure new ones (valid state IDs).

* • Opportunity: Computers and internet access will soon be available for those looking for jobs and who wish to communicate with friends and family via email.

* • Connectivity: As part of the Continuum of Care in St. Louis, The Bridge partners with other agencies that provide services for citizens in need. Rather than duplicate efforts, The Bridge focuses on its strengths and refers guests to other agencies when additional support is needed.

* • Fun: Human beings have an innate need for joy in their lives, no matter what their current circumstances. Each year, The Bridge hosts a Christmas party for guests and their families. This summer, a lending library will open on site. The New Day Community Choir brings together the combined voices of guests of The Bridge and other downtown agencies.
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PostNov 28, 2009#1217

The Post-Dispatch will have an article about suburban homelessness this Sunday the 29th. Check out the preview on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiwgRgLWEX4



BTW, they have a YouTube channel here: http://www.youtube.com/user/STLPostDispatch
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PostJan 20, 2010#1218

dweebe wrote:Last night around 5:30 I was sitting at the stoplight at Jefferson and Gravois with my window down talking on the phone. (Normally I use a bluetooth headset when driving but the battery is dead.)



All of a sudden this guy on foot comes from the other side of Jefferson and is yelling at me and waving his arms. He wants to borrow my cellphone to call his mom to come pick him up because the buses are "f*cked up" and not running on time. Before I know it he's reaching into my car and trying to grab my phone. Worst of all I'm trapped with cars on all sides of me. I push him back twice but he keeps reaching into the car even though I've now thrown the phone into the far corner of the back seat. He keeps demanding to borrow the phone and then tells me I've "gotsa gib 'm cash for the damages I caused". Finally the light turns green as I'm getting the window up and I'm able to drive away while he yells at me.



I drive a few blocks and then at Jefferson and Arsenal I call 911. I wait there and stand outside the car for 22 minutes until 6pm and the police never come. Two cops cars drive by. I even yelled and waived my hands at the 2nd one but he continued driving down Jefferson while yapping on his cell.



I'm still pissed. Never even got a follow-up call.
Roll the window up and crush his arm. Then call 911.
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PostJan 20, 2010#1219

To go with my other thread saying I'm now legally armed, he would have had a 38 in his face in about 5 seconds. Carrying is not in the least uncomfortable for me at all.
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PostJan 21, 2010#1220

yeah, I agree.. Roll the window up and drag him for a few blocks.. these idiots are ruining our city. who in the hell wants to deal with people like that. Makes me think of the conversation I had with a friend the other day on why he refuses to live in the CWE after just moving back here from NYC! He said that there, he was willing to "put up with that crap/panhandling, etc" but in St. Louis, why would he? He does have somewhat of a valid point, although I have experienced ZERO negatives/crime in the CWE.

PostJan 21, 2010#1221

oh and to the TARDS that give panhandlers money, you are also negatively contributing to the general health and well being of different areas/neighborhoods of the city. Give to a shelter. save you little pat on the back/i'm so great I gave $1 for the birds...
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PostFeb 04, 2010#1222

I've seen way too much public urination in the last two weeks or so.
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PostFeb 04, 2010#1223

DeBaliviere wrote:I've seen way too much public urination in the last two weeks or so.
Sorry about that.
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PostApr 20, 2010#1224

The Post-Dispatch reports on the latest developments with the tunnel-dwellers downtown:

Standoff over tunnel life
Since January, though, the tunnel’s population has ballooned. And now it appears the city and Rev. Larry Rice are at a standoff.
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PostMay 06, 2010#1225

One day last week, while loading my groceries into my car at the Lindell Schnucks, a woman approached me and asked for money for gas to get home. She said she had her groceries in her car but didn't have enough gas to get home. Of course, I turned her down. Tonight I was a block away at Office Depot and the same woman approached me with the same request, except she added that she didn't know if her kids had been picked up. Again, I turned her down. Both times she pointed across the parking lot and stated that her car was, "Right over there." If she approaches me at Walgreens next week I'm going to tell her to start working a different corner.
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