St Louis Homeless and Panhandlers

streetsabby · PostAug 28, 2009#11762009-08-28T04:34+00:00

innov8ion wrote:
streetsabby wrote:
MattnSTL wrote:Yes, we do. They call it "Real Change" here.

I have seen signs posted in the CWE. Do they also have meters set up? How does "Real Change" work? Maybe that's something we could try to do Downtown?
Thanks for the idea! Please contribute to the convo here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saint-Lou ... 298?ref=mf

Great! I will contribute for sure! In my opinion, this is an idea that could work and make everyone (sometimes) happy. I think there would have to be quite a bit of meters up with better signage. I realize this all costs money and a lot of permit/paper work. I saw the one in front of the Coffee Cartel tonight. I can see people walking by it and not giving it a second look...looks too much like a parking meter. Perhaps some arts organization could have kids paint the meters to make them stand out as different and draw people towards them (for example). Also, the little sign on the inside says 100% of the money goes for food and education, but it doesn't say to who. I do think it should somehow state who is getting this food and education. I didn't spend too much time examining the thing so maybe I failed to read something else. But if I did read it correctly anyone could think it was some sort of prank or a student performance art project, etc. I think this really is a great idea though and could be a step in the right direction. Kudos to whoever originally thought about it! Does anyone know if the Coffee Cartel spot is the only one in STL so far?

southcitygent · PostAug 28, 2009#11772009-08-28T15:42+00:00

I believe there is one by Left Bank Books on Euclid as well.

gopher · PostAug 30, 2009#11782009-08-30T14:32+00:00

You want real change?

Stop giving free stuff to the bums.

Starvation is a very good incentive to get your sh*t together.

southsidepride · PostAug 31, 2009#11792009-08-31T13:30+00:00

gopher wrote:You want real change?

Stop giving free stuff to the bums.

Starvation is a very good incentive to get your sh*t together.

that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at things. Most "bums" as you call them, have some sort of mental illness. What they need more than spare change or a lecture on bootstraps is care that only organizations that specifically work with these problems can provide.

meteo · PostAug 31, 2009#11802009-08-31T15:45+00:00

southsidepride wrote:Most "bums" as you call them, have some sort of mental illness. What they need more than spare change or a lecture on bootstraps is care that only organizations that specifically work with these problems can provide.

That is what appeals to me about the Real Change program. It gives people a good outlet donate money (into the meter) in an area the same as or very near where they might have given directly to a homeless person instead. The money still goes to benefit the homeless, going to an organization that works with them (hopefully someone like the St. Patrick's Center).

jcity · PostSep 01, 2009#11812009-09-01T01:48+00:00

that's a pretty simplistic way of looking at things. Most "bums" as you call them, have some sort of mental illness.

some might, but most of the ones I encounter, especially those in the median on Forest Park Parkway and on Lindel/Skiner look 100% capable of getting some time of job. I loved the one on a cell phone; that was my personal fave! They know they can beg for money and get up to $20,000 per year tax free because idiots give them money. give to the shelters. i LOVE the parking meters, especially because it is such an in-your-face example of how it is WRONG to give money to beggars.

publiceye · PostSep 01, 2009#11822009-09-01T13:16+00:00

it is WRONG to give money to beggars

Or not.

It may not be "good public policy," but most major religions -- Christian and non-Christian -- have "give to everyone who begs from you" as an instruction to their faithful. I cannot find any subsequent instruction that requires (or even recommends) due diligence to ensure that the charity is spent according to the donor's wishes.

doug · PostSep 02, 2009#11832009-09-02T13:16+00:00

Jesus said "blessed are you who are poor," while "give us this day our daily bread" specifically refers to the poverty inherent in his time. For further reading.

Alex Ihnen · PostSep 02, 2009#11842009-09-02T18:26+00:00

^ Yes, but this is my favorite:

Matthew 11:19

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

framer · PostSep 03, 2009#11852009-09-03T07:09+00:00

How 'bout this one:

Mathew 19:12

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb; and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men; and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

dweebe · PostSep 04, 2009#11862009-09-04T17:18+00:00

Last night around 5:30 I was sitting at the stoplight at Jefferson and Gravois with my window down talking on the phone. (Normally I use a bluetooth headset when driving but the battery is dead.)

All of a sudden this guy on foot comes from the other side of Jefferson and is yelling at me and waving his arms. He wants to borrow my cellphone to call his mom to come pick him up because the buses are "f*cked up" and not running on time. Before I know it he's reaching into my car and trying to grab my phone. Worst of all I'm trapped with cars on all sides of me. I push him back twice but he keeps reaching into the car even though I've now thrown the phone into the far corner of the back seat. He keeps demanding to borrow the phone and then tells me I've "gotsa gib 'm cash for the damages I caused". Finally the light turns green as I'm getting the window up and I'm able to drive away while he yells at me.

I drive a few blocks and then at Jefferson and Arsenal I call 911. I wait there and stand outside the car for 22 minutes until 6pm and the police never come. Two cops cars drive by. I even yelled and waived my hands at the 2nd one but he continued driving down Jefferson while yapping on his cell.

I'm still pissed. Never even got a follow-up call.

juiceinkirkwood · PostSep 04, 2009#11872009-09-04T23:35+00:00

dweebe wrote:Last night around 5:30 I was sitting at the stoplight at Jefferson and Gravois with my window down talking on the phone. (Normally I use a bluetooth headset when driving but the battery is dead.)

All of a sudden this guy on foot comes from the other side of Jefferson and is yelling at me and waving his arms. He wants to borrow my cellphone to call his mom to come pick him up because the buses are "f*cked up" and not running on time. Before I know it he's reaching into my car and trying to grab my phone. Worst of all I'm trapped with cars on all sides of me. I push him back twice but he keeps reaching into the car even though I've now thrown the phone into the far corner of the back seat. He keeps demanding to borrow the phone and then tells me I've "gotsa gib 'm cash for the damages I caused". Finally the light turns green as I'm getting the window up and I'm able to drive away while he yells at me.

I drive a few blocks and then at Jefferson and Arsenal I call 911. I wait there and stand outside the car for 22 minutes until 6pm and the police never come. Two cops cars drive by. I even yelled and waived my hands at the 2nd one but he continued driving down Jefferson while yapping on his cell.

I'm still pissed. Never even got a follow-up call.

I'll probably take a lot of heat for this, but most experiences I've had with calling the police in the city have shown how little they seem to give a sh*t.

streetsabby · PostSep 05, 2009#11882009-09-05T07:40+00:00

JuiceInDogtown wrote:
dweebe wrote:Last night around 5:30 I was sitting at the stoplight at Jefferson and Gravois with my window down talking on the phone. (Normally I use a bluetooth headset when driving but the battery is dead.)

All of a sudden this guy on foot comes from the other side of Jefferson and is yelling at me and waving his arms. He wants to borrow my cellphone to call his mom to come pick him up because the buses are "f*cked up" and not running on time. Before I know it he's reaching into my car and trying to grab my phone. Worst of all I'm trapped with cars on all sides of me. I push him back twice but he keeps reaching into the car even though I've now thrown the phone into the far corner of the back seat. He keeps demanding to borrow the phone and then tells me I've "gotsa gib 'm cash for the damages I caused". Finally the light turns green as I'm getting the window up and I'm able to drive away while he yells at me.

I agree!

I drive a few blocks and then at Jefferson and Arsenal I call 911. I wait there and stand outside the car for 22 minutes until 6pm and the police never come. Two cops cars drive by. I even yelled and waived my hands at the 2nd one but he continued driving down Jefferson while yapping on his cell.

I'm still pissed. Never even got a follow-up call.

I'll probably take a lot of heat for this, but most experiences I've had with calling the police in the city have shown how little they seem to give a sh*t.

I agree!

innov8ion · PostSep 06, 2009#11892009-09-06T02:32+00:00

^ If you call them after you've died, you'll be sure to get their attention. I tried it once. It worked!

audioguy09 · PostSep 06, 2009#11902009-09-06T18:32+00:00

I've been noticing the homeless problem in Lucas Park becoming very weird; did anyone notice the guy with an entire campsite setup?

I park in the Shell Building, and have noticed possible evidence that the homeless might be coming inside during the night. Liquor containers/beer bottles/food trash. The vast majority of people that park there are residents, and I think generally take better care of their surroundings than that.

gopher · PostSep 06, 2009#11912009-09-06T18:49+00:00

audioguy09 wrote:I've been noticing the homeless problem in Lucas Park becoming very weird; did anyone notice the guy with an entire campsite setup?

That wasn't a campsite... it was a 44,000 sq. foot studio apartment. Complete with Jacuzzi Bath / Washing Machine. 10+ bathrooms, easy walking distance to panhandling, excellent breezeway. Close to nature. TIF financing available.

The guy was hanging a poster of the "Godfather III" up on the tree. He had a nightstand setup along with a living room.

I called the Park Ranger and they stayed out there and waited until the guy "moved" his "home".

And yes... the bums have been entering the garage at night and using it for a urinal, home, and "dumping" ground in the truest sense of the word. That door needs to get a code placed on it. EMS was out there this morning removing a guy who was sleeping there. Of course, that just means that they are now sleeping in the alcove of La Buena Salud (old downtown children's center entrance... again).

We've had a lot, and I mean a LOT of altercations down there with some very aggressive bums. When the park ranger came, the guy with the "apartment" showed his knife to the ranger and then once done moving his stuff was making some calls on his cell phone.

streetsabby · PostSep 06, 2009#11922009-09-06T21:18+00:00

Me and a friend of mine went into the tunnel under Tucker to explore a few years ago. There was someone who had the most extravagant set-up I've ever seen. Complete with a rock stairs lined with plastic flowers, a pallet for a headboard, a nightstand, rock wall room dividers, cheesy paintings of clowns and flowers, a little breakfast nook, and a bathroom with a bucket. The person wasn't at home at the time. I wish I would have had a camera to take a picture. It was actually really creative and considering the situation, clean and tidy.

PostSep 06, 2009#11932009-09-06T21:22+00:00

By the way, that photo of the park without the trees looks like a barren wasteland in my opinion.

framer · PostSep 07, 2009#11942009-09-07T04:38+00:00

Check out this Berenice Abbott photo of a squatter's camp in depression era New York (click on the photo to enlarge):

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigi ... um=&pos=21

gopher · PostSep 07, 2009#11952009-09-07T06:18+00:00

streetsabby wrote:By the way, that photo of the park without the trees looks like a barren wasteland in my opinion.

You can help us next year by planting. We would greatly appreciate any and all support in helping to clean and beautify the park. The neighbors and I are out there each and every day, and it takes a lot of work to maintain and keep it clean.

I'm sorry you think it's a barren wasteland, it will get better... however...

The trees in question had to be removed because:

1) They were diseased and a dangerous.

2) The sidewalk on 14th must be made ADA compliant.

This is what happens when we have neglect and abuse of a park for nearly 40 years. That's what should be sad. That's what you should be angry about. That's what you should be fighting for in your own neighborhood... To prevent what has happened here from happening elsewhere. That's what you should be working to improve.

Having a bunch of bums camping out, urinating, and defecating everywhere in the park, IN PUBLIC, does more to showcase a "distressed" neighborhood than a temporary lack of trees.

Creating an environment where this is tolerated is unacceptable and downright negligent.

streetsabby · PostSep 07, 2009#11962009-09-07T09:13+00:00

Removing the trees because they were diseased and for ADA compliance makes much more sense than removing them because drug deals are made behind them. I don't condone some of the behavior of the homeless but it wouldn't be worth losing healthy, beautiful trees. Gopher, I realize you put a lot of work into the park and it's much appreciated. I would be happy to help out.

audioguy09 · PostSep 08, 2009#11972009-09-08T05:08+00:00

Something needs to be done to keep these idiots from camping out in the park at night. Anyone up for getting together some evenings and literally making these people leave? I imagine it'd be hard to get some sleep while you have a bunch of angry residents reminding you about the no loitering rule.

I'm also self-employed and can make as much time during the day to be a royal pain in the ass to some of these guys who camp out here.

More defecation and urinating in the Shell Garage over the last two nights. So bad I can't even go into the one area I normally parked. Smells like rotten, stale urine mixed with... other smells. Another resident went down to discover beer bottles left on his car. Classy.

The first time I confront a bum around my car in this private garage, fire will rain from heaven.

downtown2007 · PostSep 08, 2009#11982009-09-08T22:12+00:00

Wow sounds like a problem. I would contact the management company if I were you to see if they can implement anything before this turns into a safety issue. Maybe badge access or entering a code to enter the garage. No one should have to put up with this.

debaliviere · PostSep 23, 2009#11992009-09-23T17:07+00:00

Interesting tweet from Kacie Starr Triplett:

Will stop by a downtown business this PM to speak to owner. Allegedly, owner kicked a panhandler in stomach.

stldtfan · PostNov 05, 2009#12002009-11-05T21:41+00:00

Wonder what made this happen?

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-lou ... -homeless/

This is where it gets ambigous as to if Post Dispatch is painting a VERY one sided story, or if this action was warranted due to safety and sanitation issues.

St Louis Homeless and Panhandlers

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