Meanwhile, it's amazing that they're here for Election Day. Not on a "commies learn of democracy" angle, but to have so many officials who are core to these negotiations being up for reelection while the delegation is here. Or, it's a bit risky to have one side's leaders being given a confidence vote by the populace at the culmination of so much work. Was this planned? Because it sounds like one heckuva variable to play right when it's time to seal the deals.
Either way, all the best to our Chinese guests, who I hope enjoy poker at the Four Seasons Lumiere, and party it up at the Blues game Friday night.
"We can help China win its rightful place and rightful share in the US-China freight market and develop the infrastructure to enable Chinese companies to add value to their exports, develop logistics centers and access food and other raw materials needed for China's development," - Mayor Slay
Gone Corporate wrote:Meanwhile, it's amazing that they're here for Election Day. Not on a "commies learn of democracy" angle, but to have so many officials who are core to these negotiations being up for reelection while the delegation is here. Or, it's a bit risky to have one side's leaders being given a confidence vote by the populace at the culmination of so much work. Was this planned? Because it sounds like one heckuva variable to play right when it's time to seal the deals.
Indeed. Would make for some awkward conversation if Dooley loses tomorrow. Not that Corrigan's necessarily opposed to all this, but Mike Jones (Dooley's right hand man) is pretty much running this show.
I doubt it was planned. This trip has been in the works for awhile, probably just happened that this week was when it worked out. But, it probably doesn't hurt Dooley to have it in the news right now.
There have been several years of high level negotiations since at least 2008 between the two sides' major players. We do hear that the Chinese delegation loves Lambert Airport and the capacity it has to expand import and export. They are also enthusiastic about the capacity available at Mid America Airport near Belleville, Illinois.
The delegation is meeting Monday at Lambert, then at other location including MoDOT headquarters in Town and Country. They are taking a closer look at our region's infrastructure and the capacity to move goods efficiently and effectively.
If the deal is finalized, non-stop passenger flights might be added to Lambert.
“China’s economy is growing and there’s no reason why the country will take any less food next week, next month, or next year,” said Steve Nicholson, a commodity procurement specialist at International Food Products Corp., a distributor and adviser on food ingredients in Fenton, Missouri. “We’ve been able to produce more food in the past 2,000 years, but can we do it fast enough to meet the demand from China and other emerging economies to stave off a crisis?”
Increasing wealth in Brazil, India and China is boosting demand for grains, dairy, meat and cooking oils. While Sime Darby Bhd., the world’s biggest listed palm-oil producer, is benefiting from rising prices, governments from Beijing to New Delhi are trying to curb food inflation by raising imports, limiting exports or selling stockpiles. Per-capita use of vegetable oils in China has more than doubled in a decade, said Bill Nelson, a senior economist at Doane Advisory Services Co., an agricultural research and advisory company in St. Louis.
stlwriterman wrote:Indeed. Would make for some awkward conversation if Dooley loses tomorrow. Not that Corrigan's necessarily opposed to all this, but Mike Jones (Dooley's right hand man) is pretty much running this show.
I doubt it was planned. This trip has been in the works for awhile, probably just happened that this week was when it worked out. But, it probably doesn't hurt Dooley to have it in the news right now.
Looks like there won't be any awkward moments tomorrow. Dooley beating Corrigan is good news for the China Hub Initiative as well as any future movement on the City-County Merger.
Exports from St. Louis would be heavy precision machinery, manufacturing tools, electronic control systems and agricultural products, lots of agricultural products.
After the China hub people are here for a week, several dozen major Chinese business executives will follow to St. Louis within the month, which could lead to a transformation of St. Louis into a global trade hub.
I wasn't readily expecting a full deal set in stone right now anyways, and especially with the global economies still mired in messes. We've made friends with the government over there, and now we're making friends with the actual airlines. Sort of like getting in good with the parents of the homecoming queen before actually asking her out.
Boy what a good gamble. There's a lot of progressive thinking going into this proposal...
I thought leadership in this region was short-sighted and counter productive? It seems to me this whole thing is going about as well as it can given all the moving parts...
And, while not a good thing, the slow traffic at Lambert makes St. Louis THE option in the midwest for a cargo hub in my mind. We have a major league airport beggin to be used.
I saw the Chinese with Slay and Paul Mckee and other at the Hockey Game on Thursday. They sat lower level behind the goal in the box style seating. It seemed like they were really enjoying themselves at the game. Plus it would a very good crowd which made it even better. O and the blues winning made it kinda good as well.
The Chinese delegation toured Lambert and met with area companies that might export goods to China. They also took in a Blues hockey game.
Regional Chamber and Growth Association CEO Dick Fleming said the group wanted to see the infrastructure for themselves as well as learn how the planes would be filled with St. Louis and Midwestern products heading back to China.
Fleming said that the four-and-a-half days of meetings and tours seemed to have made a good impression on the Chinese delegation.
Fleming also said that the next step is for one of the Chinese airlines to step forward and negotiate a deal with Lambert officials. Senator Kit Bond has said flights between China and St. Louis will begin in 2011.
I agree. This is fascinating to watch. My only hope is that if this never comes to fruition, then some underlings of Mike Jones have a contingency plan to go straight to India, or Brazil, or both.
^I've been wondering if other people were also considering that. If the China Hub goes through, we won't have that beautiful runway capacity to offer to India and Brazil. More importantly, we might have to split our political capital between two trade commissions.
Is it better to
A) Double China's investment?
or
B) Bring in India or Brazil?
If this is as big as we hope it should be, then we should be attacking it on dozens of fronts. It's a partnership that should go deeper than just cargo (art, pandas, and student exchanges come to mind). I still think the commission ought to drop a Statue of Liberty level gift on Wuhan or Nanjing (sister cities). Remember the Statue of Liberty itself was paid for on he American side by our man Joseph Pulitizer.
Brazil is interesting for the InBev angle and the oppurtunity to leverage MoBot and some other institutions, but why not just push further into the Sinosphere while we've got the ball rolling?
There are four Asian Tigers that we could be a lot better connected to, and the China Hub is a good vehicle for that.
Having lived there, I'd say that Singapore is going to be one of the most important cities/countries in the 21st century. Singapore isn't just a rich nation-state. It's the capital in every way of ASEAN, which taken as a block is perhaps bigger than India or Brazil in some respects. If you've ever played Risk, you know that Singapore is also Australia and New Zealands main connection to the world. If you wanted to move goods by sea between China and India (two of those big BRIC countries), you'd have to drop them in Singapore (look at a map). Business, money, corporate headquarters, and cargo tend to naturally float on the Monsoon winds to Singapore.
Singapore is half Chinese, and a bridge to India. If we want to make the China Hub into a 'Gateway to the East,' then we should work on that partnership before we divert efforts to other regions.
If the China Hub doesn't work out, then at least we'll have a lot of contacts to show for it, and enough familiarity to push for further partnerships.
I say all the above. I doubt several air cargo flights a week from China is going to fill out capacity at Lambert. The more conections the more the merrier!
Just as important, I understand that St Louis is essentially along the great circle route to South America from China (shortest route). In other worlds, an ideal stop to fuel planes. If anything, Chinese might be looking at the big picture far beyond what is going in St. Louis. In other words, Brazil and the rest of South America is rich in resources and just as productive in agriculture as the midwest. Then throw in the fact that Caterpillar and John Deere, world leaders in equipment manufacturing, are based just up the road whiile leaders in mining are located in St. Louis itself, Peabody and to a lesser extend Patriot.
Dredger wrote:I say all the above. I doubt several air cargo flights a week from China is going to fill out capacity at Lambert. The more conections the more the merrier!
Just as important, I understand that St Louis is essentially along the great circle route to South America from China (shortest route). In other worlds, an ideal stop to fuel planes. If anything, Chinese might be looking at the big picture far beyond what is going in St. Louis. In other words, Brazil and the rest of South America is rich in resources and just as productive in agriculture as the midwest. Then throw in the fact that Caterpillar and John Deere, world leaders in equipment manufacturing, are based just up the road whiile leaders in mining are located in St. Louis itself, Peabody and to a lesser extend Patriot.
Yes. My understanding, too, is that at least some people involved in this see opportunity for STL as a transit point between China and South America. It's apparently just too far to fly direct, but St. Louis is well-located in the middle. Gateway from the Far East to the Southern Hemisphere. Doesn't sound like a bad place to be.
And if this project somehow ever fills out capacity at Lambert, well, isn't that what they built Mid-America for?
Are you going to continue your involvement with Southeast Asia at all in your retirement?
“Very definitely. A lot of Missourians want to do business over there and that can create a lot of jobs here. So I’m going to continue to work, really, throughout Asia.
“Right now, we’re working in St. Louis on bringing the China hub with freight traffic coming in, which will give us not only the opportunity for jobs and distribution and transport out of there, but most importantly will provide a great market.
“I was meeting with the Chinese group in St. Louis (Wednesday). They were talking with the pork producers and the beef producers because right now a good steak costs $90/lb. in China. We can send them high-quality beef that tastes better for a whole lot less. Missouri livestock producers can use that and we can create jobs and improve our economy and revenue.”
I guess that's what I meant. The St. Louis-China connection connects us to India/ASEAN/Oceania and connects them to South and Central America to an extent. We shouldn't run off alone, but use the existing partnership as the vehicle of expansion.
St. Louis is not part of the Pacific Rim, and I don't see us replacing LA any more than I see Wuhan upstaging Hong Kong. We can bank on our geography in terms of the Midwest market, but we should stay out of niches filled by other cities. We can only succeed on our own terms. The west coast has better logistics for getting stuff to Ecuador and Chile, but flying straight to Brasilia or some place in the middle of the continent (perhaps where some rivers come together...) would be a good stl approach. There's actually quite a lot to compare between our tallgrass prairie and the Cerrado. Our prairie is 99% taken up by farmland, and the Cerrado is very quickly being eaten up in a similar way. I'm sure our soy companies would have a lot to discuss.
It'd be awesome if we could act as a middle man for Chinese investment in Brazil.
Dredger wrote:I say all the above. I doubt several air cargo flights a week from China is going to fill out capacity at Lambert. The more conections the more the merrier!
Just as important, I understand that St Louis is essentially along the great circle route to South America from China (shortest route). In other worlds, an ideal stop to fuel planes. If anything, Chinese might be looking at the big picture far beyond what is going in St. Louis. In other words, Brazil and the rest of South America is rich in resources and just as productive in agriculture as the midwest. Then throw in the fact that Caterpillar and John Deere, world leaders in equipment manufacturing, are based just up the road whiile leaders in mining are located in St. Louis itself, Peabody and to a lesser extend Patriot.
Yes. My understanding, too, is that at least some people involved in this see opportunity for STL as a transit point between China and South America. It's apparently just too far to fly direct, but St. Louis is well-located in the middle. Gateway from the Far East to the Southern Hemisphere. Doesn't sound like a bad place to be.
And if this project somehow ever fills out capacity at Lambert, well, isn't that what they built Mid-America for?
My post from May 7, 2009 (19 months ago):
The Count wrote:When we think about distances between China and the USA we tend to think East-West. Almost instinctively we presume the West coast is the best way to go to China.
In aviation, great circles are used, e.g.: the shortest direct distance between two points on the globe.
Look at these examples:
Shanghai-LAX 5635 NM or 12:31 hrs
Shanghai -STL 6254 NM or 13:54 hrs
Shanghai - JFK 6424 NM or 14:17 hrs
Beijing- LAX 5432 NM or 12:04 hrs
Beijing-STL 5862 NM or 13:02 hrs
Beijing-JFK 5942 NM or 13:12 hrs
Chengdu-LAX 6262 NM or 13:55 hrs
Chengdu- STL 6581 or 14:37 hrs
Chengdu-JFK 6542 or 14:32 hrs
Shanghai-Lima,Peru 9256 or 20:34 hrs
Shanghai-STL-Lima 9379 or 20:51 hrs
Shanghai-Bogota,Colombia 8475 NM or 18:50 hrs
Shanghai-STL-Bogota 8475 NM or 18:50 hrs
As you can see, the differences between LAX, STL or JFK are very small. The difference between ORD and STL is negligible. ORD is about 20 min shorter but with their traffic and weather issues, STL will be faster most of the time.
When we throw South America in the mix, STL is right ON the great circle. No airplane can make it non-stop from South America to China and St. Louis is perfectly positioned for a fuel stop/cargo hub on this route. Better than LAX or JFK.
The Chinese are smart. They're not wasting their time and money. We just need to find a way to fill up the planes going back to China. I suggest sending a delegation to South America, ASAP.
I can assure you that the China Hub Committee is and has been looking at connecting China to at least some South American countries through St. Louis.
Mayor Slay pointed out an additional strength of the St. Louis area: we in fact have two airports...
Rather than seen as stealing business from each other, Lambert and Mid-Am together make expansion nearly limitless...The mayor's perspective on this was so good to read...and is obviously true...
Also, why would anyone in China consider entering the congested Chicago market for the long run? And as for other midwest competitors, no one can match the port, highway and rail infrustructure...nor can anyone top the quality of life that would be afforded any friends from China who might end up living out a career here...
Chicago = people = market. Chicago will remain the dominant player in the midwest unless five million plus people pick up their belongings and move to St. Louis, Indy, Detriot, KC, Twin Citeis. You get my point.
Its getting interested on how this is playing out. St. Louis is going exclusively for Chinese Carriers as well as finding a market for MO products (Think Kit Bond and his push to get agriculture products to Southeast Asia) while Mid-America is establishing relations with freight forwarders/charterers as the most recent landing. Well its frustrating to see glacial pace in Missouri you have to think that it will be a big payoff if it happens.
My other thought and have absolutely no way to confirm. Southwest airlines has to be interested in what is being discussed or at a minimum involved indirectly. Their the biggest US carrier by passengers with a established domestic cargo wing without any meaningful international traffic. Throw in the fact that they can service an Eastern US Asian community rather efficiently through St. Louis.
Meanwhile, local and state leaders across the Mississippi have been working to make Lambert-St. Louis International Airport in St. Louis County a trade hub with China. St. Louis is competing with Memphis, Dallas and Indianapolis to land Chinese cargo.
