urbanSTL

Jade Cargo:



Eastern China Airlines:
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/200 ... 13a_lg.jpg

Hainan Airlines:


Air China:



I would bet that passenger service will follow shortly after cargo service.

^ Agreed. Passenger flights are currently the basis for a lot of cargo coming over, being stowed in the lower compartments of the incoming planes with the luggage. Dedicated cargo flights should provide a great entrance to regular Chinese citizens not involved in air cargo coming to StL. Plus, if we start having a base of Chinese expatriates working here, they'll want direct flights back home and won't want to have to go through O'Hare to do so.

Just think: a regular & sustainable flow of 747s coming into Lambert. Good times.

Dredger wrote:I can't imagine a international passenger flight outside of Cancun (or even the minor Toronto service) without a big push from Southwest Airlines. They are the biggest domestic carrier by volume and the only airline who could bring the volume to STL to justify the international passenger service. It would be unique combo to see Southwest push its Midway, Baltimore, Love Field flights to STL as the connection to the East.

You might get enough traffic out of Chicago with the proper marketing/backing from Southwest and/or even Amtrak (thinking big - High Speed Rail into St. Louis, metrolink ride over to STL, boarding a non-stop to China)

Southwest is solely a domestic, point-point carrier. They only fly one type of plane, the 737.

Those planes don't have the range or capacity to do international, and it would be a dramatic change in their business to add different planes.

That said, I'd love to see them do as above, in partnership with a chinese air line. Unfortunately, the rules on airline ownership and slots are onerous here in the U.S. The big 5 (well, 4 now), have plenty of protections. Blech.

JMStokes wrote:

Dredger wrote:I can't imagine a international passenger flight outside of Cancun (or even the minor Toronto service) without a big push from Southwest Airlines. They are the biggest domestic carrier by volume and the only airline who could bring the volume to STL to justify the international passenger service. It would be unique combo to see Southwest push its Midway, Baltimore, Love Field flights to STL as the connection to the East.

You might get enough traffic out of Chicago with the proper marketing/backing from Southwest and/or even Amtrak (thinking big - High Speed Rail into St. Louis, metrolink ride over to STL, boarding a non-stop to China)

Southwest is solely a domestic, point-point carrier. They only fly one type of plane, the 737.

Those planes don't have the range or capacity to do international, and it would be a dramatic change in their business to add different planes.

That said, I'd love to see them do as above, in partnership with a chinese air line. Unfortunately, the rules on airline ownership and slots are onerous here in the U.S. The big 5 (well, 4 now), have plenty of protections. Blech.

I think the point was that Southwest would be the domestic feeder for international flights, not fly them themselves.

One interesting thing is that NO American based large airlines fly 747's anymore for passenger service. Too expensive.

As for Southwest, they are indeed national nonstop service. But I think Moorlander was saying Southwest as in connection flights from St. Louis.

Connections from St. Louis with NONSTOP SERVICE are available to the following cities as of May 2010 (after AA cuts certain cities):

Albuquerque, NM
Southwest
Atlanta, GA
AirTran, American, Delta
Baltimore, MD
Southwest
Birmingham, AL
Southwest
Burlington, IA
Air Choice One
Boston, MA
American, Southwest
Cancun, Mexico
Frontier, USA 3000, AeroMexico
Cape Girardeau, MO
Cape Air
Charlotte, NC
US Airways
Chicago, IL (Midway)
Southwest
Chicago, IL (O'Hare)
American, United
Cincinnati, OH
Delta
Cleveland, OH
Continental, Southwest
Columbus, OH
Southwest
Dallas, TX (DFW Int'l)
American
Dallas, TX (Love Field)
Southwest
Decatur, IL
Air Choice One
Denver, CO
Frontier, Southwest, United
Des Moines, IA
American
Detroit, MI
Delta, Southwest
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Southwest
Ft. Myers, FL
Southwest, USA 3000
Houston, TX (Hobby)
Southwest
Houston, TX (Intercontinental)
Continental
Indianapolis, IN
Southwest
Kansas City, MO
Southwest
Kirksville, MO
Air Choice One
Las Vegas, NV
Southwest
Litle Rock, AR
Southwest
Los Angeles, CA
American, Southwest
Louisville, KY
Southwest
Marion, IL
Cape Air
Memphis, TN
Delta
Miami, FL
American
Milwaukee, WI
AirTran, Midwest
Minneapolis, MN
Delta, Southwest
Montego Bay, Jamaica
USA 3000
Nashville, TN
Southwest
New Orleans, LA
Southwest
New York, NY (JFK)
Delta
New York, NY (LaGuardia)
American
Newark, NJ
American, Continental
Oklahoma City, OK
American, Southwest
Omaha, NE
Southwest
Orlando, FL
AirTran, Southwest
Philadelphia, PA
Southwest, US Airways
Phoenix, AZ
Southwest, US Airways
Pittsburg, PA
US Airways
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
USA 3000, AeroMexico, Sun Country
Punta Cana, Dominican Republic
USA 3000
Quincy, IL
Cape Air
Raleigh/Durham, NC
Southwest
Salt Lake City, UT
Delta
San Diego, CA
Southwest
San Francisco, CA
United
Seattle, WA
Southwest
Tampa, FL
Southwest
Toronto, Canada
Air Canada
Tulsa, OK
Southwest
Washington, DC (Dulles)
American, United
Washington, DC (National)
American


Lambert International will lose nonstop service to the following cities as of April 5:
Austin, Des Moines, Jacksonville, Madison, Norfolk, Richmond, San Antonio and Witchita

Southwest and other carriers has added all other cities AA will drop to new NONSTOP service from STL.

It will only be a matter of time (this summer most likely) that the last few of these cities without nonstop service will be added back to NONSTOP service on other carriers (without hesitation) except maybe for Madison, Witchita and possibly Des Moines. We will wait and see.
I have a good feeling Southwest will add nonstop service to Jacksonville, Austin, San Antonio and Norfolk within this year. All cities they fly to.

So overall, Southwest and other carriers have pulled up STL's wings and AA's cuts to make sure our NONSTOP service connections are still good.

If and when Chinese Airlines passenger service does arrive at lambert STL International - great connections on other airlines are available. but I also think that more visitors and tourists will be visiting STL from the east - not to mention (as said above) Chinese workers and delegates.

Southwest will definately see the opportunity to have those connections as well.

Chinese vacationers can connect to Toronto (huge Asian city) from STL, and vacation destinations throughout Florida, Mexico and the Caribbean NONSTOP from STL as well.
Not to mention NYC Laguardia, JFK and Newark, Seattle, LA, and Chicago (copious flights).

Ultimately this is good news all around!

matguy70 wrote:One interesting thing is that NO American based large airlines fly 747's anymore for passenger service. Too expensive.

Ultimately this is good news all around!

Excellent and informative post. One small caveat: UA and NW/DL do fly 747s. UA has occasional flights SFO-ORD, DEN-ORD, SFO-DEN as positioning, and plenty of long hauls SFO-NRT, ORD-NRT, etc.

Nobody, however, uses them for dedicated passenger service from U.S. point to U.S. point, so you're 100% on target there. Too damn big and expensive. However, freaking awesome when you're on one from SFO-ORD.

I guess I should have clarified that... no domestic service on 747's. Thank you very much!

Look at this chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747#Deliveries

It really shows how the 747 is slowly being removed from orders and commission. Gas guzzlers!

Dredger wrote:Thanks Alex, my point was Southwest acting as a feeder service for international airlines who do not have code shares with existing legacy carriers or other carriers, either it be Europe, Latin American or Asia. Code shares are expensive items, think Delta and AA fighting over JAL code share at a billion dollars. Southwest might be exploring ideas to do things a lot more cheaper.

As far as Southwest being point to point. Southwest having direct flights to Midway, Houston Hobby, Love Field, BWI ties us into several big metropolitan communities with very diverse and strong ethnic communities.

Plus bags are free!!!

This doesn't happen, unless people code share. As an incredibly frequent flyer (almost 1.6 million butt-in-seat miles over the last 5 years), it's too much of a hassle to book a ticket on southwest to get somewhere, then a different carrier for the international portion. Business travelers are the ones you want, and they'll almost invariably book whatever the travel system comes up with. Travel agencies (whether formal ones like Carlson Wagonlit, or new ones like Egencia/Expedia), don't offer mixed airline tickets like that. In fact, you can't even book southwest flights through the same engine on most - you have to go to SWAbiz or direct to Southwest.com.

While I like the concept you've got, the reality, for business flyers, is that it won't happen. We either need a big airline, or codeshares with the international airlines.

St. Louis Post Dispatch

03.31.2010
MIDWEST-CHINA HUB COMMISSION AND LAMBERT AIRPORT REACH AGREEMENTS IN CHINA FOR JOINT AIR FREIGHT STUDIES
By: nschnoebelen
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

March 31, 2010—For the past six days, the Midwest-China Hub Commission has been received in China by many leading Chinese organizations as they review and consider the idea of the development of a Chinese transportation and commercial hub based at and around Lambert-St. Louis International airport. Mayor Francis Slay and London-based 48 Group Club Chairman Stephen Perry led the Commission delegation of public and private sector officials for the week-long set sessions with Chinese airlines, as well as governmental and business leaders in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, and Haikou.

During the week, Civilian Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), Air China, China Eastern, Jade and Hainan airlines each announced their respective decisions to enter into joint feasibility studies with Lambert and the China Hub Commission to assess the potential for opening St. Louis/China freight routes. This was the critical first step and commitment sought by Lambert and the Commission.

Mr. Xia Xinghua, Vice Minister of the CAAC said, "We support this route and hope that it can be successful. The time is right, as our Vice Premier said in St Louis, to open up the central US to Chinese companies and airlines."

Mike Jones, Chairman of the China Hub Commission said, "The economic climate has been a cause for concern, but we now are in a position to get shippers and forwarders to back China's play. We believe they will."

Mayor Francis Slay, leader of the delegation said, "The creation by China of a commercial hub in St. Louis would be a significant economic and jobs benefit to the state and the entire Midwest. We appear to be at the end of the beginning. I am pleased with our progress and the ground breaking work of Stephen Perry of the 48 Group and the Commission."
Stephen Perry said, "My family has been icebreaking with China for almost 60 years. We believe that the ‘Big Idea’ is in China's interest. This week we have taken another significant step forward. All credit to the Commission for its perseverance in uncharted waters. Globalization calls for unique strategies based on careful research. This is the hallmark of the Commission's work."

In addition to Mayor Slay and Perry, the delegation also included Mike Jones, chairman of the Midwest-China Hub Commission; Dick Fleming, president & chief executive officer of the St. Louis Regional Chamber & Growth Association (RCGA); Lambert Airport Director Rhonda Hamm-Niebruegge; Guenther Rohrmann, cargo consultant to the Commission; Dr. Steve Miller, senior vice president and chief medical officer, Express Scripts; and Steven Stone and Jason Van Eaton of the Hub Commission.

###

DOGTOWNB&R wrote:Just thought of something. If St. Louis becomes the home of the Midwest Chinese Air Hub, will that mean the amount of dollar stores in St. Louis & the Midwest will double or quadruple? Have to hock all of that Chinese product somewhere.

I don't know, but I do love my Lenovo laptop - made in China by a Chinese company.

I don't have a Lenovo (which used to be IBM's computer division), but I have been to their offices outside Beijing. Rather impressive.

Let's remember that China is now home to the manufacturing of most of our high-tech electronics, including most every smart phone, laptop, and high-grade manufacturing products we use today. Your iPhone = made in China. I wish these things sold for a dollar.

Focus: For the last few months, there has been a major fight between the US and China regarding all things money, from trade imbalances to currency rigging and of course total debt allowances (they own ours). Let’s make no mistake about this: we were on the threshold of a major international trade war, with ramifications that could really turn some theaters of diplomacy hot (i.e. China sells arms to Iran).

Within the last day, a major state of détente has come about; where Tim Geitner had been looking to call China a “currency manipulator” for their managing the renmimbi, he’s now realized that such a fight would really be to our mutual detriments, especially as we all are seeking to get out of our share of the globalized economic funk we’ve been in since the end of 2007. Today, it looks like everyone is kissing and making up, with Geitner going to China for some “personal” negotiations and the Chinese probably the biggest buyer of today’s 10 Year Treasury auction (even more than the major US brokerage firms).

Here is a write-up on all of this from a respectable source, most of which I agree to: http://cumber.com/commentary.aspx?file=040610.asp

What does this mean for StL? Well, hopefully the Federal Government will realize that it truly is in our best interests to emerge from this horrible economic mess through mutual trade with other like countries, spurring demand in each other and increasing mutual consumption of goods & services. If, during this time of renewed appreciation for each other, the talk of fast-tracked trading gets started, then StL could be primed to capitalize on this. Or: If Geitner gets the message that China wants to get things going that will help our national economy (including new jobs), he’ll be able to pass the word along to the Administration, who are now or very soon will be in great need to show they are actually doing something proactive regarding economic rejuvenation (not just health care) in anticipation of the November elections. Maybe this is a reach, but if we’re all getting along now and looking to see how we can get more done, it may be possible that the StL Hub could get fast-tracked and maybe increased funding by the Feds to actually get this sucker running.

Either way, most of our fears of this slowing down because of the economy & economic politics are about over. One less thing to worry about.

We should all know/remember that economics will drive this effort and not politics - no matter how much hot air is dedicated to stoke fear of "trade wars" and worse by pundits.

and now St. Louis based Solutia has opened China offices. More great reason for the air hub here!
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... G83252.htm

Apparently the Tri-City Port and the Port of New Orleans (Sister Ports) have formed a joint bid for St. Louis' Cargo Hub dream. In 2015 when the Panama Canal gets a bit wider, massive Chinese ships will fit into the new panamax limit and bypass California for New Orleans. This post is from August 09, but it is new to me,
http://www.tricityport.com/whatsnew/press-06.php

It's very good to see that we're attacking this issue from multiple angles.

As suggested elsewhere, It would also be nice to see the Joint Asian Studies program between Wash U and UMSL extended to Webster and the World Trade Center in Clayton that administers the sister cities program. It would also be nice for Webster to match its Chinese campuses with efforts in our sister cities Wuhan and Nanjing.

Just posted on STLToday.

Another Chinese trade group headed into town. Not related directly but the kind of thing we'll see a lot of if this happens. Very encouraging that we're being added to the itinerary.

(never figured out how to do truncated links properly—)

http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/b ... -st-louis/