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PostFeb 28, 2008#26

phoaddict wrote:Why do so many americans have this seeded impression of war and defense?
Maybe it is because many of them, unlike you, were actually alive, and can remember quite clearly, when our troops were dying from Chinese-supplied weapons (some would argue that that is still happening), and many were alive (not me), when Americans were being killed directly by the hands of Chinese soldiers. Yes, the United States actually fought a war with China (and I won't even go into who started the war), but you probably slept through that section of history class. And, unless there is another revolution in China, I'd say there is a pretty good chance, maybe 40-50%, that the U.S. will have some type of military conflict with China in the future. I suspect if you could poll Chinese party officials anonymously, their number would be even higher. If there is military conflict, I'd say there is a 66% chance it will be over Taiwan.


phoaddict wrote:Do you honestly think China wants to "fight" the US and send "spies"?
To the first part of you question: No, I'm quite sure they don't want to fight the U.S., but don't want isn't the same as won't. And they are sending spies, as evidenced by the last two major spy scandals in the U.S. You would have to not only be completely naive, but possess a complete lack of common sense, to suggest otherwise.


phoaddict wrote:Are you that much of a sucker to American media to think of the world as the glory days of WWII and the Cold War?
Are you that much of a sucker for Chinese propaganda? Wait, let's hear what the independent media in China has to say, umm, oh yeah, nevermind.


phoaddict wrote:Do me a favor jrblues, go visit china and live in shanghai, hong kong or beijing for a while.
Been to two of the three, never lived, but have friends that live in Shanghai and Hong Kong. Unlike you, they acknowledge both faces of China, the pretty one and the ugly one.


phoaddict wrote:Get some cultural perspective and start making some intelligent posts.
I have read more than enough of your posts to say something about stones and glass houses, or name-calling kitchenware, but I won't. :lol:


phoaddict wrote:China is not aggressive, WE are aggressive.
Tell the people in Taiwan, Tibet, Mongolia, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos - hell, anywhere in South or Southeast Asia for that matter - that China is not agressive, and see what they say. Don't just ask the Chinese. :lol:



There isn't by chance a couple of weeks missing from your recollection of your 6 months in China is there? Do you occasionally have flashes of images of cold rooms with bright lights and TV monitors? A party official wouldn't be able to spout more propaganda...

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PostFeb 28, 2008#27

Uh, what was the orignal topic? :?

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PostFeb 28, 2008#28

^ Clearly Paul McKee's diabolical plan to make millions through the importing of Chinese spies into the US through added international freight traffic at St. Louis regional airports and processed through his soon-to-be announced NorthPark II development in North City. Can't you keep up?? :lol:

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PostFeb 28, 2008#29

Paul McKee letting them commie spies into our fair town and watchin' them murder our sheriff, burn our crops, loot our stores, stampede our people, and rape our cattle. (to paraphrase Blazing Saddles)



It doesn't matter what I post, that is the way phoaddict will read it. :)

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PostFeb 28, 2008#30

Then let's just get this thing back on topic and we won't have to worry about how anyone reads anything.

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PostFeb 28, 2008#31

jlblues wrote:Paul McKee letting them commie spies into our fair town and watchin' them murder our sheriff, burn our crops, loot our stores, stampede our people, and rape our cattle. (to paraphrase Blazing Saddles)



It doesn't matter what I post, that is the way phoaddict will read it. :)




:lol:



I do see some strange flashes of light every once in a while, and find my self waking up on the floor in random bars saying some random phrases in chinese....but that's just it.... :P



How do you know IM not a spy???



I agree, back on topic. Just don't got the energy for this one ;)

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PostFeb 28, 2008#32

phoaddict wrote:How do you know IM not a spy???
If you are a Chinese spy, I'd say America has absolutely nothing to worry about. :wink:



Ok, now back on topic, as edge-of-your-seat thrilling as it is...



I will note, however, that nobody attempted to answer my original, rather relevant, question.

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PostFeb 29, 2008#33

Darn. Just when it was getting good.

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PostMar 01, 2008#34

Moorlander wrote:I don't think I understand the scope of the economic boom this could bring to the area. Anyone care to explain?


Saint Louis would become a crucial and primary link in the United States engaging in increased direct commerce with the world’s most dynamic, fastest-growing economy by scale and net transportation infrastructure development, contingent to the continued development of the Saint Louis Metropolitan Area as a clustered center of transportation logistics development.



This development would establish a solid base of operations for their distribution in the center of the United States. Note the developments involved in air shipping to Memphis with Federal Express and Louisville with UPS. Then relate them to making Lambert a center for East Asian aerial freight, including the continued and growing development of the Chinese aerial freight industry, both as private entities and as State-Owned Enterprises. With the ample tracts of developable land surrounding Lambert, as well as the relative non-utilization of the W-1W new runway, Saint Louis is well primed to establish itself as a great center for airborne logistics, and an ideal candidate for the world’s most powerful economy.



Such a relationship would also further the Metro area’s general growth for land-based and river-based shipping. While we are witnessing the growth of developments around I-255, such as those for Unilever and Hershey, we could further this growth on both sides of the river for general logistics across the US interstate highway system (for which we have multiple routes at the center of the country) while utilizing our natural river routes to further the development of shipment interests. Also, planes flying back to China would be best set to not fly out empty; we could expect an increase in products shipped there by air, including product made outside of StL and that made locally, possibly leading to increased manufacturing interests being established in StL for the sake of proximity to an international transportation hub.



With this development comes further economic integration between the various Chinese interests, including private business entities, and the business community of Saint Louis, leading to greater mutual awareness & interdependence as well as the lure for increased joint ventures between Saint Louis-based multinational corporations and their Chinese counterparts. As East Asian economic integration continues, we could expect to see such a development spread out to include South Korean, Indonesian, and Singaporean airborne shipping interests.



Net, such a partnership could mean a net increase in billions to the Saint Louis Metro Area’s economy.


jlblues wrote:Does anyone think we would allow a large Chinese operation to set up right next to Scott Air Force Base, using the same runways no less? Although all the spies could be good for our local economy I suppose...


1. I believe the initial hope would be to establish this network of business interests on the Missouri side to recognize increased taxation revenues from such operations. This could be an incredible boom to the City, as it still maintains control over the operations of the airport. Think of how much more money can be allocated to city schools, urban redevelopment, and fixing the potholes in the roads. While shipping centers in North Park would be in StL County, the City would still recognize revenues from the fees incumbent upon the rights of airplanes to land their craft on the Lambert runway, which could net very large figures indeed.



But mostly, as Southern IL is currently focused upon establishing international shipping relationships with Malaysia primarily, the utilization of Chinese aircraft upon Scott AFB runways is technically feasible although not likely as a course of strategic business planning.



2. Joking aside, and noting to the general naïveté apparent to the nature of international espionage, both corporate and governmental:

This is not going to lead to the primacy of Chinese spies coming over to see what goes on in Mascoutah, IL. While not wanting to divert the discussion any further into the facets of the intelligence gathering community, let me just say that this is not how spying takes place in the modern world, especially as Chinese interests are more into the utilization of resources to enhance their knowledge of strategic industry over Air Force Logistics. It’s Scott AFB, not Whiteman, and one would be better to out potential covert operations within the hiring practices conducted of non-US citizens into the financial services industry and technology-related sectors.



Note: As I had mentioned relative naïveté, it can best be displayed in how no one questioned the proximity of this potential development towards the headquarters of either GKN or Boeing’s Integrated Defense headquarters along Lambert.

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PostMar 01, 2008#35

does anyone know how close we are to securing their business are there any other cities involved?

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PostMar 02, 2008#36

Gone Corporate wrote:Note: As I had mentioned relative naïveté, it can best be displayed in how no one questioned the proximity of this potential development towards the headquarters of either GKN or Boeing’s Integrated Defense headquarters along Lambert.
I am extremely aware of this and you had better believe those companies are. ;)

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PostMar 02, 2008#37

stl1991 wrote:does anyone know how close we are to securing their business are there any other cities involved?


First of all, welcome to the forum 1991. I have noticed that you have been asking about updates and start dates for several projects. In this case, if you would simply read the first post of this thread (only a week + old) you'll find your answer in the second paragraph. Hint: The meetings haven't even taken place.... Read: we MIGHT know something in late March or early April or it may take several months.

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PostMar 02, 2008#38

SOME BASIC QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL!

Gone Corporate, so has the Chinese Govt. offered us this deal? What are St. Lou's chance of getting this?. Are the leaders aware of what this could do? I want to know more if this is gonna transform the region. Would there absolutely be a increase of eastern presence in St. Louis? Only thing I can think about is what the Chinese/Asian investment has done to West Coast cities like Seattle, San Francisco, and Vancouver (specifically). St. Louis would be so cool with a large Asian presence. I would love to see St. Louis get this, it would just add greatly to the economy and give an already "quirky" city another cool twist. The Chinese definitely invest in the urban infrastructure of St. Louis city. We would see Chinese buying up whole sections of the city.

PostMar 02, 2008#39

This deal wouldn't require a citizen vote or something like that, would it?

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PostMar 02, 2008#40

^ They're discussing at a high level how the idea will be mutually beneficial. This wouldn't transform the region but it could prove to be important in international trade/logistics as America continues its slide and as power transitions to Europe and later Asia (China and to a smaller extent, India) once it matures. There is nothing to vote on, our local and national politicians are not ignorant of the gravity, the area will not see a large influx of Chinese, the Chinese will not buy up whole sections of the city, and we should wish the project well.

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PostMar 02, 2008#41

innov8ion wrote:^ Are you serious regarding the last two posts? They're discussing at a high level how the idea will be mutually beneficial. This wouldn't transform the region but it could prove to be important in international trade/logistics as America continues its slide and as power transitions to Europe and later Asia (China and to a smaller extent, India) once it matures. There is nothing to vote on, the city is not ignorant of the gravity, the area will not see a large influx of Chinese, the Chinese will not buy up whole sections of the city, and we should wish the project well.


Yes I'm serious! This would change the region, not completely but a lot would get done and usually a deal this big would bring more diversity to any area. Money and economic opportunity breed diversity and immigration, so I thought we might get some of that. You would have to be pretty naive to think that the Chinese wouldn't set up a stronger community in the St. Louis area. I don't know if it would be to Vancouver proportions but you never know what kind of domino effect this could have. If they do land this (which I do wish the project well). There would definitely be some kind of economic boom resulting in job and population growth, most likely increasing diversity.

PostMar 02, 2008#42

Oh yeah Innov8ion, I just try to look at anything that happens in St. Louis as optimistically as possible. There is so much negative idealism involved with this town. I doubt the Chinese are going to buy up and reinvest in large sections of town too, but I like to dream about the best possible scenario.

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PostMar 02, 2008#43

Gone Corporate wrote:Note: As I had mentioned relative naïveté, it can best be displayed in how no one questioned the proximity of this potential development towards the headquarters of either GKN or Boeing’s Integrated Defense headquarters along Lambert.
Actually, that was my next question. :wink: But it is really comparing apples and oranges. The layout and surroundings are completely different. Boeing is quite a bit more secure, necessarily so, because it is, and always has been, surrounded by areas of public access and foreign operations. I am quite sure Boeing spends a rather large chunk of money on security, espionage detection, and anti-espionage technology, not just to protect from foreign espionage, but corporate as well, the latter probably even more so. I don't think corporate espionage is really a factor at Scott.



Contrast that with Scott AFB, which has always been in the middle of nowhere. Thus, you can see any espionage activity a mile away, literally. Surely you don't deny that setting up a major foreign operation - from a country with which we aren't exactly on friendly terms, and could be on very unfriendly terms in a heartbeat - on the door step of a critical U.S. military logistics command center, would have major security implications. There are dozens of examples around the world of the Chinese military using civilian corporate entitities with legitimate operations as cover for espionage. I am not sure that Scott has anywhere near the security infrastructure and anti-espionage technology that would be necessary, and I'm sure it pales in comparison to Boeing's, which means someone would have to buck up some cash to secure Scott if this were to happen. And who is going to do that?



Look at it in reverse. Do you think China would allow a U.S. corporation to set up such a large operation on the door step of one of their military bases? Highly unlikely.



Despite the joke, I'm not really talking about Chinese spys sneaking on to Scott AFB in camoflauge and snapping pictures, digging tunnels, etc. I am thinking more along the lines of eavesdropping and other forms of electronic infiltration and monitoring of activity at the base.



BTW, I suspect there are some higly-sensitive activities at Scott, of which the public is completely unaware. Even if this is not the case, it would definitely need the capability to conduct such activities in secret during times of war, and would thus need to restrict the base's airspace and runways to military-use only, and the capability to secure and restrict - prohibit, more likely - public access to the surrounding area. At the very least, that would greatly hinder any civilian cargo operations.

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PostMar 03, 2008#44

We would see Chinese buying up whole sections of the city.
[-o<

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PostMar 03, 2008#45

As long as they did something productive with the land they bought up I think it could be good for St. Louis.



Some STL Bloggers might not like it, though.

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PostMar 03, 2008#46

STLCardsBlues1989 wrote:As long as they did something productive with the land they bought up I think it could be good for St. Louis.



Some STL Bloggers might not like it, though.


thats what I was thinking

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PostMar 04, 2008#47

Could McKee also be fishing for some capital to work with? The tightening of commercial credit is already doing a number on developers and some local projects.

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PostMar 04, 2008#48

STLCardsBlues1989 wrote:As long as they did something productive with the land they bought up I think it could be good for St. Louis.



Some STL Bloggers might not like it, though.
To what "STL Bloggers" are you referring?

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PostMar 13, 2008#49

Lets hope for the best if any economical or cultural deals can be made it will be great for the region.



Bipartisan state entourage of pols headed to China

By Jo Mannies

POST-DISPATCH REGIONAL POLITICAL CORESPONDENT

03/13/2008







Most of Missouri's and the region's top political leaders are heading to China this month to make a bipartisan pitch for stronger economic and cultural ties.



The state's two U.S. senators, Republican Christopher "Kit" Bond and Democrat Claire McCaskill will be leading the entourage. Also making the trip: Gov. Matt Blunt, St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley and St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay.



The group is to fly to Beijing right after Easter, which is on March 23, and stay for several days for meetings with various Chinese officials. Specifics are still being worked out, participants say.



Paul Wagman, a spokesman for the Regional Chamber & Growth Association, called the trip "the next step in a very long-term project to expand trade and promote educational and cultural links between Missouri and St. Louis on one hand, and China on the other."





The RCGA helped host a visit here last month by Zhou Wenzhong, China's ambassador to the United States. Bond and McCaskill had invited the ambassador, who in turn invited the senators to China.



A Bond political consultant said the State Department is paying for the two senators' travel. Some of the other officials' expenses are being picked up by the St. Louis County Economic Council and the Hawthorn Foundation, a nonprofit group that is funded largely by area business interests to encourage state economic development.



McCaskill spokeswoman Adrianne Marsh and Bond consultant Jason Van Eaton cited the trip as evidence that politicians can put aside their political differences for the state's common good.



But Bond, McCaskill, Blunt, Dooley and Slay will no doubt engage in a bit of partisan parrying — even if in jest — during their travels.

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PostMar 14, 2008#50

That's a lot of top dogs. I wonder if they'll all travel on the same plane, or if they'll "spread the risk".

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