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PostJan 27, 2009#201

First blogger on STLToday said this might give St. Louis a small economic boost :lol:



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

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PostJan 27, 2009#202

goat314 wrote:
innov8ion wrote:I believe that Gone Corporate provides a good analysis, however there are no guarantees. One step at a time... The deal brokers should pay attention to our cultural differences, and work to build common relationships and understanding. One of the main differences is that they operate under "authoritarian" or "planned" capitalism.



I understand that a senior delegation to include senators and other local executives have been meeting with the Chinese. Is the Illinois contingent negotiating separately with the Chinese or are they part of the newly-formed bureaucracy? We should not send mixed messages. Let's build a common vision and message that represents the best of the St. Louis region.


http://www.bnd.com/business/story/631693.html


Those comments don't sound too enthused about it. I hope they (east-stl) do get a piece of the pie, if not directly then indirectly.

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PostJan 27, 2009#203

I totally hope this happens and thinks it's great but isn't it kind of like politely begging the man that is murdering you to clean up the blood a little bit when he's all done?

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PostJan 27, 2009#204

^ I don't understand.

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PostJan 27, 2009#205

Well for starters we owe them over 500 billion dollars. Also, I understand Americans don't really want to work in a rubber dogshit factory but we HAVE lost a couple of jobs to China usually under unfair circumstances. Plus, they are not real nice to their own people not to mention the people of Tibet (or what is left of it). They are no angels. I'm jusy sayin'. I listen to everything and appreciate it so start talking.

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PostJan 27, 2009#206

I realize a lot of St. Louis jobs have been lost to China, why not get some of those jobs back?



We don't have to agree with all of their practices. But, as much as we like to think otherwise, it is not our job to be the world's moral compass.



This deal could work for St. Louis and China. Why not? It's not like they're going to invade St. Louis, kill Mayor Slay, and take over the city. They want to invest here, and they have money. This could be a good economic impact for the city.



And Americans do a lot of immoral things, too. We're not so much more moral than they are.



China isn't quite there on the human rights thing, but it took us 300 years to stop killing the Indians are hating other races. And racism is still a problem in this country. China needs to change some things. Are we really better than them? Probably not.

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PostJan 27, 2009#207

Look, I want to be careful and not be mistaken for the "They're sending all of the jobs to China" crowd. That is not me. It's just that on many levels the playing field has not been level.

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PostJan 27, 2009#208

I see what you're saying. We owe them a lot of money. But I think we can make a fair deal here. The Chinese may be richer than us, but it doesn't make them tyrants.



What exactly are you worried about them doing to us? Stealing our daughters?



Lots of companies have sent jobs to China for cheaper labor. I don't think China had to twist their arms that much. The companies bottom line is important to them. They could have kept jobs here. They chose not to.


MidAmerica St. Louis Airport's efforts to become an international air cargo hub received a potentially big boost Monday in St. Louis.



That's where China's ambassador to the United States joined Missouri business and political leaders to announce the creation of a partnership to make the St. Louis region a hub for Chinese goods coming to the Midwest.


So is this somewhat official now? I'm confused.


But there is also a hitch -- a big one. No one from Missouri contacted anyone connected to MidAmerica to determine whether the airport want to join the fledgling partnership.


Good thinking, Missouri.


As for Kern's contention that he had not been consulted about the proposed partnership with Lambert Airport, Fleming gave a slightly different account.



"We have had continuing conversations," Fleming said. "It is my understanding that Mark has been approached."


I have a bad feeling about this. It's trying to unravel at the seams.



Is Illinois putting together some other kind of package?

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PostJan 27, 2009#209

A few thoughts:



1. Chinese holdings in US Treasury bills, bonds, and notes were acquired with full clarity and support on the open market. As such, the Chinese are now tied to the economic well-being of the US. We are not beholden on them; rather, they are invested in the US economy, and how we go is how they go. They’re investors, not mafia loan sharks.



Without going into the dynamics of sovereign investment in USD-based offerings, a few things to consider: China is not the only sovereign purchaser of Treasury bills, bonds, and notes. They are the world’s largest developing economy; they are also the largest gross investor into these Treasury offerings. The stability of the Yuan, their currency (a.k.a. the People’s Money, pronounced “ya-mim-be”) is increased by their holdings in the USD, although not a firm peg.



If you own stock in Home Depot, doesn’t it lead you more often to shop at Home Depot than Lowe’s or some other hardware store?

Now, make it less of a single stock investment and more dependent strategic economic partnership with one of your biggest mutual trading partners, the world’s largest economy, for gross and net imports & exports.

China needs us to thrive for its own well being.



They are not murdering us. If anything, we’ve been stabbing them (reference: Chinese SWF investments into Citi, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Black Rock IPO, et.al.). These with their invested holdings in Treasury offerings have made us the dominant one comparatively.



And, we are far, far richer than them. Look at GDP comparisons (best online reference: the CIA World Fact Book).



2. The US economy has shifted within the last four decades from manufacturing-based to service-based. See Robert Porter and The Comparative Advantage of Nations. That they now make the small crap we buy has been a choice by the US to partition out our lesser-earning industries. Dollar Disparity in earnings is a fact of globalized economics, and the use of Chinese manufacturing is smarter for us to have as a nation.



The jobs the Chinese “took” are largely jobs US workers wouldn’t take. If they offered them all back, most would be declined by us as career work.



3. Yes, it’s still the People’s Republic of China, and they’re not known for compassion with human rights. I stood in Tiananmen Square on the 17th anniversary of the massacre, as CNN was edited out in the hotel room when that story was broadcast. At the square that day, I felt a stronger police and military presence, no doubt, and no one there dared to be brazen about the date.



I’ve never been to Tibet, although I do like the Beastie Boys.



Know that capitalism increases individualism in the minds of the Chinese people, and through these two factors ingrains concepts of democratic representation in the nation. If we want a free and open China, the best way to engage them is with their wallets.



Think of the reverse effects of perestroika and glasnost in the 1980s, when the Soviets encouraged self-expression. The first thing oppressed people with new declarative freedoms demand is an increase in the quality of life, beginning in the USSR with food and shelter, and in this newfound understanding the massed nations brought about a change in global geopolitics, the end of the Cold War, through their new national and transnational self-perceptions. In the PRC, they went the other way, opening stores to new goods and consumer choices. From this, the concepts of individualism have grown more organically, and from these new self-identifiers will spring a change in the self-perception of the Chinese nation and their government.



4. As much as we think it would be cool, we mustn’t think that the Chinese will move into North City “just because”. Remember the Koreans on top of their stores in LA in 1992? The Chinese are far more brazen and less tolerant of certain aspects of US domestic sub-cultural instabilities (broadly speaking, of course). They’d move to new suburbs in the countryside (past the O’Fallons), the urban areas (StL City, west to Clayton), and of course near StL Chinatown.



Where is Chinatown in StL? University City and Olivette, on Olive east of I-170. Great fish shops along there, and I hear good chicken feet.



5. There’s no potential unraveling by Southern IL with Mid America. They’re overflow for Lambert, at best. They cannot and will not derail anything, no matter how pessimistically we may think. This is far bigger than potentially competing de facto independent metro municipalities can hit. China wants to work with MO and StL at Lambert; they don’t know Mascoutah as anything but “they’ve got that, too” Mascoutah didn’t start the negotiations, they’ve been picked up along the road as MO’s been driving.



If they pulled anything volatile to the deal being done, how quick would Claire McCaskill get President Obama to act on StL’s behalf? While he’s from IL, he’s from Chicago, not Mascoutah, and he knows he owes her interests his support.

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PostJan 27, 2009#210

I appreciate the information is provided on this subject. Thanks for taking the time. The only reason I throw out things like Tibet and a Chinatown in North City is that occasionally I need to kill some time at work and for some reason I care (but not too much) about what is going on wherever I happen to be living. I like reading this website alot more than I like posting. Sorry, sometimes I just cannot stop myself from being somewhat of a joker (and consequently not adding very much substance). Occasionally, some substance (but not too much). Now, if you want to read some of my very serious message board postings you'll need to head on over to the Onion AV Club boards. Damn I did it again.



Okay I'm done for a couple of weeks. Hope this Chinese deal works out.

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PostJan 27, 2009#211

Well because China is on the road to superpower status. Within a decade they will be both the world's largest exporter and importer. The trade cooperation between our countries is mutually beneficial. I know some people fear globalization, but it can't be stopped.



As far as humanitarian issues go -- at its heart America cares about the almighty dollar. What are we, the world police? Only when it serves us in $$$. That's why no one stopped one million Rwandans from dying in a genocide. That's why six million Jews died in the holocaust.

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PostJan 27, 2009#212

Let's stay focused here posters.



Remember the IM button is available.

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PostJan 27, 2009#213

innov8ion wrote:What are we, the world police?


America. {edited for language January}



Focus: If it's cool enough for Batman, China's good enough for us.

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PostJan 27, 2009#214

The US is in that weird, hazy transition from being the world superpower to NOT being the world superpower. It will be slow and strange. It's not like you wake up one day and everything is sh*t and we say "oh, this is what life is llike being the 3rd most powerful country in the world".



People die. A child is born. People make love. People kill each other. Leaders appear. Leaders are killed, hung, jailed, exalted, have statues made of them. Animals become extinct. Ideologies mutate. Ideas merge. Power shifts. Migration. Patterns. Form. The Earth rumbles. People become fat, soft. Tastes changes. Food and water becomes contaminated. The hunter becomes the hunted ***passes out***

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PostJan 27, 2009#215

^ Well Said.....but honestly how confident are you guys this deal will happen? Right now I'm at 75% and think an official confirmation will happen after the logistics reports and 2nd trip to China is done. That should be sometime this summer. Let's pray [-o< because lord knows this would change A LOT in St. Louis. Think about all the new jobs, new people, new demands that would come to the city. It's definitely a plus for the city, because many young professionals will want an urban lifestyle and we will likely see new residential throughout the urban core. If we land this deal St. Louis City will likely gain a new national perspective, people will likely take notice of our urbanity and architecture.....who knows we have the potential to pull a Washington DC, which went form being a somewhat blighted city before experiencing a world class urban renaissance. Oh how I love to dream.

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PostJan 27, 2009#216

The only part of the equation not being talked about is tax subsidies and/or incentatives. The state was ready and willing to hand over huge incentives for a Canadian aircraft manufacturer to build a plant at KCI. But, I haven't read and head anything. Has anybody seen or read anything? The Chinese will know how to make a good deal and I'm positive they won't land one plane until they get the best rate or even a pass on landing fees.



The next question, what is Gov Nixon's thought on this. I would like to think that Missouri could pull it off.

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PostJan 28, 2009#217

I would think that this is more like 80 percent a go.



As for "the push" and organization of regional, city, metro and state leadership, commitments, and involvement - this is being done with the meer fact that a "partnership" and "commission" was announced this week.

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PostJan 28, 2009#218

goat314 wrote:^ Well Said.....but honestly how confident are you guys this deal will happen? Right now I'm at 75% and think an official confirmation will happen after the logistics reports and 2nd trip to China is done. That should be sometime this summer. Let's pray [-o< because lord knows this would change A LOT in St. Louis. Think about all the new jobs, new people, new demands that would come to the city. It's definitely a plus for the city, because many young professionals will want an urban lifestyle and we will likely see new residential throughout the urban core. If we land this deal St. Louis City will likely gain a new national perspective, people will likely take notice of our urbanity and architecture.....who knows we have the potential to pull a Washington DC, which went form being a somewhat blighted city before experiencing a world class urban renaissance. Oh how I love to dream.


I think your expectations might be a tad high. While I certainly feel that this will bring new jobs to St. Louis, I don't think it will suddenly put STL back on the map as a world class city. This should further improve the STL area as one of the best cities for manufacturing and may help us to become a cargo hub to other countries as well. It "may" improve our image to Chinese imigrants although I imagine that few of them will even know of our ties.

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PostJan 28, 2009#219

Will this by any chance improve our airport or give us any additional flights...possibly overseas?

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PostJan 28, 2009#220

metzgda wrote:
goat314 wrote:^ Well Said.....but honestly how confident are you guys this deal will happen? Right now I'm at 75% and think an official confirmation will happen after the logistics reports and 2nd trip to China is done. That should be sometime this summer. Let's pray [-o< because lord knows this would change A LOT in St. Louis. Think about all the new jobs, new people, new demands that would come to the city. It's definitely a plus for the city, because many young professionals will want an urban lifestyle and we will likely see new residential throughout the urban core. If we land this deal St. Louis City will likely gain a new national perspective, people will likely take notice of our urbanity and architecture.....who knows we have the potential to pull a Washington DC, which went form being a somewhat blighted city before experiencing a world class urban renaissance. Oh how I love to dream.


I think your expectations might be a tad high. While I certainly feel that this will bring new jobs to St. Louis, I don't think it will suddenly put STL back on the map as a world class city. This should further improve the STL area as one of the best cities for manufacturing and may help us to become a cargo hub to other countries as well. It "may" improve our image to Chinese imigrants although I imagine that few of them will even know of our ties.


Notice I said "how I love to dream", but you can't deny that the possibilities are unmeasurable at this point. Your starting to sound like that one blogger on STLToday who said it would create a few jobs. I doubt the leaders would go through all this for just a few thousand jobs. St. Louis may not become a world renowned city overnight, but an international cargo hub does instantly change St. Louis from being a "national city" to an "international city" in a global economy.

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PostJan 28, 2009#221

^ Take a deep breath goat, you are setting yourself up for a huge let down if we aren't awarded the deal. This will be great for the economy, but it's still too early to understand the full reach. I don't think he sounds like an STLToday.com blogger one bit. He's just being a little more realistic.

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PostJan 28, 2009#222

^^^ I'm breathing fine Moorlander.....you take a deep breathe. I was just doing a little dreaming, but apparently that's a crime on this forum. Anyone who dares to dream or have an optimistic outlook here is labeled a dunce or told they are not being realistic or naive.

Oh yeah and I'm already setting myself up for the being STL let down, so if it happens I'm going to do cartwheels down the street.

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PostJan 29, 2009#223


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PostJan 29, 2009#224

and another:



Thursday, January 29, 2009, 2:50pm CST

Economic council gets $1.7M toward St. Louis-China trade initiativeSt. Louis Business Journal



http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily67.html

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PostJan 29, 2009#225

This is a really exciting development.

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