I tell ya...the impression of St. Louis for convention goers is getting a serious upgrade...Hopefully some decent retail (Target.....plz?) and a couple of new attractions right next door to America's Center will help make hot visits in July not so miserable...There should be a lot to see, eat and do within 10 to 12 blocks of the Renaissance and Embassy Suites...
"the impression of St. Louis for convention goers is getting a serious upgrade"
The number of downtown residents could have gotten a serious upgrade if we waited 5 years to turn this project into residential as it was intended to be originally. That being said it's certainly an example of good design -- if you ignore that it's a parking garage.
The number of downtown residents could have gotten a serious upgrade if we waited 5 years to turn this project into residential as it was intended to be originally. That being said it's certainly an example of good design -- if you ignore that it's a parking garage.
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Doug, the Laurel is directly next door and is considered for all intensive purposes part of this project. Surely you would not have wanted to wait 5 years to see that building rehabbed into apartments/condos.
This is a phenomenal project and an enormous upgrade for this area of downtown. I honestly am dumbfounded you managed to gripe about this.
This is a phenomenal project and an enormous upgrade for this area of downtown. I honestly am dumbfounded you managed to gripe about this.
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I think an interesting point here is that, as mentioned, this is a parking garage, but most here seem to really like it. So, perhaps it's time to dress up our garages to create a more cohesive built environment downtown. It wouldn't take much, relatively, to make downtown garages much, much more attractive. Let's start with Kiener and Ballpark garages.
"Doug, the Laurel is directly next door and is considered for all intensive purposes part of this project. Surely you would not have wanted to wait 5 years to see that building rehabbed into apartments/condos."
The garage was kept not because of the Laurel but due to the fact that we have to repay the bonds which were used to finance the failed conversion of the garage into condos. Of course I am glad that the Dillard's building will be reused. But I am not a fan of keeping parking garages across the street from other garages. Dressing up garages seems great but first we need to at least stop building them.
The garage was kept not because of the Laurel but due to the fact that we have to repay the bonds which were used to finance the failed conversion of the garage into condos. Of course I am glad that the Dillard's building will be reused. But I am not a fan of keeping parking garages across the street from other garages. Dressing up garages seems great but first we need to at least stop building them.
IMO this place looks fantastic!
Very contemporary and modern.
2nd) I for one waited TOO long to see it stay the same. If I had to wait another 5 years... I think I would have rented a bulldozer myself.
3rd) I wish not to hear STL Centre ever again... it is gone it is history and it is dead.
Very contemporary and modern.
2nd) I for one waited TOO long to see it stay the same. If I had to wait another 5 years... I think I would have rented a bulldozer myself.
3rd) I wish not to hear STL Centre ever again... it is gone it is history and it is dead.
There is definitely too much parking capacity DT (though I do read on Yelp and other sites that people still complain about parking...We are not utilizing the spaces properly)...But my understanding is that Thompson Coburn (largest firm in town in terms of actual lawyers in the City) would have bolted without an upgrade to their parking situation (which the new garage directly addresses)...The reality is, parking has to be obvious, cheap and convenient or the garage monsters we've built become even more monsterous...and empty...doug wrote:But I am not a fan of keeping parking garages across the street from other garages.
...And, I completely agree that dressing garages up should be a top priority...I'm thinking that for cost of materials and some hardtack and gruel, local artists would be up to the task of creating interest and design on the many blank walls of DT...
Your comment doesn't make sense to me...There are other residential buildout opportunities in Downtown? =/doug wrote:"the impression of St. Louis for convention goers is getting a serious upgrade"
The number of downtown residents could have gotten a serious upgrade if we waited 5 years to turn this project into residential as it was intended to be originally. That being said it's certainly an example of good design -- if you ignore that it's a parking garage.
I think we need to keep in mind what an amazing eyesore and black hole of urban blight the prior situation was DIRECTLY ADJACENT to our very nice convetion center...If this new complex comes to life (as it will), it's another stunning turn around in the Lou...snap!
Heard on KMOX that someone got $10M in financing from US Bank for a movie theater.
^Run by the good people who have given us the Chase Park and Moolah theaters...I'm sensing another one in the win column for Downtown redevelopment...
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And apparently it's going to be a very unique venue as well. Can't wait to see the official announcement.
It was an eyesore for a decade. We have no problem using eminent domain for shopping centres but with St. Louis Centre we put our credit on the line. That decision didn`t make any sense. Very excited for the theater! Too bad the Ambassador isn`t here as it would have made an ideal setting.
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I can't imagine you on Christmas morning as a child.doug wrote:It was an eyesore for a decade. We have no problem using eminent domain for shopping centres but with St. Louis Centre we put our credit on the line. That decision didn`t make any sense. Very excited for the theater! Too bad the Ambassador isn`t here as it would have made an ideal setting.
"Oh, wow, these Legos are really cool. But the pirate ship this Lego kit mimics is a really poor example of a sloop. And to think of all the trees that were cut down to create such a massive, unnecessary ship...Any seafaring peoples should have changed their lifestyles completely to become hunter-gatherers. Sweet, a bike! The child labor used to create this is upsetting. Mom, did you know the Schwinn corporation received tax subsidies in Guatemala to set up a new factory for these 12-speeds??"
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That's ALWAYS what Doug is saying.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ That's funny, though not what Doug was saying.
Independent of context, I thought that was fantastically funny.ricke002 wrote: I can't imagine you on Christmas morning as a child.
"Oh, wow, these Legos are really cool. But the pirate ship this Lego kit mimics is a really poor example of a sloop. And to think of all the trees that were cut down to create such a massive, unnecessary ship...Any seafaring peoples should have changed their lifestyles completely to become hunter-gatherers. Sweet, a bike! The child labor used to create this is upsetting. Mom, did you know the Schwinn corporation received tax subsidies in Guatemala to set up a new factory for these 12-speeds??"
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What he said was that it's too bad the Ambassador was demolished. One could caricature your position as being distracted by new shiny objects and not caring for what we've lost.ricke002 wrote:That's ALWAYS what Doug is saying.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ That's funny, though not what Doug was saying.
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Or the fact that Doug ALWAYS throws in something negative. ALWAYS. Can't dispute that. I don't dislike Doug or think his points are invalid, but the constant pecking of negativity is sickening. Think one thing is great, once. That's all. No snippet of what St. Louis once was, or what we didn't do, or what someone else has that STL doesn't. Just be glad for something and be done.Alex Ihnen wrote:What he said was that it's too bad the Ambassador was demolished. One could caricature your position as being distracted by new shiny objects and not caring for what we've lost.ricke002 wrote:That's ALWAYS what Doug is saying.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ That's funny, though not what Doug was saying.
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You've just diagnosed Golterman's Syndrome.ricke002 wrote:Or the fact that Doug ALWAYS throws in something negative. ALWAYS. Can't dispute that. I don't dislike Doug or think his points are invalid, but the constant pecking of negativity is sickening. Think one thing is great, once. That's all. No snippet of what St. Louis once was, or what we didn't do, or what someone else has that STL doesn't. Just be glad for something and be done.
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Not really. There are a lot of nuts in the world.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Golterman is unique.
Come on. If we were not still building parking garages then perhaps I could sound crazy. But yeah we haven't really changed how we do planning so I don't understand why I am sounding insane. Regarding lost buildings how many downtown now know about the Ambassador, the Century, that the Arcade was proposed to be parking, and who will remember the Admiral in 20 years? I am not going to apologize for caring about what we lost because sorry this was once a great City and what made it so still seems to be disappearing. That doesn't detract from the progress being made but rather adds nuance insofar as it could be a lot better had we thought things out with a more long term view, especially with St. Louis Centre.
I haven't heard any response either as to why we can use eminent domain for Schnucks in south city, to take working people's homes, but not the bum who once owned the Centre and did nothing to improve it. Rather than taking the blight through court we put our credit on the line (a deal which every member of the Board of Estimate and Apportionment said was a bad deal yet voted anyway to pass minus Green) for a developer who was overextended. Hence the need to turn this around quickly to pay off that debt. Sure the Laurel is being redeveloped but that was a part of the deal before it fell apart. So I don't see anything added except a parking garage wearing a sexy dress where condos -- and a rooftop pool -- could be instead. Rather we could fire the officials who paid for this deal, use their salaries to make the bond payments, and wait until the market recovers and we get those condos. Or Slay could cover the payments for a year or two with his campaign funds? Call it a down payment on his new downtown condo. That aside I keep pointing this out because we seem to forget our mistakes despite the fact they occur so often.
I haven't heard any response either as to why we can use eminent domain for Schnucks in south city, to take working people's homes, but not the bum who once owned the Centre and did nothing to improve it. Rather than taking the blight through court we put our credit on the line (a deal which every member of the Board of Estimate and Apportionment said was a bad deal yet voted anyway to pass minus Green) for a developer who was overextended. Hence the need to turn this around quickly to pay off that debt. Sure the Laurel is being redeveloped but that was a part of the deal before it fell apart. So I don't see anything added except a parking garage wearing a sexy dress where condos -- and a rooftop pool -- could be instead. Rather we could fire the officials who paid for this deal, use their salaries to make the bond payments, and wait until the market recovers and we get those condos. Or Slay could cover the payments for a year or two with his campaign funds? Call it a down payment on his new downtown condo. That aside I keep pointing this out because we seem to forget our mistakes despite the fact they occur so often.
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^All valid points.
However, nothing was demolished in this development except for some horrific skyways. Additionally, any and every city that I have ever been to contains parking garages. Sure, they could all technically be considered too many in a utopian world, but as it stands since they are going to be in the built enviroment they might as well look like this while also containing new amenities and retail space, no?
Let's drag the parking garage complaint section over to the ParkPacific thread, lord knows it is appropriate there. In the meantime, enjoy this quality mixed-use development.
However, nothing was demolished in this development except for some horrific skyways. Additionally, any and every city that I have ever been to contains parking garages. Sure, they could all technically be considered too many in a utopian world, but as it stands since they are going to be in the built enviroment they might as well look like this while also containing new amenities and retail space, no?
Let's drag the parking garage complaint section over to the ParkPacific thread, lord knows it is appropriate there. In the meantime, enjoy this quality mixed-use development.