urbanSTL

^ On the plus side... *when* *if* *sometime* we ever grow enough to become Chicago-ish, hopefully none of us will be on this forum b*tching about 45$ overnight parking!

Doug wrote:

DeBaliviere wrote:

Doug wrote:St. Louis Centre has been there rotting for years. We can't wait two more years for a quality mixed use condo development?

That would be my preference. We're getting a garage either way though, either in St. Louis Centre or at U.S. Bank Driveway Plaza.

But we shouldn't go for BOTH!



In reality we don't need either, certainly not two more. We already have the under capacity Century Garage.



I think it's clear why Rollin Stanley left St. Louis.

I don't disagree with you, but Thompson Coburn is getting its garage, in one location or another, whether we like it or not. I'm hoping wherever it is, it's the last one we see for a long time, and all of our existing garages can be used to support new office and housing development.

Although I would prefer no new parking garages, I'd rather see one at the useless US bank plaza, providing there will be retail on the ground floor.



We should not build another garage on our main avenue downtown.

companies encouraging commuting via car are also a problem. why don't some of these companies offer incentives to their employees to use public transportation? why don't they quit offering parking to employees and instead subsidize a metro pass? downtown resident benefits for employees?



i don't understand.

Has anyone considered the idea of these garages creating revenue for city? Arguably this is an easier source of revenue than luring businesses to downtown, at least for St. Louis City Leadership. Just thinking out loud here...

Many of the newest garages downtown are "city" owned or at least by the treasures office.

Mayor Slay's tweet this morning:

I'm well past tired of the St. Louis Centre skybridge. Stay tuned.

There is also another side, I can move my company out to the county where I can have free parking and avoid the earnings tax. Free parking and Raises for everyone!



just playing devil's advocate

The City is NOT building this garage. It is being developed by the same group who currently owns the whole MX area.

^ So you're saying the current developer is indeed planning to convert or rebuild St. Louis Centre as a garage and not as condos or offices?



If so, it's a massive disappointment, especially compared to the original renderings and proposal for The Concord, which was a great example of how to turn downtown's biggest lemon into some lemonade.



I cannot believe the city would consider a parking garage progress in this case. I think I'd rather stare at a vacant lot for a few years, although I realize with the skybridge connections and One City Centre that cleaning the slate is a bit more complicated than it may seem on the surface. To think that we may have another parking garage here is so disappointing. Predictable, yes, but still very disappointing.

I have seen the plans for the project. The developer knows that there has to be a NEW parking garage for Thompson Coburn. The garage will either be built on the green area in front of US Bank or he can incorporate a new garage into the plans for the Concord. He believes that for street retail to maximize it's potential a garage would better be built at the Concord space. There would be first floor retail and possibly a movie theater at the north west corner.

Part of the deal between the City and Thompson Coburn for the firm staying downtown is that they get a new garage.

Slight edit to fit what you said, which he also meant:

Matt Drops The H wrote:He knows that there WILL be a new garage, not that there needs to be one.

aj2cb2000 wrote:I have seen the plans for the project. The developer knows that there has to be a NEW parking garage for Thompson Coburn. The garage will either be built on the green area in front of US Bank or he can incorporate a new garage into the plans for the Concord. He believes that for street retail to maximize it's potential a garage would better be built at the Concord space. There would be first floor retail and possibly a movie theater at the north west corner.

That's where the disappointment kicks in for me. I realize Thompson Coburn must have their precious garage, but I think the former Ambassador Theater site (aka US Bank Plaza, Where Pigeons Are More Welcome Than People™) is much better suited for construction of a new garage than The Concord/St. Louis Centre. And I think for street level retail to maximize its potential as the developer says, I think St. Louis Centre is much better suited for condos and/or office space.



I mean, seriously, are we going to resign ourselves to a downtown littered with parking garages with street level retail as a pathetic sop to the urban planning ideals that drive development in just about every other city in America? It's a sad day when Missouri cities like, uh, Columbia and Springfield, for crying out loud, put more thought into how their parking garages fit into their overall downtown plan than St. Louis.



Those of you that have seen the plans for St. Louis Centre obviously know a bit more about this than me or most people here, but I think allowing parking in St. Louis Centre compromises the integrity of the area since (1) density should be maximized to support the ground level retail, Macy's, and the rest of the Mercantile Exchange area, and (2) the area is already rife with parking garages. Meanwhile, US Bank Plaza is wasted space. If TC wants their garage, I say build it there. But absent of a far-reaching plan to rebuild St. Louis Centre, I'd like to see it reconfigured into something much closer to the original Concord proposal instead of one more godd@mn garage in downtown's traditional retail core.

Grover wrote:

Moorlander wrote:There is also another side, I can move my company out to the county where I can have free parking and avoid the earnings tax. Free parking and Raises for everyone!



just playing devil's advocate

Really? The earnings tax again? Read this and drop the ET stuff: http://is.gd/1Jd0v

That piece really isn't very convincing.

I'm probably in the minority around here, but I like the green area at US Bank. It's well maintained and nice to walk by going to and from work.



I do wish it was more inviting though. Density is definitely good, but I think spaces like Post Office Plaza and City Garden are just as important. What I'd like to see is the US bank garden integrated into the area (i.e. cafe seating, events, etc.). The parking garage is guaranteed to go in somewhere (unfortunately) and while it could go where the garden is and thus and more density with first floor retail/restaurant/business space, with the rest of the MX redevelopment we are already going to have a lot of space to fill as it is. If all that does fill reasonably quickly, and integrating the US Bank garden doesn't go well, we could then build over it with a non-parking garage office building of perhaps even taller height than the garage would have been!

We have enough parking and green space!



Who are these morons in City Hall and why do we keep voting for them?

They took down the big ALL STAR banner. Now the walk bridge is a COMPLETE eye soar on Washington Ave.