So I hear the garage is being built in cover the TIF payments we owe since our good faith and credit was used to back the bonds on this project.
The Downtown St. Louis Residents Association (DSLRA) would like to invite all downtown residents and other interested parties to a Town Hall Meeting to be held on August 20, 2009. The meeting will provide residents with the latest updates on two exciting new development projects coming to downtown St. Louis soon. Come out to meet Amos Harris the developer of the Laurel Project (Dillard's building at 7th and Washington Ave.) and Desiree Knapp representing Dominium Development of the Leather Trade Lofts Project (Leather Trades building at 16th and Locust St.) both developers will explain their projects and answer questions. It is important that you take this opportunity to become more knowledgeable about the progress of these new projects and how they will affect the way we live, work and play in downtown St. Louis.
Place: Left Bank Books - Downtown St. Louis 321 N. 10th Street Time: 6:00pm to 8:00pm
Place: Left Bank Books - Downtown St. Louis 321 N. 10th Street Time: 6:00pm to 8:00pm
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Well lets see. Last I heard a Embassy Suites is supposed to go into the Laurel and STL Centre is supposed to be turned into a parking garage. Ironically STL Centre is right across the street from the Laurel. By connecting the dots I would have to speculate that the STL Centre parking garage is for the proposed hotel. Can anyone confirm?
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Downtown2007 wrote:Well lets see. Last I heard a Embassy Suites is supposed to go into the Laurel and STL Centre is supposed to be turned into a parking garage. Ironically STL Centre is right across the street from the Laurel. By connecting the dots I would have to speculate that the STL Centre parking garage is for the proposed hotel. Can anyone confirm?
Just so we don't use the bridge over Washington for valet parking.
Why not make St. Louis Centre the Embassy Suites. It also already has a central atrium and a fountain just like most Embassy Suites hotels. There is already enough parking in the St. Louis Centre garages for a hotel. The Laurel can be just condos, apartments, and parking.
I've heard that the new garage at STL Centre will simply be used to both pay back the TIF bonds and also satisfy Thompson Coburn.
Simply put the City should pay out of general revenue for this mistake until a project gets built. They decided to go forward with this mistake and they should pay the price. Their fiscal negligence shouldn't leave a negative impact on our built environment, yet again, for another 30-50 years. We also should have never agreed to additional parking for TC. But the visionary Mayor Slay simply couldn't afford to say no.
Using this proposed garage to pay our obligation allows Slay to shirk responsibility, quietly, for putting our credit on the line. He and the City should pay the price. Maybe then we would stop this horrible practice.
The public should be outraged that instead of a project worthy of a global city, we're now getting another St. Louis Style parking garage. No wonder we're the 52nd City!
How can we market downtown as a desirable, urban, vibrant neighborhood, where except for Washington Avenue it contains far too much useless open space and parking?
It's not. Downtown still has far too many trends placing more towards that of an office park, whether through the commuting patters of suburban office workers or the built environment that facilities that behavior.
This might be "city living" for someone from West County, but an individual with experience in a world city finds it wholly lacking.
Simply put the City should pay out of general revenue for this mistake until a project gets built. They decided to go forward with this mistake and they should pay the price. Their fiscal negligence shouldn't leave a negative impact on our built environment, yet again, for another 30-50 years. We also should have never agreed to additional parking for TC. But the visionary Mayor Slay simply couldn't afford to say no.
Using this proposed garage to pay our obligation allows Slay to shirk responsibility, quietly, for putting our credit on the line. He and the City should pay the price. Maybe then we would stop this horrible practice.
The public should be outraged that instead of a project worthy of a global city, we're now getting another St. Louis Style parking garage. No wonder we're the 52nd City!
How can we market downtown as a desirable, urban, vibrant neighborhood, where except for Washington Avenue it contains far too much useless open space and parking?
It's not. Downtown still has far too many trends placing more towards that of an office park, whether through the commuting patters of suburban office workers or the built environment that facilities that behavior.
This might be "city living" for someone from West County, but an individual with experience in a world city finds it wholly lacking.
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How long before all of Downtown St. Louis resembles the intersection of 6th and Pine?!
The top two level of the St. Louis Center garage are usually empty. It's extremely rare to ever see a car on the top level.
I'd tend to agree that the price of gas will rise dramatically over the next 10 years (projections range up to $20 a gallon). The pattern of choices St. Louisans make may leave parking garages and far flung suburbs empty.
I've heard that the city treasurer is having difficulty making payments on the bond debt. Parking revenues were down due to the recession. But then Metro cut service and people started driving again.
I'd tend to agree that the price of gas will rise dramatically over the next 10 years (projections range up to $20 a gallon). The pattern of choices St. Louisans make may leave parking garages and far flung suburbs empty.
I've heard that the city treasurer is having difficulty making payments on the bond debt. Parking revenues were down due to the recession. But then Metro cut service and people started driving again.
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Matt wrote:I'd tend to agree that the price of gas will rise dramatically over the next 10 years (projections range up to $20 a gallon).
Look, I hate the spread of parking garages as much as the next guy on this forum, but we'd better hope those gas price projections never come true, at least not for a much longer period of time. People need to rethink their choices about where and how they live, but it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to be rather difficult to finance an urban utopia if an economic downturn occurs that makes last year's meltdown look like the loss of some loose change in a cupholder.
Matt wrote:The top two level of the St. Louis Center garage are usually empty. It's extremely rare to ever see a car on the top level.
I use the Macy's garage frequently whenever I'm downtown, and I've noticed the same thing about the garage at Seventh and Olive streets. I don't know who ever thought it would be a good idea to have so many parking garages in that area, but the idea that St. Louis Centre should be converted into a garage is equally absurd given what appears to be a parking space surplus in our downtown. It also seems like it would be a difficult endeavor to convert St. Louis Centre into a parking garage. The floorplates that open to the massive atrium don't really lend themselves all that well to a parking garage conversion. If that's the plan, it seems like it'd almost be easier to demolish and rebuild the place.
Frankly I like Gary's idea of using St. Louis Centre as a hotel with the atrium as its centerpiece, The Laurel for residential and retail space, and parking hidden within both buildings to serve their needs. If Thompson Coburn wants their new garage, build it on the site of the Ambassador Theater, since US Bank Plaza is a complete waste of space in its present form.
If I had my way, though, there would be a moratorium on the construction of additional parking garages until a comprehensive analysis of downtown parking structures and projections for the future is complete.
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Matt wrote: (projections range up to $20 a gallon).
Ya friggin right! LOL...
But even so, cars will be so much more fuel efficient it won't matter. If in 20 years my hybrid gas/electric/hydrogen car gets 100 mpg why do I care if it's $20/ gallon if the tank only hold 3 gallons?
The Nissan Leaf gets 367 mpg. And it doesn't require fuel.Moorlander wrote:Matt wrote: (projections range up to $20 a gallon).
Ya friggin right! LOL...
But even so, cars will be so much more fuel efficient it won't matter. If in 20 years my hybrid gas/electric/hydrogen car gets 100 mpg why do I care if it's $20/ gallon if the tank only hold 3 gallons?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/1 ... 57448.html
Also as part of that loan, Nissan is working with cities around the US like San Diego, CA; Phoenix, AZ; Seattle, WA; and Raleigh, NC to put the charging infrastructure in place that will make the LEAF more attractive to drivers. The car will charge to 80 percent within 30 minutes on a quick charger. A full charge requires eight hours on a 200V outlet.
Shai Agassi of Better Place, INC is putting a business model together for charging and battery swapping stations. Since charging can take a while, battery swapping could be the equivalent of getting a fill-up. Check out an overview here: http://www.betterplace.com/solution/charging/. And his presentation at TED: Yes, this is for real. He has partnered with Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Nissan.
St. Louis may wanna monitor this.
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and the chevy volt gets 230 very questionable miles per gallon in the city..
If cars aren't going to disappear any time soon, how do we end this parking garage madness?
The message that needs to get out at this point (in my opinion) is that an overabundance of cars is more than just an environmental issue. The public needs to understand why too many parking garages can be damaging to the community.
Also, people need to feel like they have more choices. Simply put, the fastest way to get from almost anywhere in the metro area to downtown is by car. Naturally people are going to go that way. By focusing on strengthening the alternatives (biking, walking, bus, light rail), I think it would drastically reduce the actual and perceived needs for more parking.
Of course, this is all stuff you guys already know. But I think it can't be restated enough.
The message that needs to get out at this point (in my opinion) is that an overabundance of cars is more than just an environmental issue. The public needs to understand why too many parking garages can be damaging to the community.
Also, people need to feel like they have more choices. Simply put, the fastest way to get from almost anywhere in the metro area to downtown is by car. Naturally people are going to go that way. By focusing on strengthening the alternatives (biking, walking, bus, light rail), I think it would drastically reduce the actual and perceived needs for more parking.
Of course, this is all stuff you guys already know. But I think it can't be restated enough.
The discussion may then include the relevance of oil in light of new technologies?
There are some related materials at this site too:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/14/20-dol ... y-oil.html
There are some related materials at this site too:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/14/20-dol ... y-oil.html
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I am going to do my best if time permits.
Zink, if I can't make it I hope you can give us a brief rundown.
Zink, if I can't make it I hope you can give us a brief rundown.
I was told last night the St. Louis Centre would not be a topic of discussion at the town hall meeting tonight. Rather the presentation will center on the Laurel. Apparently the developer, the city and Thompson Coburn are all still in negotiations in regards to the project and it would be too early to tell the public exactly what is going to happen. Good news is that we should get a reasonably time line for when the Washington Bridge should be demolished.
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I think the topic should be brought up anyway. Wouldn't potential residents of The Laurel like some assurance they're not going to have a view of another nasty parking garage? Even if plans are still up in the air, it's never too early to let the powers that be know that a parking garage there is a bad idea.
it's never too early to let the powers that be know that a parking garage there is a bad idea
It's a shame it never seems to help. With what happened in the CWE, to the Century to a host of other examples, this city doesn't seem to want to hear about less parking.
I think it could honestly be said that DT has a glut of parking available. It may not be in the same building you want to go to...but God forbid people have to walk a block or 2. No wonder everybody's overweight.
I work by the STL Center garage and can see the upper deck from my office..I think it's safe to say that that garage is never fully utilized except on Cardinal game days.
Shouldn't we make opposition to this parking penchant known on our streets?
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I have contacted the alderman about it. I would recommend everyone else to do the same.
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^ And while we're at it, I think recommending a moratorium on parking garages until a comprehensive study to determine parking needs downtown is a good idea too.
^ During the DSLRA forum, I asked the architect how many more parking garages we needed to make downtown a more autocentric destination. He didn't really have much of a response.
Good idea, an objective parking study could be instructive!
Good idea, an objective parking study could be instructive!
We don't need a parking study.
Look at the garages during the day and that's your study.
Look at the garages during the day and that's your study.
