St. Louis Centre -> MX District downtown

matguy70 · PostOct 11, 2006#1512006-10-11T02:00+00:00

failing Grand Center

That's kind of harsh. Grand Center itself (as a group) has done quite a bit to the theatre district and supporting the arts in midtown... however, Midtown and the district have given the arts group(s) a hard way to run. Progress in the Grand Arts District just seems to be held up by a few people that think tif issues are more important than revitalization there. To comment on this issue:

http://www.urbanstl.com/viewforum.php?f=26

Otherwise, back to point in topic: $110 million St. Louis Centre complex redevelopment

jmedwick · PostOct 11, 2006#1522006-10-11T02:28+00:00

I don't know. Given the grand plans and the inherant potential of the area, Midtown as an area and Grand Center as an organization could be much more. But as you have aluded too, the organization has long had a split personality, half trying to be the cordinator for the arts and events activities in the district and the other half being the developers. And neither half seem to work well to build on one another, with in my mind the development half undercuting much of the work done as arts cordinator. So I wouls say my characterization is pretty fair, given what I belive could have been acomplished in the same time period with different leadership. From all the talk about residential infill, dreams of a SLU arena, and even a street car line along Grand, little has been acomplished in the past 6 years and given the sucess seen elsewhere in the city, I would call that a failure.

But as you said, back on topic.

southcitygent · PostOct 11, 2006#1532006-10-11T16:54+00:00

One problem with more retailers locating downtown is the lack of available space. I know of one west county retailer that would like to locate fairly large store downtown but has been stymied because the only locations big enough are too far west (Eli Walker) of where they want to be. They have been told by the "powers that be" that it will be at least 12 months before suitable space is ready east of Tucker.

Alex Ihnen · PostOct 11, 2006#1542006-10-11T17:18+00:00

C'mon - spill it!!!

doug · PostOct 11, 2006#1552006-10-11T17:53+00:00

Regarding Grand Center, I admire the aspirations of the partnership yet I think there is a lot of wasted potential in the area especially on Grandel Square.

This area could be a great residential district with coffee shops or even a few dining establishments. Foot traffic to the Fox, the Sheldon, and the SLSO would be a great selling point. Walkability for children to Cardinal Ritter would attract more than empty nesters or old folks. This street could attract the young and the old alike.

Something needs to be done with the old church as it is an eyesore and quite depressing. Either look into rehabbing or tear it down because its a depressing sight.

Maybe clean the church up and install a fountain in the middle of the building.

debaliviere · PostOct 11, 2006#1562006-10-11T18:07+00:00

Let's start a Grand Center thread to discuss GC topics, otherwise, stick to St. Louis Centre discussion here please.

threeonefour · PostNov 27, 2006#1572006-11-27T19:27+00:00

Any news on this place? Macy's looks great- and it seems to be attracting more shoppers for the holidays- but this adjacent eyesore continues to drag down this entire portion of downtown.

I know construction wasn't supposed to begin until early next year anyway, but it would be nice if they could sheathe the entire building in banners announcing its forthcoming overhaul. I'm glad to see more shoppers and plenty of convention attendees checking out Macy's. However, I cannot imagine what they think as they pass this empty hulk of a mall, or peer into its darkened corridors from the closed doors on the second, third, and fourth levels of Macy's.

debaliviere · PostNov 30, 2006#1582006-11-30T15:47+00:00

Paric Corp. will manage St. Louis Centre project

11/30/2006

Paric Corp. said Wednesday that it was chosen as the construction manager for the $75 million renovation of St. Louis Centre, aimed at transforming the failed shopping mall into a mix of condominium and street-level retail space. No further details were released.

In August, Pyramid Cos. completed a $9.1 million purchase of the building and named the Lawrence Group as the architect. Construction is expected to begin early next year, but no further timetable for the project has been set.

threeonefour · PostNov 30, 2006#1592006-11-30T17:20+00:00

^ Looks like things are still moving right along. (...sigh of relief...)

stldtfan · PostDec 01, 2006#1602006-12-01T03:22+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:
Paric Corp. will manage St. Louis Centre project

11/30/2006

Paric Corp. said Wednesday that it was chosen as the construction manager for the $75 million renovation of St. Louis Centre, aimed at transforming the failed shopping mall into a mix of condominium and street-level retail space. No further details were released.

In August, Pyramid Cos. completed a $9.1 million purchase of the building and named the Lawrence Group as the architect. Construction is expected to begin early next year, but no further timetable for the project has been set.

Paric is known to do excellent work on their projects. Are there any finalized plans (architecture) yet? Any website?

Alex Ihnen · PostDec 10, 2006#1612006-12-10T02:53+00:00

From the Mayor: http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=592

Regarding One City Center:

If Pyramid can purchase the building, the City will execute a redevelopment agreement that will use tax increment financing to cover roughly 40 percent of the transaction’s $36.7 million cost. The TIF amount is higher than usual, delivered earlier in the transaction than usual, and — most unusually — backed by the City. In exchange for these major concessions, Pyramid will be required to give up control of the building quickly (in months, instead of years) if it misses tax payments, and its ability to sell or re-finance the building will require the approval of the Board of E&A. If Pyramid can’t purchase the building, there’s no deal.

debaliviere · PostDec 14, 2006#1622006-12-14T20:07+00:00

Looks like Heywood Jablowme and his family are about to be out of our lives for good:

City board greenlights TIF for Pyramid office project

St. Louis Business Journal - 1:42 PM CST Thursday

by Lisa R. Brown

The Board of Estimate and Apportionment of the city of St. Louis recommended approval of $14.5 million in tax increment financing (TIF) for Pyramid Cos.' purchase and redevelopment of the One City Centre office building downtown. The recommendation was made in a board meeting Wednesday afternoon.

Pyramid, led by John Steffen, is seeking to purchase and renovate the 455,000-square-foot office building, on North Sixth Street just south of Washington Avenue, as part of its plans to convert the adjoining now-vacant St. Louis Centre mall into condos and retail space. Pyramid announced plans for the $110 million project, called 600 Washington, in February.

Pyramid's $9.1 million purchase of the St. Louis Centre property from Barry Cohen closed in August.

Pyramid has the 25-story One City Centre office building under contract from its owner, Angela Whichard of North Carolina, for $26 million. The acquisition, including an $8.5 million debt reserve for tenant improvements and $500,000 in transaction costs, totals $37.5 million. Anheuser-Busch is vacating 110,000 square feet of office space in the building to move to Sunset Hills, leaving its vacancy rate at about 30 percent.

St. Louis Comptroller Darlene Green, a member of the Board of Estimate and Apportionment, opposed the TIF for One City Centre, on the grounds that the deal requires putting the city's credit at risk. The city has only pledged its full faith and credit behind one other development, the St. Louis Marketplace, located in the 6500 block of Manchester Road. Because that retail center has not lived up to revenue projections since it was built in 1992, the city pays $1 million annually as part of the TIF redevelopment deal for the strip shopping center, which totals about a half-million square feet.

"This is a bad deal," Green said. "We want to see downtown development move forward, in particular this development, but we don't want it to happen on the backs of taxpayers."

Mayor Francis Slay and Board of Aldermen President Jim Shrewsbury voted in favor of recommending the TIF. The full Board of Aldermen ultimately will vote on the measure.

"This piece of property is a cancer on our downtown in our central business district," Slay said. "There is an additional risk the city is taking, but I think it's worth that risk."

markofucity · PostDec 14, 2006#1632006-12-14T20:20+00:00

you know - i'm glad this went through but is it really fair to call the office building a "cancer" on downtown? The buildign looks fin (and I use to gym alongside it everyday. I was actually suprised to hear that it was practically vacant.

debaliviere · PostDec 14, 2006#1642006-12-14T20:35+00:00

Appearance-wise, it's not really a cancer. But it is hemorrhaging tenants and will have an adverse effect on the Class A vacancy rates for the CBD - which is more a reflection on ownership issues than the health of the downtown real estate market.

Alex Ihnen · PostDec 14, 2006#1652006-12-14T21:20+00:00

"We want to see downtown development move forward, in particular this development, but we don't want it to happen on the backs of taxpayers."

I'm so sick of people who envoke the sacred "taxpayer." How in the H*LL does he think things get done?

May I suggest:

"We'd love to see indoor plumbing, but we don't want it to happen on the backs of taxpayers."

"We'd love to see a new Interstate, but we don't want it to happen on the backs of taxpayers."

"We'd love to provide police protection, but we don't want it to happen on the backs of taxpayers."

The point is that I doubt anyone can site a development in St. Louis (or anywhere else) that was not touched by "taxpayer money," i.e., local, state or federal governement.

One example: The land that is now Forest Park was acquired through emminent domain.

moorlander · PostDec 14, 2006#1662006-12-14T21:28+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:Looks like Heywood Jablowme and his family are about to be out of our lives for good:

And all this time I thought it was Jimmy McPoopie!

bonwich · PostDec 14, 2006#1672006-12-14T21:31+00:00

I'm trying to document this, but I believe that One City Centre was originally built tax-abated. In other words, we got this lovely 25-story building downtown that has never yielded a dime of property tax (it was built in 1986), and now it needs additional tax support. At what point is it valid to say that the City is failing to get an adequate return-on-investment from its tax breaks?

matt · PostDec 14, 2006#1682006-12-14T22:12+00:00

I heard the Slay cancer quote on the news this morning over and over and I think he was talking about St. Louis Center. He stated further that St. Louis Center is the number one complaint about downtown from visitors/tourist. Maybe the quote is taken our of context?

St. Louis Center was built using CDBG.

The vacancy in the tower may not be an issue if whomever manages it would wash the windows and keep it's front door spruced up. For many years the front door has ZERO curb appeal. What business with any kind of decent reputation would want to locate there?

debaliviere · PostDec 14, 2006#1692006-12-14T22:17+00:00

^

That really is a huge problem for it - had the building and mall been configured so that One City Centre faced Washington, it would improve its marketability considerably.

tysalpha · PostDec 14, 2006#1702006-12-14T22:31+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:^

That really is a huge problem for it - had the building and mall been configured so that One City Centre faced Washington, it would improve its marketability considerably.

Not really sure how that would have been possible, with the old Stix, Baer & Fuller building in the way. But why didn't Dillard's lease out or sell that building after they bought SBF? It's not like they have ever really been as committed to the St. Louis market as SBF was. And it's also not like they needed the office space in St. Louis--they could have held their regional offices in one of the larger stores, like Sears did with Northwest for many years.

stldtfan · PostDec 15, 2006#1712006-12-15T00:32+00:00

Matt wrote:I heard the Slay cancer quote on the news this morning over and over and I think he was talking about St. Louis Center. He stated further that St. Louis Center is the number one complaint about downtown from visitors/tourist. Maybe the quote is taken our of context?

St. Louis Center was built using CDBG.

The vacancy in the tower may not be an issue if whomever manages it would wash the windows and keep it's front door spruced up. For many years the front door has ZERO curb appeal. What business with any kind of decent reputation would want to locate there?

This was not taken out of context. These were his words.

thewayofthearch · PostDec 15, 2006#1722006-12-15T04:42+00:00

THose were his words, but I do think it was a reference to the entire site, not just one component or the other.

He did repeat that if this was the way to get the mall redone, they had to do it.

bonwich · PostDec 15, 2006#1732006-12-15T15:08+00:00

And while the Centre itself may have been built with CDBG, the tower was privately funded -- or at least it was financed by TIAA and local banks, which would seem to indicate private funding. I'm still not sure about tax abatement, however.

southslider · PostDec 15, 2006#1742006-12-15T17:30+00:00

Like everyone, I think the situation at St. Louis Centre is important to downtown's comeback. In addition to working downtown, I now live only two blocks from the shuttered mall. However, I don't think the City should risk backing an expanded TIF for One City Center.

Not too many years ago, I thought the renovation of buildings AROUND Old Post Office was dire. Like St. Louis Centre, the Old Post Office itself saw development activity as recently as the 1980s with taxpayer subsidies both twenty-some years ago and now yet again. But like the Ninth Street Garage and its increased developer fees, One City Center seems like an extra project to fatten yet another project for a friend of Slay's.

Yet again, it seems if you're a campaign contributor to Room 200 (last time Stogel and Schnuck, this time Steffen), the normal rules of redevelopment don't apply. And while our objective Comptroller remains a reliable watchdog, I was very disappointed that Shrewsbury would act as much like Slay's rubber-stamp as the Mayor's own pick of Reed.

threeonefour · PostDec 15, 2006#1752006-12-15T19:42+00:00

Tysalpha wrote:
DeBaliviere wrote:^

That really is a huge problem for it - had the building and mall been configured so that One City Centre faced Washington, it would improve its marketability considerably.

Not really sure how that would have been possible, with the old Stix, Baer & Fuller building in the way. But why didn't Dillard's lease out or sell that building after they bought SBF? It's not like they have ever really been as committed to the St. Louis market as SBF was. And it's also not like they needed the office space in St. Louis--they could have held their regional offices in one of the larger stores, like Sears did with Northwest for many years.

I guess that One City Centre could've been moved to the SW corner of Sixth and Washington, where the Metrolink stop and the north entrance to the former St. Louis Centre are today. The skybridge to the SB&F/Dillard's building could've been shifted to the west to accommodate the office building. The location in the middle of the block isn't ideal, but it would be much better with some simple enhancements to improve curb appeal, and it will look better still once it is flanked by new businesses on the main level of 600 Washington (St. Louis Centre's future name).

IIRC, Stix Baer & Fuller moved most if not all its administrative offices to Crestwood Plaza, and Dillard's (after buying SB&F in 1983) still maintains some regional offices there (although I wonder how long that will last since their lease on that store expires next year and its closing is an ages-old rumor).

As for the One City Centre TIF proposal- I can see both sides and I have mixed feelings about it.

St. Louis Centre -> MX District downtown

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