same crappy Famous
I shopped at the Macy's downtown last weekend and it was actually pretty busy. I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that there was a Rams game, two Cards games and the Taste of St. Louis going on.
To my surprise, there are 8 floors of good stuff there! The store looks bright and clean, and has everything you'd see at the mall stores, if not more.
If you want a real treat, ride the escalators up to the 7th and 8th floors. They still have the original escalators, and one of them is wood paneled! I talked to a worker who had been with Famous for 35 years and recently returned to that store. He said the bottom 6 floors have a new escalator that came as one piece, and that the top two can't be replaced without doing some major work. He said they don't make parts for the upper two anymore and they have to machine each part needed if one goes down! He said they keep the guys at Otis escalator employed.
He also said the building is like 20 floors and they're using the top floors for offices. He even told me that they used to bring in farm animals for kids on the 10th floor, and that at Christmas they'd transform the store to look like the North Pole. How awesome would it be to regain some of that?!
To my surprise, there are 8 floors of good stuff there! The store looks bright and clean, and has everything you'd see at the mall stores, if not more.
If you want a real treat, ride the escalators up to the 7th and 8th floors. They still have the original escalators, and one of them is wood paneled! I talked to a worker who had been with Famous for 35 years and recently returned to that store. He said the bottom 6 floors have a new escalator that came as one piece, and that the top two can't be replaced without doing some major work. He said they don't make parts for the upper two anymore and they have to machine each part needed if one goes down! He said they keep the guys at Otis escalator employed.
He also said the building is like 20 floors and they're using the top floors for offices. He even told me that they used to bring in farm animals for kids on the 10th floor, and that at Christmas they'd transform the store to look like the North Pole. How awesome would it be to regain some of that?!
I'm sure the crowd was because of the games and Taste of St. Louis. I was in there on Sunday the 24th and we felt like we were the only shoppers in the store. It was kind of sad. But all of the employees were friendly and helpful, so I'm looking forward to doing a lot of my Christmas shopping there.
- 5,433
The downtown Macy's never gets too busy, but business is rather brisk at times during the week, especially during the lunch rush when people flock to Papa Fabarre's on the second floor or the Saint Louis Room on the sixth floor. It's generally quiet on weekends, but business picks up when there's a major event downtown, and/or a Cardinals or Rams gameday.
SoulardD, I hope that Macy's will eventually bring back Santaland. It was eliminated in 1990, just before May Company stripped the downtown store of its flagship status in favor of the then-new Saint Louis Galleria location. When I was a kid, Christmas wasn't Christmas without a trip to Santaland, and I want my son to have a similar experience at some point.
Anyway, the downtown store looks great, and Federated seems committed to its success. I would think that would make the goal of attracting another national chain to the surrounding area (Borders, Whole Foods, etc.) a bit easier...
SoulardD, I hope that Macy's will eventually bring back Santaland. It was eliminated in 1990, just before May Company stripped the downtown store of its flagship status in favor of the then-new Saint Louis Galleria location. When I was a kid, Christmas wasn't Christmas without a trip to Santaland, and I want my son to have a similar experience at some point.
Anyway, the downtown store looks great, and Federated seems committed to its success. I would think that would make the goal of attracting another national chain to the surrounding area (Borders, Whole Foods, etc.) a bit easier...
- 37
Ihnen wrote:Has anyone seen a site plan for 600? I'm a visual learner and don't quite have a full grasp on the changes being made to St. Louis Centre. Believe it or not, I didn't take the chance to shop there before it was shuttered.
For those willing to accept good re-use/planning in Indianapolis as relevant to StL, the Borders downtown on Meridian is a great example of what could go in on Wash Ave. [edit] The interior is fantastic, but I haven't been able to find pics - it's two stories and has preserved the architectural detail [/edit]
I lived in Indy for two years and that Borders is always hopping. The fact that they have a successful mall downtown doesnt hurt it either. I would love to see a chain book store downtown. They can work. Although it is hard to compare Indy and STL. Indy is very compact and easy to get around.
- 10K
I love how that Borders is incorporated into a historic building - it would be great to have something like that in downtown St. Louis.
We'd heard the Ely Walker Building mentioned as courting Borders, but I'm not sure that's really the best location for it. 600 Washington has been mentioned as well - that might be a nice fit.
We'd heard the Ely Walker Building mentioned as courting Borders, but I'm not sure that's really the best location for it. 600 Washington has been mentioned as well - that might be a nice fit.
NY TIMES ARTICLE. October 4, 2006
A lot to do with the former St. Louis Centre;
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/reale ... ref=slogin
A lot to do with the former St. Louis Centre;
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/reale ... ref=slogin
- 5,433
DeBaliviere wrote:I love how that Borders is incorporated into a historic building - it would be great to have something like that in downtown St. Louis.
That Borders is great. And it was certainly hopping each time I was there, but that's apparently par for the course with downtown Indy in general.
We'd heard the Ely Walker Building mentioned as courting Borders, but I'm not sure that's really the best location for it. 600 Washington has been mentioned as well - that might be a nice fit.
I'd like to see Borders consider these sites, in this order:
- the ground floor (or the first two floors?) of the former Stix Baer & Fuller (Dillard's)
- the Mercantile Library Building
- 600 Washington
- Ballpark Village (although I wouldn't be surprised to see Cordish bring Barnes and Noble to that site).
The first three locations would complement Macy's well, and hopefully attract more retailers (hopefully a mix of independents and national or regional chains) to the traditional retail core of downtown.
- 623
Although I would work almost directly across the street from BPV, a location in the Village would be much less convenient to most office workers and residents living in downtown, and also the convention center traffic.
I like the other three options better.
I like the other three options better.
- 5,433
^ Me too. I just threw Ballpark Village into the list because it is a large, clean-slate development, and Cordish has a reputation of attracting several national chains to its large-scale developments.
- 10K
I think the Merc Library would work really well. Being right next to Macy's would help establish the core of downtown as a retail district.
Lets face it, a major book store located in any proximity to Washington, 7th or the OPO would be a benefit to downtown. But if I were going to choose a location, it would be somewhere off of Olive, particuarly in something like the Union Trust building at Olive and 7th. With the narrow street, major office towers, Famous, and the Arcade Building, the potential to make a great shopping enviroment on Olive is the best of any street downtown.
Agreed. I think Olive would make a great retail strip. It's probably my favorite street downtown. I think the Arcade would be the most ideal spot for a Borders, assuming they could get a huge chunk of the space.
I would be willing to bet that Borders / Barnes and Nobles will open in 600 Washington on street level. Almost positive this will happen soon.
Matt Drops The H wrote:I guess the demand's not there, but...it'd be nice to see a couple more stories and see this turn into a mid-rise or high-rise project. Why does it have to remain close to its original height?
Because they are reusing the existing structure and foundations. They might be able to add a story or two, but no more than that.
Ihnen wrote:Good positive article about downtown in the NY Times . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/reale ... ref=slogin
Amazing...one of the most positive stories I have seen in the print media about St. Louis, and it is in the New York Times.
Where is the closing paragraph that explains how all this effort is for naught, that there are still too many insurmountable problems in St. Louis, the project doesn't make economic sense, someone is trying to take money away from suburban St. Louisans, etc., etc.???
- 729
matguy70 wrote:I would be willing to bet that Borders / Barnes and Nobles will open in 600 Washington on street level. Almost positive this will happen soon.
I'll take that bet. My money is on an area just a hop, skip and a jump to the south.
jlblues wrote:Ihnen wrote:Good positive article about downtown in the NY Times . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/reale ... ref=slogin
Amazing...one of the most positive stories I have seen in the print media about St. Louis, and it is in the New York Times.
Where is the closing paragraph that explains how all this effort is for naught, that there are still too many insurmountable problems in St. Louis, the project doesn't make economic sense, someone is trying to take money away from suburban St. Louisans, etc., etc.???
Isnt this like their 2nd or 3rd this year about St Louis, and positive at that?
- 5,433
jlblues wrote:Where is the closing paragraph that explains how all this effort is for naught, that there are still too many insurmountable problems in St. Louis, the project doesn't make economic sense, someone is trying to take money away from suburban St. Louisans, etc., etc.???
Maybe the Post-Disgrace will recycle the article and add that missing paragraph in a couple of weeks.
I agree with others here about Olive Street- I think it has great potential to serve as downtown's traditional retail core once again. We're never going to have three major department stores downtown again (I thank my lucky stars that we still have one and that its new owner is investing heavily in it). However, we could use the former St. Louis Centre and those three department store buildings (the Syndicate Trust, the Railway Exchange, and the Stix Baer & Fuller buildings) to connect the dots with a mix of national and local retailers along Olive Street and those streets that intersect in this area. I'd like to see a cohesive plan to attract new retailers to this stretch, and improve the streetscape not unlike what's been done on Washington Avenue.
Locust Street presents more of a challenge, but now that Pyramid's plans for St. Louis Centre are moving forward, (and since its completion will result in more retail space facing Macy's on Locust) I wish we could undo a recent mistake made with the neighboring St. Louis Centre garage. Even though the former Woolworth's was vacant for years, I rue the day that it was converted into ground-level parking. I'd like to see a new owner for that garage someday, and hopefully that can be converted into ground-level retail again to complement 600 Washington, Macy's, and the Mercantile Library Building. (I also wish the Ambassador Theater was still at Seventh and Locust...that's easily one of our most senseless demolitions.)
(Edited for clarification. I originally said Olive when I meant Locust in the above paragraph!)
^ I think you mean Locust. St. Louis Center faces Macy's on Locust, the Mercantile Libary Building is on Locust, and the old Woolworths is on Locust as well...
To that point, while I do agree that Locust does have some potential, there is a fundamental disconcect between the OPO and the sections of Locust east of 7th largely because the Amabasador Theater was torn down, leaving two vacant lots at the corner of 7th and Locust, combined with the lack of street activity on the sections of Locust between 7th and 9th, even with the major bus stop. For this same reason, I do worry about any attempts to focus retail on 7th as well, because of the gaps and because of the number of parking garages along the street (3 of the four corners at 7th and Pine are parking garages).
Olive is almost the oposite, with a solid string of buildings from 6th through 10th, even if some are parking garages (such as the two at 7th and Olive, the new Century Garage) and and one parking lot at 6th and Olive. Yet, the remainder includes some teriffic architeture (Chemical, Railroad Exchange, Arcade, Frisco, Union Trust), major office towers (Laclede, Met Square, Railroad Exchange), the one downtown deparment store, many great intact storefronts, City Grocers, and of course an old fashioned mall format in the Arcade. And did I mention the scale of the street, just so narrow with tall buildings, just teriffic for a shopping street, easy for pedestrians to take over the are due to the scale and potential density. The stretch from 6th to 10th along olive is approximatly 1300 feet, so it fits the fundamental 5 minute walk test.
Perhaps even better, with the parking lot at 6th and Olive combined with the number of undeveloped lots west of 10th, there is potential to extend the strip as demand grows.
To that point, while I do agree that Locust does have some potential, there is a fundamental disconcect between the OPO and the sections of Locust east of 7th largely because the Amabasador Theater was torn down, leaving two vacant lots at the corner of 7th and Locust, combined with the lack of street activity on the sections of Locust between 7th and 9th, even with the major bus stop. For this same reason, I do worry about any attempts to focus retail on 7th as well, because of the gaps and because of the number of parking garages along the street (3 of the four corners at 7th and Pine are parking garages).
Olive is almost the oposite, with a solid string of buildings from 6th through 10th, even if some are parking garages (such as the two at 7th and Olive, the new Century Garage) and and one parking lot at 6th and Olive. Yet, the remainder includes some teriffic architeture (Chemical, Railroad Exchange, Arcade, Frisco, Union Trust), major office towers (Laclede, Met Square, Railroad Exchange), the one downtown deparment store, many great intact storefronts, City Grocers, and of course an old fashioned mall format in the Arcade. And did I mention the scale of the street, just so narrow with tall buildings, just teriffic for a shopping street, easy for pedestrians to take over the are due to the scale and potential density. The stretch from 6th to 10th along olive is approximatly 1300 feet, so it fits the fundamental 5 minute walk test.
Perhaps even better, with the parking lot at 6th and Olive combined with the number of undeveloped lots west of 10th, there is potential to extend the strip as demand grows.
- 1,610
I agree with JM that Olive would make a good retail street. Olive already has Starbuck's, Macy's, the new Peoples National Bank, and City Grocers as existing anchors. If Walgreen's would go in the groundfloor of the new Ninth Street Garage on the corner of Olive (ironically its same location in the Century) and Borders or Barnes and Noble into the ground floor of the Arcade at 8th and Olive, all the other smaller spaces in 705 and Chemical would fill in with the added foot traffic. Plus, a bookstore anchor in the arcade would help its interior arcade attract tenants.
St. Louis Centre's transformation into 600 Washington is still years off, but I'm worried about the Arcade's slow progress. Luckily, the Arcade sits between the completed OPO, Paul Brown and started Chemical/Alexa. Eventually, Olive's success will ultimately spill over into neighboring streets like Locust, with 6th, 8th, 9th and 10th being retail connections (8th and 10th especially important as Washington connections). However, if the CBD is ever to have a true retail street (Washington is more for dining) in its near future, Olive offers the most promise with its existing anchors, strong street walls and central location.
St. Louis Centre's transformation into 600 Washington is still years off, but I'm worried about the Arcade's slow progress. Luckily, the Arcade sits between the completed OPO, Paul Brown and started Chemical/Alexa. Eventually, Olive's success will ultimately spill over into neighboring streets like Locust, with 6th, 8th, 9th and 10th being retail connections (8th and 10th especially important as Washington connections). However, if the CBD is ever to have a true retail street (Washington is more for dining) in its near future, Olive offers the most promise with its existing anchors, strong street walls and central location.
- 5,433
JMedwick wrote:^ I think you mean Locust. St. Louis Center faces Macy's on Locust, the Mercantile Libary Building is on Locust, and the old Woolworths is on Locust as well...
Whoops...can you tell I was posting past my bedtime?
I edited the post accordingly!
^You were correct about the Ambassador. Once again, the open space stands as a blocade to future development. Sadly, I would trade the failing Grand Center and the rehabded FOX theater for the Ambassador in a heart beat. Imagine if there was an operating theater on that corner... talk about a potential vibrarant area?!?
Anyways, we clearly agree that Olive should be a focus, now all it would take is someone to follow through. Anyone want to let DTSLP know?
Anyways, we clearly agree that Olive should be a focus, now all it would take is someone to follow through. Anyone want to let DTSLP know?
- 5,433
^ I thought DTSLP had someone whose job was to attract retailers to downtown, and that Olive Street was the their focus. Of course, I haven't heard anything in a long time about these efforts.
It wouldn't hurt those of us concerned to share our opinions with the DTSLP, because if bringing more businesses to the traditional retail core on and near Olive Street is on their radar, perhaps we can get an update.
It wouldn't hurt those of us concerned to share our opinions with the DTSLP, because if bringing more businesses to the traditional retail core on and near Olive Street is on their radar, perhaps we can get an update.