Being familiar with Cincinnati, you've probably seen the giant video screen on the roof of the Macy's building overlooking Fountain Square. It shows movies, Reds games and other programming, and people bring lawn chairs and sit out and watch. Something like that would be perfect for a Kiener garage.Alex Ihnen wrote:I suddenly really like the idea of putting a semi-permanent outdoor movie theater on top of a Kiener garage for the summer. Awesome views, parking, deck is sloped... Yes, this is a good idea.
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The only thing perfect for the Kiener garage is the wrecking ball. At some point, that thing needs to go.... what needs to go in is graceful mid to high rise residential with street level restaurants, etc. What a waste of an iconic view that could reap an amazing economic harvest; instead we have two blocks of embarrasingly ugly parking garage. Unbelievable.debaliviere wrote:Being familiar with Cincinnati, you've probably seen the giant video screen on the roof of the Macy's building overlooking Fountain Square. It shows movies, Reds games and other programming, and people bring lawn chairs and sit out and watch. Something like that would be perfect for a Kiener garage.
^ btw, the two blocks south of Keiner Plaza don't take nearly as much advantage of the million view as could be, but I give props to Hilton for putting in its awesome conference space and of course for the rooftop bar.
Whoa, whoa, whoa...easy there, big fella. If you remember, we already had 10 screens at Union Station and that didn't turn out too well -- for the theater or for Union Station. Heck, even the Loew's Theater in Chicago only has nine, and that's right on Michigan Avenue where ~30,000 pedestrians pass every weekday!survivor147 wrote:I have been dying with hope that one day soon STL city downtown would get a 20 screen theater (or some roughly substantial number), preferably AMC. I would definitely go there instead of the Wehrenberg hell holes I visit now.
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I agree, but I don't see that happening any time soon. For now, it's probably best to just polish those turds as best we can.roger wyoming II wrote:The only thing perfect for the Kiener garage is the wrecking ball. At some point, that thing needs to go.... what needs to go in is graceful mid to high rise residential with street level restaurants, etc. What a waste of an iconic view that could reap an amazing economic harvest; instead we have two blocks of embarrasingly ugly parking garage. Unbelievable.debaliviere wrote:Being familiar with Cincinnati, you've probably seen the giant video screen on the roof of the Macy's building overlooking Fountain Square. It shows movies, Reds games and other programming, and people bring lawn chairs and sit out and watch. Something like that would be perfect for a Kiener garage.
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^ true enough; but if we don't redevelop our most attractive properties for residential we'll never boost our population. Which leads to a question, is there any kind of goal for downtown population for 2020 in any civic plans?
So many street level restaurants. Isn't there something else that can be street level without it being a restaurant or retail?
Just to be fair to the MX district. They did a wonderful job bringing the Laurel back to life with the residential/hotel component. Also we are far from done rehabbing big historic buildings. There is atleast 20 large historical brick warehouses that can be converted to apartment buildings. There are some especially beautiful buildings on Locust and Olive between Jefferson and Tucker that I wish had plans for re-use. We still need historic tax credits for sure. Major infill development, like hi-rise towers, in what is technically downtown is still a good 5-10 years away, in my humble opinion.
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^ I'd love to see the remaining good candidates for historic residential rehab mapped along with an estimate of number of individual units for each.
I know Chouteau Landing has a beautiful historic stock off top. Locust between 22nd and Jefferson, Locust between 17th and 19th, also a few really big buildings in the downtown core like Jefferson Arms, Chemical Building, Arcade etc. North Broadway near the Cass Avenue bridge also has potential to be a Washington Avenue styled district, with great views of the Arch and CBD. The area would need major infrastructure upgrades and zoning changes to go forward though. If you look at the trestle plans they make mention of a North Broadway district and I believe this area was recently designated a historic district.
According to the Downtown Next 2020 plan by the DT Partnership, their goal is 20k residents by 2020. We have roughly 13k now, so we would need to add 7,000 in 8 years. If we were to add 875 residents per year and kept the unit occupancy ratio at 1.8 persons per unit, then we would need to add 400+ units per year, for 8 years (3,200 units).roger wyoming II wrote:^ true enough; but if we don't redevelop our most attractive properties for residential we'll never boost our population. Which leads to a question, is there any kind of goal for downtown population for 2020 in any civic plans?
Disclaimer: This is just a complete estimate and speculation.
How many rehabs can we do before we add new construction?:
1. Jefferson Arms 400 units
2. Arcade 400 units
3. Chemical 130 units
4. Mercantile Library 200 units
5. 2035 Lucas 50 Units
6. Centenary apts 100
7. Roberts tower 80
8. 917 Locust 100 units
total: 1,460
Then class C or B office to residential conversion:
1. Frisco building 150
2. Laclede Gas & Light 70
3. old STL Post Dispatch building 70
total: 290
Then new construction:
1. BPV 300
2. Union Station 300
total: 600
Grand total of 2,350 units. If we can do this in 8 years, I'll be more than happy. Of course, I think we would need to add like 10k jobs downtown over that same period for this to happen. If our officials get very strategic, this could happen.
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The streetscape around the MX development could also soon get a facelift. The city of St. Louis has submitted an application to the East-West Gateway Council of Government for a $2 million grant that would fund improvements to sidewalks, lighting and decorations on Washington Avenue, from 7th Street to Memorial Drive.
Harris said the $2 million grant required a $400,000 match, which the city was not able to provide. Instead, Spinnaker and Stifel Financial Corp. have agreed to split the match, Harris said. Stifel bought its headquarter building at 501 N. Broadway, adjacent to the MX development, last August for $20 million.
^ This is why it is so important having a corporate presence in our city.
It will be good to have everything leased up BEFORE next years class of SLU Law students starts apartment hunting. The Roberts and Chemical buildings seem like they'd required less remediation/renovation and less capital in general than the bigger, more complex Arcade and Jefferson Arms projects.
We need even more investment in public infrastructure downtown. Go to any other major city and you will quickly realize that our streetscapes are a joke and downtown outside of Washington Ave has a blighted feel. We haven't invested enough in the small things. Locust, Olive and Pine should look like Washington Avenue. Would it really hurt the city and EW Gateway to invest $20-30 million in improving streetscapes downtown? The return on investment would be crazy. Look at Washington Avenue for proof.
^Amen! I believe it is that simple. Downtown sidewalks, streetlights and traffic lights are a joke. I think a $10 investment in infrastructure would deliver far more impact in bringing in development than $50 million in TIFs.
Absolutely agree. Washington Avenue is a success largely because of the street and sidewalk improvements, imo. You can and will get what you ask for, if you simply make those improvements in the rest of downtown. So much of the city hasn't seen upgrades since the 60's, and that has to change.
^Everything is simple when you have money. The city has none though. And $10 million doesn't get you very far
I would presume taxes on the economic activity that results from the investment. For instance if you issue $60M to fund major infrastructure, attract residents, businesses etc, the idea would be that over timeframe X, economic activity in the debt funded zone would pay for the improvements which made the economic activity feasible in the first place. If $60M in investment can attract another 10k people to downtown, and you set the payback period at 5 years, we're talking about each resident's presence generating about $1200 in tax revenue per year, either through those folks' spending, business creation and expansion in that zone, the spending of people who are in the neighborhood to visit the new 10k residents, etc. It seems pretty doable, actually. You just have to get it past the folks who lack math skills and imagination. And those who actively want the city to fail.
Kind of. I was asked how debt would be repaid. You could try to add more voter approved sales tax, do a voter approved bond issue, or you could use the TIF framework without a specific developer at the helm and not require a ballot measure.
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^$50M in downtown sidewalk, lighting, etc. improvements would be exponentially more beneficial to the city than $200M going to the Arch grounds.
There are plans to do street-scape improvements to parts of downtown. My company including myself has done some engineering work for a couple projects. The engineering and design is done, but these are all pretty much shelved until funds are there. One project in particular was originally a plan for the entire downtown area. That was back in 2008, and since then has been downsized to just a couple blocks.
So its not as if the city doesn't see the benefit of doing street improvements or doesn't want to. It just doesn't have the money. And they don't exactly have to personnel, time, or resources to pursue funding from other sources.
So its not as if the city doesn't see the benefit of doing street improvements or doesn't want to. It just doesn't have the money. And they don't exactly have to personnel, time, or resources to pursue funding from other sources.