St. Louis Cardinals

moorlander · PostSep 23, 2010#3262010-09-23T14:02+00:00

I love Pujols and I would LOVE to see him retire a career Cardinal. But I'm sorry, if resigning him means we suck for the next 6-8 years than TRADE HIM. Having a few star players surrounded by minor leaguers will not work in the major leagues.

Only sign Pujols if you raise the payroll to 120-130 million. We cannot have 2 players (Matt and Albert) making 45% of our payroll.

Our farm system sucks. As much as it hurts to say, I want to see winning baseball. Fans will get over it when we continue to win. Trade Albert this offseason PLEASE.

timeforguinness · PostSep 23, 2010#3272010-09-23T14:07+00:00

You don't trade a once in a generation type player.
You also don't field a bad baseball team around him.

You bump up the payroll for 7 years, sign Pujols and a few other pieces, and go win some effin' World Series.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 23, 2010#3282010-09-23T14:09+00:00

^^You are right about one thing. All we want to see is winning baseball.
Taking a page out of the books of the teams from the 80's, winning without a ton of starpower is fine with us, as long as we are winning.

^I agree, open those wallets and put a winner on the field, even if it means bumping payroll for 5-7 years. They CAN afford it!

timeforguinness · PostSep 23, 2010#3292010-09-23T14:16+00:00

They can afford it because if Pujols retires a Cardinal, they'll have a ton of jerseys selling for the next 50 years, a new statue dedication to rival the Musial statue, Cooperstown celebration, opening day, etc, etc, etc. This isn't about baseball, it's about Cardinal lore...you can't put a price tag on that.

Bump up the payroll, go win some titles, and cement Pujols and DeWitt's name in history.

Sidenote: If Pujols is signed, retires a Cardinal, and gets a large statue like Stan...where would you put it? Personally, I think they should move Stan's to the left and put Pujols on the right and put a home plate between them at the main entrance (bridge entrance). Has a "lions at the gate" type of feel.

gary kreie · PostSep 23, 2010#3302010-09-23T18:00+00:00

This sounds just like the argument the Blues fans had a few years ago when they were making the playoffs every year but not winning the Stanley Cup. People started getting the idea that the soloution was to get rid of Brett Hull. I wondered who would replace all the goals he scored. Nobody did. The Blues franchise has never recovered from that disastrous decision. Brett, on the other hand, went to Dallas and helped them win the Stanley Cup.

If you trade Pujols, the team we trade him to will become a favorite to win the World Series, and the Cards will fall to fourth or fifth in our division -- not first or second.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 23, 2010#3312010-09-23T19:06+00:00

^ I dont know that I necessarily agree with your comparison. The reason the Blues and some fans wanted Hull traded, was due to the fact that they felt he was a cancer in the locker room, was bickering with Keenan, distracting the team and not being the team leader on the ice, like the Blues wanted him to be. Little did they know, Hull fit better as an important cog in the wheel vs. the end all be all leader the Blues expected him to be. Put Hull in the right role, as one of many stars, as Dallas and Detroit did and you see how he prospered. In the case of Pujols, there is NO question that he is the 'MANg'. The question is, can the Cards afford him and stay within their budget and strategy for staying competitive? Knowing the salary structure that the organization has decided to operate within, Pujols does not really fit into that structure, with Matt H. and other salaries of note. I respect Pujols. His role on the team is of the utmost importance. I just dont want to see more of this year's type team, just to see Pujols retire a Cardinal. I want a winner, no matter what. I'd love to see him stay and the Cards up their payroll to fill voids, but that is not likely.

PS_ I would like to see the Cards dump Tony L. and hire Ron Gardenhire or Rays manager Joe Maddon. I think that is the only way to change the horrible environment in the Cards clubhouse and organization.

shimmy · PostSep 24, 2010#3322010-09-24T16:45+00:00

TimeForGuinness wrote:You don't trade a once in a generation type player.
You also don't field a bad baseball team around him.

This.

The pieces are there now. An outfield of Holliday, Rasmus, and Jay is solid. Then of course you have Albert at first, and then Ryan at short. Granted, he doesn't have the best bat, but he does have a better bat than what he showed this year. Plus, he has one of the best defensive gloves in the league. Then you have Yadi and Anderson behind the plate to catch a Wainwright, Carp, Garcia, Westbrook and Penny(?) rotation.

That leaves holes at third and at second. And really, it's only a hole at third if Freese can't stay healthy, which I'm not confident that he can. So with that in mind I would love to see us get someone like a Brandon Inge to platoon with at third. I would also love to see us get a second baseman like an Orlando Hudson and move Skip to the role player position along with Greene, Miles, and Craig. I know some people are high on Descalso, but I have to admit that I haven't been able to see too many games lately so I don't really know what he has.

How about we get rid of Lohse and the $12 million we owe him next year? I don't see that happening, as I don't know of any team that would pick him up, but hell, I'd be willing to split the contract 6 mil each.

the central scrutinizer · PostSep 24, 2010#3332010-09-24T18:09+00:00

Shimmy wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:You don't trade a once in a generation type player.
You also don't field a bad baseball team around him.
This.

The pieces are there now. An outfield of Holliday, Rasmus, and Jay is solid. Then of course you have Albert at first, and then Ryan at short. Granted, he doesn't have the best bat, but he does have a better bat than what he showed this year. Plus, he has one of the best defensive gloves in the league. Then you have Yadi and Anderson behind the plate to catch a Wainwright, Carp, Garcia, Westbrook and Penny(?) rotation.

That leaves holes at third and at second. And really, it's only a hole at third if Freese can't stay healthy, which I'm not confident that he can. So with that in mind I would love to see us get someone like a Brandon Inge to platoon with at third. I would also love to see us get a second baseman like an Orlando Hudson and move Skip to the role player position along with Greene, Miles, and Craig. I know some people are high on Descalso, but I have to admit that I haven't been able to see too many games lately so I don't really know what he has.

How about we get rid of Lohse and the $12 million we owe him next year? I don't see that happening, as I don't know of any team that would pick him up, but hell, I'd be willing to split the contract 6 mil each.

Penny was only signed for 1 year, so he's gone. Rasmus is a goner too. Not only does Tony not like him, he's not popular in the clubhouse. He's J.D. Drew Jr.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 24, 2010#3342010-09-24T18:33+00:00

^Penny has to go, no question. Has been an injury prone meatball for some time. Is productive when healthy, yes, has he stayed healthy, NO. Dump him.
Holes in the current lineup: Ryan, 3rd base (doubt Freese can stay healthy), 4th-5th starter, right field, lefthander in pen, closer, utility player.

Why do many think Freese is going to be such a difference maker. He has issues staying healthy. Penny too. Jay, sorry no way! He was good at first, then he came back down to earth. In no way is he an everyday player at this point. Cards do not need another slap hitter in the lineup. Ludwick was a good fit in this lineup, but his bat can be replaced, just not with Jay. Ryan is good in the field, but has to hit at LEAST
250-280. Schumacher has to hit 275-300, at least. They need a BIG bat in right, maybe Ryan Dunn. He would not be ideal in the field, but what a line up that would be! Then you can afford the holes created by Molina, Ryan and sometimes Schumacher.

^Regarding Rasmus, NO WAY they trade him for ONE reason. His salary is VERY low, for what you get. Larussa and Rasmus will have to learn to live together. NO question, they keep him, mainly to save money. I'd agree with you if he had a big salary.

If Mo does not make some MAJOR changes, the Cards could be entering some lean years. Years we have not seen in a long time.

pat · PostSep 24, 2010#3352010-09-24T18:41+00:00

You can't get rid of Pujols. He could be a legend. He's up there with Ruth, Dimaggio, Willams, Mays, Aaron. And look how those players defined there ball clubs, let alone baseball.

Also, there's not a lot of teams that can afford Pujols. Most of the teams that can afford him already have an above average first basemen (Philly, New York, Boston, etc.).

Doug Vaughn on the Morning After brought up a good point that if we drop Penny and Lohse, that frees up quite a lot of money that can go straight to Pujols. And we still have pretty much the same team.

Increase pay-roll to $110 million, pick up a solid hitting middle-infielder, continue to develop the farm system (we had a solid one until we traded them off for Derosa and Holiday), and I think we'll be good.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 24, 2010#3362010-09-24T19:16+00:00

Good luck getting someone to take Lohse off of our hands. It is not like the NFL, where you can dump a slug and not pay him. He is due a fortune, considering what we are getting in return. Another mistake by MO. Gave a guy too much for performing well in a contract year. I was for the deal, just not at that price. Same with the Holiday deal. Mo is handcuffing the franchise and Pujols signing will do that even further, unless Dewitt opens up the wallet and increases payroll.

moorlander · PostSep 24, 2010#3372010-09-24T20:22+00:00

Zero percent chance Colby is traded. He's young, plays a critical position, has pop, and is cheap.

Jay is a well below average outfielder. He may hit 300 but with no pop. You need more from a right fielder.

the central scrutinizer · PostSep 24, 2010#3382010-09-24T20:50+00:00

Moorlander wrote:Zero percent chance Colby is traded. He's young, plays a critical position, has pop, and is cheap.

Being cheap is the only thing that would save him. He won't be here long term without some major changes in attitude.

shimmy · PostSep 25, 2010#3392010-09-25T13:34+00:00

^Well with Albert's contract coming up being cheap might be the only thing that matters.

I disagree about Jay and needing another power bat in right. We already have 3 good power bats in the heart of our order with Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus (when Tony bats him 5th

). And maybe he's not an everyday right fielder, but then we could platoon him with Skip and Craig. I'm not a big fan of platoons either, but trying to be realistic about what we can put on the field next year. I really don't think there's anyway we can afford an Adam Dunn.

I don't think Ryan needs a replacement, because in most years he will hit in the 250-280 range. So, as I still believe, that leaves us with a hole at second and a question mark at third.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 27, 2010#3402010-09-27T12:51+00:00

^If we have so much power, why can't the Cards hit....because Pujols and Holiday have been very streaky. Rasmus is as well. Another power hitter, even a Ludwick type bat would help. Jay is NOT the answer, unless you want to see more of the same next year.
A team CANNOT have this many holes in the line up and expect to win. The 2000s Cards didn't have all of the holes and you see the result. Ownership has replaced those guys with overrated players like Ryan, Jay and Schumacher. I like Schumacher, but he clearly regressed, as did the others mentioned. You already have Molina and the pitchers spot as sure outs (most of the time). A team cannot to afford to have sure outs at short, second, third and right. That is why the Cards are watching the post-season from the golf course.

PostSep 28, 2010#3412010-09-28T14:15+00:00

I wonder if Dewitt considers this years Cards team to be "competitive"
If you remember, they needed a new stadium to remain "competitive".
Well, they are still fighting for the Division and it is almost October.
What more could we ask for!!!

PostFeb 23, 2011#3422011-02-23T17:58+00:00

This is just awful news!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring201 ... id=6150113

shimmy · PostFeb 25, 2011#3432011-02-25T19:18+00:00

What a s****y week,

innov8ion · PostOct 16, 2013#3442013-10-16T22:08+00:00

I'm surprised there's not a thread to talk about the Cards...

wabash · PostOct 17, 2013#3452013-10-17T00:37+00:00

I want them to win ASAP, but it helps soften the blow that they are coming back, that the news-media will be back in/on St. Louis, the hotels will be full, the bars will be packed, the sidewalks will be bustling, and the cards will have the opportunity to win the pennant in front of 47,000 St. Louisans.

downtown2007 · PostOct 17, 2013#3462013-10-17T13:20+00:00

Great for bars and hotels. Bad for upscale restaurants. Few want to go have a steak when the NLCS is on.

innov8ion · PostOct 17, 2013#3472013-10-17T16:17+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:Great for bars and hotels. Bad for upscale restaurants. Few want to go have a steak when the NLCS is on.

The games start at 730pm. Nothing's keeping our visitors from enjoying a nice meal beforehand, right?

southsidepride · PostOct 17, 2013#3482013-10-17T16:58+00:00

^In theory, no. But when folks come into town for Cards games they generally dress for the occasion. And are less likely to want to go to a nice sit down restaurant in a Beltran jersey.

Plus in order to get to the game on time they'd be having that meal at 4:30 or so. That's more of a Bob Evans on Lindbergh kinda thang

rawest1 · PostOct 17, 2013#3492013-10-17T17:10+00:00

southsidepride wrote:That's more of a Bob Evans on Lindbergh kinda thang

It's been ages since I've eaten there. I know what I'm doing this weekend!

gone corporate · PostOct 17, 2013#3502013-10-17T19:38+00:00

^^Then again, head into Carmine's, Tony's, or Mike Shannon's on Friday and try to get a table. See how many people are wearing red, and very much note how the crowds will gather there around 5PM for dinner. Acknowledged, more red polo shirts rather than Beltran t-shirts, but I bet more than one jersey will be spotted in each venue just named. And surely, it'll be so crowded, you won't get that table without a reservation (if still available). It's good all around Downtown, not just at Paddy O's.

GO CARDS!

St. Louis Cardinals

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