urbanSTL

^Yeah, the Pevely building was definitely better. Ceding development authority over an entire neighborhood to SLU was a remarkably bad idea.

Could you imagine being a teacher in SLUs school of urban planning, trying to teach your students about industry best practices, while your parent organization is constantly coming out with this disrespectful sh*t?

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2023

But why?  This is a hospital, you don't get pop-in customers.  This design look straight out of the 80s. 

Don’t disagree that surface parking should be moved but it’s key to remember that a large portion of patients that go to Cardinal Glennon live far outside the metro area thus the need for some level of parking. Based on the rendering the parking lot looks to primarily serve the ED entrance which requires some level of accessible parking for people not arriving via EMS especially at a children’s hospital where that’s how a majority of parents are bringing their child to the ED. Definitely need to see more but I wouldn’t be surprised if they plan to share the main parking garage that exists between SLU Hospital and this new Cardinal Glennon instead of building another garage.

This really ought to be stopped. This is being built along the busiest bus line in the city, no more than a good 3-iron from the metro link.

Khakis wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2023

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2023

But why?  This is a hospital, you don't get pop-in customers.  This design look straight out of the 80s. 

Don’t disagree that surface parking should be moved but it’s key to remember that a large portion of patients that go to Cardinal Glennon live far outside the metro area thus the need for some level of parking. Based on the rendering the parking lot looks to primarily serve the ED entrance which requires some level of accessible parking for people not arriving via EMS especially at a children’s hospital where that’s how a majority of parents are bringing their child to the ED. Definitely need to see more but I wouldn’t be surprised if they plan to share the main parking garage that exists between SLU Hospital and this new Cardinal Glennon instead of building another garage.

How does St. Louis Children's Hospital manage without surface parking on Kingshighway?

I like it. Having been a patient at Cardinal Glennon growing up (for cancer treatment), and seeing my siblings receive care at Cardinal Glennon as they grew up for multiple things, this is great to see. The current facility is showing its age and it's time to move into a new facility. A slightly larger one (by total beds) at that!

The design's good. It matches the new SLU hospital, so the design style is starting to be set here as the hospital campus develops. I'm not bothered by the parking lot fronting Grand and Chouteau. If the argument against the lot is "well Barnes doesn't have something like that", fine. But look at each area and get back to me on this one. You cannot compare the Central West End/Barnes to Midtown/SLU Hospital. One is significantly denser and larger than the other and shoehorned into smaller spaces. SLU Hospital can afford to spread out and has lots of room to grow as a result. 

The parking lot fronting Grand could one day become the site of some sort of outpatient facility or medical building. Despite it not going anywhere, remember that there is a plan out there for a surgery center to be built on the grassy parcel in front of the parking garage on Grand (pictured). So this surface lot reads to me as a future development site. In the interim, it serves people arriving by car from the suburbs who have to bring their kids to the emergency room, or are in a hurry to visit their kids/grandkids in the event something is going wrong. This is not a bad thing and planners should not be vilified for it either. Now, the parking lot along Chouteau, the argument can be different since it's no longer adjacent to the emergency room, but I'm still not bothered by it.

Build it as presented, and it seems like that's what's happening.

I gotta be honest, the only people I see complaining about this are the most ardent urbanists. Most everyone else is happy that this is happening. I'm happy because healthcare for children, which helped my siblings and I out greatly, is taking a huge step forward. I'm not concerned about the urban aspects of this for that reason. Better healthcare for our young outweighs the urban argument by a huge margin.

No one is saying don't build it. Stop with the straw man BS. The problem is buildings set back promote fast and careless driving. People living here shouldn't have to deal with the stress and risk to life just to walk on Grand to access the bus, Metrolink, the hospital, or ride a bike.
LaSalle street is right there to provide for a convenient and pleasant drop off place.

^ BJC hospitals are all up on Kingshighway where fast driving happens

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:This really ought to be stopped. This is being built along the busiest bus line in the city, no more than a good 3-iron from the metro link.

People might not be saying to explicitly not build it, but they sure do elude to it.

As far as the driving habits of people go, you see people driving like maniacs in all cities. Built up or not. It's a common trait. 

The "all or nothing" urbanist approach being taken by some is going to push a lot of people, who were on the fence about the subject, away from the cause. 

They aren't saying don't build it, and even if a couple people are, who cares? They won't be listened to.

quincunx wrote:No one is saying don't build it. Stop with the straw man BS. The problem is buildings set back promote fast and careless driving. People living here shouldn't have to deal with the stress and risk to life just to walk on Grand to access the bus, Metrolink, the hospital, or ride a bike.
LaSalle street is right there to provide for a convenient and pleasant drop off place.

Thinking that just building setbacks are the issue causing speeding is funny. I hope you don’t have an urban planning degree because if you do you’d surely know there are many more additional reasons to fast paced driving then just setbacks. Wash Ave and Kingshighway speeders say hi.

Never said it was the only reason

LArchitecture wrote: ↑

Sep 30, 2023

quincunx wrote:No one is saying don't build it. Stop with the straw man BS. The problem is buildings set back promote fast and careless driving. People living here shouldn't have to deal with the stress and risk to life just to walk on Grand to access the bus, Metrolink, the hospital, or ride a bike.
LaSalle street is right there to provide for a convenient and pleasant drop off place.

Thinking that just building setbacks are the issue causing speeding is funny. I hope you don’t have an urban planning degree because if you do you’d surely know there are many more additional reasons to fast paced driving then just setbacks. Wash Ave and Kingshighway speeders say hi.

You should probably work on reading comprehension. Large setbacks promoting speeding is well researched and documented, no one said it's the only factor. Kind of funny to include some straw man BS replying to a post specifically calling out straw man BS.

I feel like we need a site plan. It's hard to contextualize the massing/distance in relation to Grand/Chouteau, like why don't they put the parking adjacent to the SSM garage? I get that the Pevely building is missed but there is no way that could have ever been converted to be a part of the hospital especially with the complexity/requirements of modern-day hospitals.

Not knowing: Does Cardigan Glennon have a similar set up for families/children as the Ronald McDonald House 4321 Chouteau?

_nomad_ wrote:

LArchitecture wrote: ↑

Sep 30, 2023

quincunx wrote:No one is saying don't build it. Stop with the straw man BS. The problem is buildings set back promote fast and careless driving. People living here shouldn't have to deal with the stress and risk to life just to walk on Grand to access the bus, Metrolink, the hospital, or ride a bike.
LaSalle street is right there to provide for a convenient and pleasant drop off place.

Thinking that just building setbacks are the issue causing speeding is funny. I hope you don’t have an urban planning degree because if you do you’d surely know there are many more additional reasons to fast paced driving then just setbacks. Wash Ave and Kingshighway speeders say hi.

You should probably work on reading comprehension. Large setbacks promoting speeding is well researched and documented, no one said it's the only factor. Kind of funny to include some straw man BS replying to a post specifically calling out straw man BS.

Calling out reading comprehension when I said there are additional reasons beyond setback. Nice. Perhaps instead of just calling out the setback the first problem should have been called out such as the road design itself. Various research proves a properly designed road slows traffic down.

Setback or no setback the dangerous driving would occur on this stretch of Grand regardless due to the issues at hand being the design of the road itself. Which is the case in many parts of the city. If the city could fix the roads to be designed with the intent of safety for all rather than efficiency for cars, an appropriate setback would just be a cherry on top. Which in this case, due to the siting of other campus buildings, where they have this new one placed makes sense and is completely appropriate.

$300M building permit application submitted for new Cardinal Glennon Hospital 

Let's hope the site plan improves.

NextSTL - New Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital needs site plan adjustment

https://nextstl.com/2024/01/new-cardina ... djustment/

A little off topic from the current saucy argument, but this area needs a hotel or two in a bad way. You have:

• SSM and Children's which would be the main huge drivers of business
• SLU South Campus (and main campus a short bus ride away)
• Exploding midtown district
• Several wedding venues nearby with no convenient hotel (IE the Wild Carrot)

The Desloge Building would be the most obvious choice for conversion but I would welcome something more affordable like a Home2/Hampton Inn new build as well.

The vacant lot between McRee and Lafeyette might be a good spot for a hotel. Might be too small though.

According to the leasing brochure for steelcote square it looks like they may have a hotel planned in the future