Southtown Centre - Kingshighway and Chippewa

debaliviere · PostAug 14, 2005#12005-08-14T20:37+00:00

Have any potential tenants been mentioned for the numerous vacant spaces still available in this lovely strip mall? Starbucks and Quizno's are nice to have, but it seems strange that it's still mostly empty.

I can't help but think that had the developers actually built a development like the one the neighborhood groups wanted, this thing would be a lot more successful. I guess you gotta have a drive-thru Walgreen's on every corner.

matt drops the h · PostAug 14, 2005#22005-08-14T22:34+00:00

This development particularly irks me. What a waste of a space that could have had so much potential with urban infill.

I know it's nothing but a pipe dream, but I would have loved to have seen a New Urbanism type set up in this location. I think a small street should have been created just north of Chippewa and just south of Tholozan. Then the stores could have faced Chippewa and Kingshighway. This new street in the middle could have featured large sidewalk patios for any restaurants interested. Parking could have been along Tholozan and this new street. Just a dream. Oh well.

I do love Cold Stone, dare I say, more than Ted Drewes.

soulardd · PostAug 15, 2005#32005-08-15T12:57+00:00

I haven't been by there in a while, but wasn't a Buffalo Wild Wings supposed to open there? If they have abandoned that idea i think a great location for them would be downtown. Downtown needs a Wings/Sports TV/Trivia place.

debaliviere · PostAug 15, 2005#42005-08-15T13:08+00:00

I think I heard that they had pulled out of the Southtown development. You're right - they would be a good tenant for downtown, and it seems like they have restaurants in the downtowns of other cities.

matt · PostAug 15, 2005#52005-08-15T15:31+00:00

If I wanted to patronize that type of development, I would live in the county.

It's sad that after so many years and on a prime tract of real estate that this type of development went forward...

(St. Louis Martketplace II).

It was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to build a lifestyle center.

Who was the developer again? I wish them tons of luck cause they're going to need it.

debaliviere · PostAug 15, 2005#62005-08-15T15:45+00:00

Developers Diversified Realty.

My biggest problem is the out-parcel building that has its back to Chippewa. What's up with that?

par · PostAug 15, 2005#72005-08-15T16:15+00:00

What about the big wall as you walk down the hill to Kingshighway?

I'd love for someone to recap the history of this development since the department store was demolished. the play between the city the neighborhood and the developers.

framer · PostAug 17, 2005#82005-08-17T04:11+00:00

I grew up in this neighborhood, and spent many, many hours in the old Famous Barr. It was such a treat when my mom would take us to one of the TWO restaraunts inside. That store is where I first met Santa in real life! They had a toy department, a sporting goods department, a pet department, even a stamp collecting department! It's also where both of my sisters got there first jobs. Even before I realised what an architectural gem it was, I was very attached to the place.

WHAT A WASTE!

Expat · PostAug 17, 2005#92005-08-17T12:35+00:00

Tearing down this Famous was a tragedy. I, too, have fond memories of the store and the building was an anchor for the neighborhood. They had a wonderful coffee shop/counter where they served water in paper cones which inserted into metal holders. Hard to describe it, but I LOVED IT!

matt · PostAug 17, 2005#102005-08-17T13:13+00:00

IMHO the old fashioned urban department store has cycled back in. If Federated rehabbed the downtown Famous to include all the old departments and amenities, it would be a huge hit.

Or...

Maybe Wal-Mart will do it in urban locations. It always seems to take a innovator.

Today's consumer wants locations that are different. How is Southtowne any different or better? Why should I select that product over another? Obviously, the developers didn't ask these questions of themselves.

MattnSTL · PostAug 17, 2005#112005-08-17T13:56+00:00

I sure hope it's not Wal-Mart. Evil

. They were interested in plopping a big box here, btw.

Expat · PostAug 17, 2005#122005-08-17T14:04+00:00

I agree Matt. The dumbing down of department stores has been a mistake. They should try to return to the good old days. If Famous (or Macys) downtown would come back the way it used to be, it would be a big hit. In the old days, they gave you SERVICE - they would knock themselves out trying to serve people, offered better lines of clothing & other things, a bakery, confectionery, bookshop, travel agent, hair salon, variety of restaurants, etc. Plus a bargain basement and drugstore type things on the mezanine level. You could practicially live your whole life at Famous-Barr and do it with style. It is very hard to find that type of department store anywhere nowadays, so it is no wonder people think it is just a place to buy socks.

brickandmortar · PostNov 03, 2005#132005-11-03T03:43+00:00

I stopped into the PetSmart tonight and it looks like there is some finishing work going on in the two units farthest to the west(by Starbucks). I don't know what it was. The opening of a few new stores would be nice, but so would a tornado to wipe it off the earth.

(kidding)

It's sad just to see it sit so empty after a year of business, I still wonder about the long term future of retail at this corner.

matt · PostJan 13, 2006#142006-01-13T17:57+00:00

Do you think Office Max will be closing?

This development is an absolute disaster.

jmedwick · PostJan 13, 2006#152006-01-13T18:02+00:00

Wow, i was not aware that the new southtown was such a disaster. I am talking in terms of occupancy, not design.

brickandmortar · PostJan 13, 2006#162006-01-13T18:05+00:00

I read the Office Max press release that they are closing 110 stores in the first quarter 2006, however, this one just opened. I doubt it will be on the list, but with the new Loughborough Commons shopping center opening up a mile away I'm concerned with the longevity of this shopping center.

Expat · PostJan 13, 2006#172006-01-13T18:05+00:00

Is it OK to say, they get what they deserve? Maybe it should be torn down and done over properly. They rip the heart out of a neighborhood and wonder why it is failing.

debaliviere · PostJan 13, 2006#182006-01-13T19:24+00:00

Wow, i was not aware that the new southtown was such a disaster. I am talking in terms of occupancy, not design.

It's really just one strip that appears to be mostly vacant - the south-facing strip of storefronts that is perpendicular to the PetsMart. There is a Quizno's and just a few other shops there, but it's mostly empty.

matt · PostJan 13, 2006#192006-01-13T21:19+00:00

Age of the store or performance doesn't seem to have any bearing on the decision to close stores.

Office Depot had just opened in St. Louis Center and was doing really well when corporate decided to cut back.

brickandmortar · PostJan 30, 2006#202006-01-30T18:36+00:00

I'll post this under the no news is good news category. Office Max announced their store closings to local media outlets last week. Since there has been nothing mentioned by our print/TV media I guess the St. Louis area stores are safe. Stores in Decatur, Nashville, and Chicagoland areas weren't so fortunate.

urbanstlouis · PostMay 26, 2006#212006-05-26T13:54+00:00

I am not sure where they got their information, but the following was reported over at southstlouiscitytalk.blogspot.com...

They have contracts close to being signed on virtually all available completed space. They are also in serious negotiations with a restaurant to go into the 10,000 s.f. planned building.

>>> read more

threeonefour · PostJun 29, 2006#222006-06-29T05:06+00:00

^ A month has passed, and I haven't heard as much as a peep from the rumor mill. And I haven't seen any tangible signs of progress at the shopping center either. I wonder where the blogger received this information.

I like Starbucks, along with the occasional trip to Cold Stone, but I cannot get over what a complete failure this development is.

archmadness · PostJul 07, 2006#232006-07-07T19:42+00:00

^and how predictable the failure was too.

rustedhinge · PostJul 10, 2006#242006-07-10T06:47+00:00

ArchMadness wrote:^and how predictable the failure was too.

I remember the hoopla regarding this development. I think for most of us on this forum, the failure was predictable. For the city governent and media it was touted as a great development.

The site sat vacant for a long time so I wonder if the city and alderperson just forced the project. At the same time "new urbanism" wasn't a buzz word during design development so this idea wasn't really pushed. I don't think anyone challenged the developers in the way urbanites do now.

Quickly, what would you like to see on the site if it were razed? Would you reintroduce housing behind a facade of storefronts and shops along kingshighway and chippewa? I have to believe that it should have been that all along. #-o

matt · PostJul 10, 2006#252006-07-10T17:17+00:00

Forward thinking urbanism has been around for a long time. Although I agree with your thoughts, what we could use are more leaders that travel a bit more and are hungry and thirsty for new ideas and knowledge. IMHO, the southtown design didn't reflect any of the best and brightest development practice of the past 10 years. It was cut from the same pattern that's been in use since the 1960s.