Harry's is also closing at the end of the month:
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/m ... witterfeed
never been.
http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/m ... witterfeed
never been.
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^ as far as the commenters are concerned it's the crime, duh. Because, yah know, downtown just "feels" dangerous. It couldn't possibly be that Ballpark Village is largely to blame. 
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^ "To blame"...it's competition. The experience at BPV is better than Harry's.
Syberg's seems to be doing just fine located across the street from Harry's.
Mike Shannon's was always a place that in my opinion was over priced for the dining experience. I think they continued to operate the past 5-10 years based upon how much business they generated through "The Outfield"...which again, pretty pricey but for a while had little competition. If I want a good steak dinner and plan on spending that kind of money Shannon's wasn't on my list.
I really do believe that the BPV experience is better than places like Harry's, The Dubliner, or The Outfield. And although I feel like it's a manufactured fear, people from the county really do have a sense of fear going downtown. It irritates me to no end when someone says something like that but it happens.
Syberg's seems to be doing just fine located across the street from Harry's.
Mike Shannon's was always a place that in my opinion was over priced for the dining experience. I think they continued to operate the past 5-10 years based upon how much business they generated through "The Outfield"...which again, pretty pricey but for a while had little competition. If I want a good steak dinner and plan on spending that kind of money Shannon's wasn't on my list.
I really do believe that the BPV experience is better than places like Harry's, The Dubliner, or The Outfield. And although I feel like it's a manufactured fear, people from the county really do have a sense of fear going downtown. It irritates me to no end when someone says something like that but it happens.
I blame local media for the fear every-time some thing happens downtown it all over their facebook pages and social media while the same crime happens in the county it is downplayed.NickOnDelor wrote:^ "To blame"...it's competition. The experience at BPV is better than Harry's.
Syberg's seems to be doing just fine located across the street from Harry's.
Mike Shannon's was always a place that in my opinion was over priced for the dining experience. I think they continued to operate the past 5-10 years based upon how much business they generated through "The Outfield"...which again, pretty pricey but for a while had little competition. If I want a good steak dinner and plan on spending that kind of money Shannon's wasn't on my list.
I really do believe that the BPV experience is better than places like Harry's, The Dubliner, or The Outfield. And although I feel like it's a manufactured fear, people from the county really do have a sense of fear going downtown. It irritates me to no end when someone says something like that but it happens.
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I never said otherwise, but suburbanites around here can't seem to fathom that something other than crime might be responsible. That St. Louisan's (and I use the term loosely) find the experience at a papier mache corporate theme park to be better than that at any number of organicly-grown downtown bars/restaurants says as much about St. Louisans as it does about those businesses, though.NickOnDelor wrote:^ "To blame"...it's competition...
Do people really actually eat the food at BPV? I did once when it opened but haven't been back
Restaurants like mike Shannon's, J Bucks, and Harry's are all far past their prime. 1990's relics that weren't drawing new 20-somethings in.
It's funny to read older peoples comments on stltoday. They clearly have NO idea that Wheelhouse and BPV draw huge crowds of young people every weekend. I heard there were hundreds of people at wheelhouse on Saturday night. They honestly think that Clayton is still the hot spot to go out for these people. Clearly, being old and out of it, they have no idea that it's still downtown, and also the Grove where young people go now. Clayton is for people over 40 to have a "night out on the town".
Sadly, many are afraid to come downtown to places like Al's, Tony's, blood and sand, death in the afternoon, the bridge, etc. so, yes, crime still does need to be addressed, but it's no worse than it was years ago.
downtown will continue to get better and better with more residential conversions. Occupancy is high and is staying strong. These idiots in far flung suburban areas want to feel vindicated by trashing the city any chance they get. The media also plays up the "city is faltering" storyline because they know it sells to these idiots. J bucks closed in Clayton as did Pomme, pomme cafe, etc.
Restaurants like mike Shannon's, J Bucks, and Harry's are all far past their prime. 1990's relics that weren't drawing new 20-somethings in.
It's funny to read older peoples comments on stltoday. They clearly have NO idea that Wheelhouse and BPV draw huge crowds of young people every weekend. I heard there were hundreds of people at wheelhouse on Saturday night. They honestly think that Clayton is still the hot spot to go out for these people. Clearly, being old and out of it, they have no idea that it's still downtown, and also the Grove where young people go now. Clayton is for people over 40 to have a "night out on the town".
Sadly, many are afraid to come downtown to places like Al's, Tony's, blood and sand, death in the afternoon, the bridge, etc. so, yes, crime still does need to be addressed, but it's no worse than it was years ago.
downtown will continue to get better and better with more residential conversions. Occupancy is high and is staying strong. These idiots in far flung suburban areas want to feel vindicated by trashing the city any chance they get. The media also plays up the "city is faltering" storyline because they know it sells to these idiots. J bucks closed in Clayton as did Pomme, pomme cafe, etc.
Oh, and I'm sure the $15 minimum wage announcement last year didn't help either. I'd love to hear more on that...
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I don't think that is the case nor fair. There are plenty of other establishments doing well...(Oyster Bar being the most glaring example). Again, it comes back to the fact that places like Harry's and the Dubliner didn't offer a unique experience for their price point. Let's not forget the location of Harry's either, it's about as out of the way as it can be in downtown.urban_dilettante wrote:I never said otherwise, but suburbanites around here can't seem to fathom that something other than crime might be responsible. That St. Louisan's (and I use the term loosely) find the experience at a papier mache corporate theme park to be better than that at any number of organicly-grown downtown bars/restaurants says as much about St. Louisans as it does about those businesses, though.NickOnDelor wrote:^ "To blame"...it's competition...
BPV is new and quite unique to almost anything else in town. Some of that will wear off, but if it is anything like the P&L in KC it'll still be a major draw to the area.
I've eaten at BPV a few times for business meetings or before a game. I think serving food is something that has to be done at a place like that. I don't think the food is what you are going to that place for though unless you just want the whole game day experience of being there.jcity wrote:Do people really actually eat the food at BPV? I did once when it opened but haven't been back
Restaurants like mike Shannon's, J Bucks, and Harry's are all far past their prime. 1990's relics that weren't drawing new 20-somethings in.
It's funny to read older peoples comments on stltoday. They clearly have NO idea that Wheelhouse and BPV draw huge crowds of young people every weekend. I heard there were hundreds of people at wheelhouse on Saturday night. They honestly think that Clayton is still the hot spot to go out for these people. Clearly, being old and out of it, they have no idea that it's still downtown, and also the Grove where young people go now. Clayton is for people over 40 to have a "night out on the town".
Sadly, many are afraid to come downtown to places like Al's, Tony's, blood and sand, death in the afternoon, the bridge, etc. so, yes, crime still does need to be addressed, but it's no worse than it was years ago.
downtown will continue to get better and better with more residential conversions. Occupancy is high and is staying strong. These idiots in far flung suburban areas want to feel vindicated by trashing the city any chance they get. The media also plays up the "city is faltering" storyline because they know it sells to these idiots. J bucks closed in Clayton as did Pomme, pomme cafe, etc.
And I think you are pretty spot on with your entire post. I'm not in the partying demographic anymore, but it wasn't that long ago...and my younger brother talks about Wheelhouse, BPV, The Grove, and Soulard a lot. Another area of growing popularity seems to be Cherokee Street.
I know quite a few people who go downtown to BPV all the time now and who otherwise wouldn't go downtown nearly as much. Personally, I think BPV is awesome. I like supporting local businesses, but I'm not too cool to go to the "papier mache corporate theme park". Nick's right, it's a better experience. Cardinals Nation, Budweiser Brewhouse, the whole FSN thing - awesome! You can't find those things in Collinsville or Chesterfield. That hole in the wall bar that you love? Yeah, sorry, but every town has those.
I used to party on the Landing when I was home, and it was cool. One time I went bar hopping on Wash Ave. and it was also cool and it was fun to spend a night out in the city as someone who appreciates that sort of thing. But honestly, as for the actual bar hopping experience, was it drastically different than bar hopping in Edwardsville or Alton? Not really. The bars are pretty much the same.
I used to party on the Landing when I was home, and it was cool. One time I went bar hopping on Wash Ave. and it was also cool and it was fun to spend a night out in the city as someone who appreciates that sort of thing. But honestly, as for the actual bar hopping experience, was it drastically different than bar hopping in Edwardsville or Alton? Not really. The bars are pretty much the same.
To each their own, but I had way more fun on Wash Ave in it's heyday (which was not that long ago) than I have ever had at BPV. I agree with a lot of posters on here that BPV seems like an adult food court. I thought BPV could have been good for the city when it was supposed to bring in retail and businesses. Now, I just look at it as a wasted opportunity. It has a great location and the area is mainly parking.shimmy wrote:I know quite a few people who go downtown to BPV all the time now and who otherwise wouldn't go downtown nearly as much. Personally, I think BPV is awesome. I like supporting local businesses, but I'm not too cool to go to the "papier mache corporate theme park". Nick's right, it's a better experience. Cardinals Nation, Budweiser Brewhouse, the whole FSN thing - awesome! You can't find those things in Collinsville or Chesterfield. That hole in the wall bar that you love? Yeah, sorry, but every town has those.
I used to party on the Landing when I was home, and it was cool. One time I went bar hopping on Wash Ave. and it was also cool and it was fun to spend a night out in the city as someone who appreciates that sort of thing. But honestly, as for the actual bar hopping experience, was it drastically different than bar hopping in Edwardsville or Alton? Not really. The bars are pretty much the same.
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Porano opening is set for next Tuesday (the 26th)
Looks good!
Inside Porano Pasta, Gerard Craft's Italian Fast-Casual Debut
by Hillary Dixler , photos by Greg Rannells Jan 19, 2016
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Source, Photos Credit
Inside Porano Pasta, Gerard Craft's Italian Fast-Casual Debut
by Hillary Dixler , photos by Greg Rannells Jan 19, 2016
Source, Photos Credit
Looks awesome. Can't wait. So many new restaurants downtown overall over the last two years.
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George Mahe has a good overview of the changing restaurant scene downtown and whether there is a BPV impact:
http://www.stlmag.com/dining/ask-george ... -st-louis/
But he also had some tidbits in there including Bailey's bbq joint on Olive should open this year and the people behind Wheelhouse have recently inked a lease for a new concept downtown.... I wonder if this is the mystery place coming to Locust and 11th. Carmine's is also about to embark on a big upgrade.
(Also, Taze has been teasing that something exciting is coming to downtown and will be announced soon.)
http://www.stlmag.com/dining/ask-george ... -st-louis/
But he also had some tidbits in there including Bailey's bbq joint on Olive should open this year and the people behind Wheelhouse have recently inked a lease for a new concept downtown.... I wonder if this is the mystery place coming to Locust and 11th. Carmine's is also about to embark on a big upgrade.
(Also, Taze has been teasing that something exciting is coming to downtown and will be announced soon.)
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Yeah. I am really intrigued over the Wheelhouse and Taze plans.
Interest in the Mike Shannons property has been strong so far. Surprisingly, more interest from developers than end-users (which I thought would be the buyer).
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^ cool. so that still leaves the mystery of what's going on over on Locust.
As for Mike Shannon's, do you know if they were ever successful in leasing up the second floor office space(s)?
As for Taze, I'm not sure it was even culinary news, just that some exciting news for downtown would be announced soon.
As for Mike Shannon's, do you know if they were ever successful in leasing up the second floor office space(s)?
As for Taze, I'm not sure it was even culinary news, just that some exciting news for downtown would be announced soon.
kbshapiro wrote:Don't know what Taze is talking about but the Wheelhouse signed a lease to take the rest of Cupples 8 first floor (next to Wheelhouse). I'll let them announce their concept but it's certainly unique to St Louis as a whole and should be a cool addition to STLCBD.
Interest in the Mike Shannons property has been strong so far. Surprisingly, more interest from developers than end-users (which I thought would be the buyer).
Do you know when we should expect an announcement?
I'll hop on the intrigue train as well. Where was Taze teasing this info?roger wyoming II wrote:^ cool. so that still leaves the mystery of what's going on over on Locust.
As for Mike Shannon's, do you know if they were ever successful in leasing up the second floor office space(s)?
As for Taze, I'm not sure it was even culinary news, just that some exciting news for downtown would be announced soon.