urbanSTL

It is a great place so I hope people go.

Yea, metro and the city cannot quite keep the corner comfortable and clean, despite it looking better than it did before. The reality is there are some people that wait at the stop and go to Ocean Grill do not care about throwing trash on the ground and engaging in anti-social behavior. The Ocean Grill owners have not cleaned up their storefront and don’t clean up the mess made by many customers on the sidewalk.

Idk what the answer is to Debaliviere stretch. It seems like it should have popped off with development long ago sandwiched between WashU, loop, CWE, Forest Park, metrolink. The trolley not being what it should have been hurt a little bit but this should be a cohesive stretch of properties. Expo and Hudson anchor that corner but retail has never filled in. And the rest of Debaliviere and Delmar until the loop is pretty sparse. Pretty mind boggling considering there was a decent amount of retail before 600 new residents being added in the immediate vicinity.

Improving the Forest Park and Debaliviere intersection for pedestrians should be a priority. And there’s really not much actual crime but the bus/metrolink stop gives a perception of low safety and the delmar stretch to the north still has the “divide” feel.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2024

I think Park Place is a little freaked out about being right next to that bus stop, it’s often a pretty rough crowd hanging around there.


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They knew very well coming into it so no excuses there, unfortunately. They took their precautions by building a patio and posting signs.

Just curious: whose responsibility is it to replace the windows - is it the landlord's or tenant's?

stlurbanist wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2024

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2024

I think Park Place is a little freaked out about being right next to that bus stop, it’s often a pretty rough crowd hanging around there.


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They knew very well coming into it so no excuses there, unfortunately. They took their precautions by building a patio and posting signs.

Just curious: whose responsibility is it to replace the windows - is it the landlord's or tenant's?

It’s a negotiation point in the lease.  But more than likely the Tenant is responsible as it’s non-structural and leases are drafted by Landlords and typically local tenants don’t push back too much lease terms — unless they have a good broker and lawyer…and/or have leverage.    

With that said, the tenant may file an insurance claim depending on deductible amount.

Regardless, if the landlord fixes the windows, they could just throw it in as a CAM expense and get their money back from the Tenant that way.

By Diana Barr – Associate Editor, St. Louis Business Journal
Oct 30, 2024

A quick-service burger chain known for its cheeseburger sliders and unusual construction process will start the buildout this week for its first store in the St. Louis area and Missouri.
Each Smalls Sliders store is developed using a prefabricated 750-square-foot modular building, or “Can,” as the company calls it.

The local franchisee of Atlanta-based Smalls Sliders will do a ceremonial "Can drop" Thursday at 9 a.m. at the store's site, 12433 St. Charles Rock Road in Bridgeton. The Can drop is the equivalent of a groundbreaking, a spokesperson said.




Known for its cheeseburger sliders, Smalls Sliders also offers fries, dipping sauces and milkshakes.
Smalls Sliders
The Bridgeton restaurant's opening date later this year, hasn't been set, according to the spokesperson. The opening is targeted for December, according to a Design and Review Board report at an August meeting of the Bridgeton City Council.
The property is owned by Dart Associates of Bridgeton LLC, whose registered agent Gary Wesolowski, CEO of Clayton-based real estate company Land Dynamics, according to county and state records.
The Can – orange-colored, or "Smorange" as the company calls it – is shipped to the restaurant's site via 18-wheeler and placed on its foundation by crane in a process that takes about a day to complete. A shipping container is then placed on top of the Can to complete the location's storefront.
Each store features double drive-thru lanes, a walk-up window and an outdoor patio seating about 30.


The Smalls "Can" is shipped to the restaurant's site via 18-wheeler and placed on its foundation by crane. A shipping container is then placed on top of the Can to complete the location's storefront.
Smalls Sliders

The new store is one of eight that local operations group KR Partners LLC signed on to open in the St. Louis area within the next five years, Smalls Sliders' chief development officer, Richard Leveille, told the Business Journal in January this year. Leveille said at the time that he expects the average St. Louis-area store to generate “well over $2 million” in annual revenue. An average Smalls store employs between 35 and 50 workers, in a mix of part-time and full-time employees, according to Leveille.
“Our attention-grabbing Smorange Can is not only going to stand out visually as a pillar of our community but become part of our daily routines – from celebrating our local friends and neighbors to sponsoring local events and more," Beaux Hebert, a principal in local franchisee KR Partners, said recently in a press release.
Hebert and KR Partners' principals Mike Rogers and Ethan Koutroubis are expected to attend Thursday's event. The company also plans to salute Joni Norris, Bridgeton City Council member, for her volunteer work with the Kiwanis Club.
Officials also previously said that Smalls Sliders, which opened its first location in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in 2019, expects to open as many as 25 stores in the St. Louis region over the next 10 years.
The timeline for KR Partners' next St. Louis-area location hasn't yet been determined, and the company is scouting locations including Kirkwood, Clayton, Wentzville, St. Peters, Ellisville and Florissant, a spokesperson said. The franchisee also is working on a separate agreement for Missouri locations targeting Joplin/Springfield and Cape Girardeau, as part of a separate agreement for six locations split between Missouri and Arkansas, according to the spokesperson.

In addition to cooked-to-order cheeseburger sliders, Smalls also offers fries, dipping sauces — including its signature sauce, known as “Smauce,” and queso — and milkshakes.
Smalls Sliders charges a $30,000 franchising fee for each location, and the total investment to open a store is between $1.5 million and $1.8 million, according to Leveille. Franchisees also pay a 6% royalty fee, with between 3% and 5% of a store’s total revenue going toward marketing.
Smalls, with about 165 locations currently open or under development, was founded by Brandon Landry of BranLand Hospitality and is backed by retired National Football League quarterback Drew Brees and Atlanta-based private equity firm 10 Point Capital.

jeff707 wrote: ↑

Nov 01, 2024

Trying to think of where that could fit in clayton?  Along Brentwood by 170 where they tore that gov't building down? Somewhere near the Forsyth Metro stop? Along Clayton Rd?

I think there is little chance Clayton would approve this in their city limits. Maybe u city.

Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

stlurbanist wrote:Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

I think it’s kind of pointless to bring up something so anecdotal. Someone will inevitably respond that they recently walked down the street and saw tons of people milling about. Neither are a super helpful data point, right?


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stlurbanist wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

I waited 35 minutes at lunch at cobblestone today for a sandwich because it was full

And burger 809 is doing great 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

stlurbanist wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

I waited 35 minutes at lunch at cobblestone today for a sandwich because it was full

And burger 809 is doing great plus they have zero facility cost, as the gateway foundation leases the space for free

Good to hear about Cobblestone. I think that’s such an awesome space and great amenity for downtown residents.

Speaking of stimulating the downtown rise:
https://www.firstalert4.com/2024/11/21/ ... utType=amp

Some positive tilted news reporting

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

stlurbanist wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

I waited 35 minutes at lunch at cobblestone today for a sandwich because it was full

And burger 809 is doing great plus they have zero facility cost, as the gateway foundation leases the space for free

awesome! i did not know that gateway foundation was leasing the space for free. that is incredible!

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

stlurbanist wrote: ↑

Nov 21, 2024

Burger 809: 

saw only two people at lunch time yesterday. we need foot traffic desperately. 

we cannot let these small businesses down.

I waited 35 minutes at lunch at cobblestone today for a sandwich because it was full

And burger 809 is doing great plus they have zero facility cost, as the gateway foundation leases the space for free

Good to hear about Cobblestone. I think that’s such an awesome space and great amenity for downtown residents.

Speaking of stimulating the downtown rise:
https://www.firstalert4.com/2024/11/21/ ... utType=amp

Some positive tilted news reporting

I can’t say anything but Oliver Properies has some pretty good plans that will come out soon.  Watch out for the former Reign space. Making that parking lot behind Wash Ave between tucker and 11th more presentable will be a huge help too

DB — can you share the data on the first half 2019 vs first half 2024 restaurant sales for Clayton and Downtown?

kbshapiro wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2024

DB — can you share the data on the first half 2019 vs first half 2024 restaurant sales for Clayton and Downtown?

Cannot by downtown, right now the state dept of revenue only can do industry codes like restaurants by city or county. I’m trying to get them down to zipcode level too since they have the info but they haven’t been receptive yet. I think I can figure it out with some assumptions for downtown alone but it would have a large MoE. Got a few restaurants that will give me their 2019 and current sales data

dweebe wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2024

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2024

From my LinkedIn post 


Two Neighbors, Two Different Recoveries: St. Louis City vs. Clayton Restaurants

St. Louis City and Clayton, MO, might be next-door neighbors, but their restaurant scenes are telling two completely different post-COVID recovery stories.
In Clayton, restaurant sales for the first half of 2024 are up 6.39% compared to 2019. On paper, that doesn’t look bad, but when you factor in inflation—specifically for “food away from home”—sales are actually down by 18%. The reason is pretty straightforward: Clayton is mostly a place where people go to work, not where they go to have fun. With so many people still working from home, the lunch and after-work crowds that used to fuel its restaurants just aren’t there like they used to be.
Meanwhile, St. Louis City’s restaurant scene is completely recovered and than some. Sales are up a 27.2% compared to 2019, and even after adjusting for inflation, they’re still up by 3%. Why? It’s not just a work destination. St. Louis has plenty of entertainment, nightlife, and tourism to draw people in. From ballgames and concerts to bars and restaurants, people have lots of reasons to visit the city and spend money at its restaurants—reasons that have nothing to do with commuting to an office.

The takeaway is pretty clear: Clayton’s heavy reliance on office workers has made its recovery slower, while St. Louis City’s mix of fun, food, and events has helped it bounce back stronger. It’s a reminder of how important it is for places to have more than one reason for people to visit—especially in a world where working from home isn’t going away anytime soon.

There was a time when the various bars and restaurants in Clayton used to be crazy hopping. Now it's just sad to see what it's like.  But the new rooftop bar the the AC Marriott will be interesting. Hopefully it will survive.

• https://www.highbarclayton.com/?fbclid= ... LMqVuc3Zeg
• https://www.facebook.com/highbarclayton/

With the new golf simulator bar and probably to a lesser extent darts bar going in, I will be curious how that changes things for a later crowd, even if it is a small change. Clayton doesn’t seem like it really wants to be very busy nightlife wise, which is fine, so I’ll be curious if more places like that pop or what happens. Also to see what places go into the bottom of the new building on N central.

Is it fine for Clayton? It’s pretending to be a central business district but there’s nothing for businessmen to do after 5pm other than eat at bad chain steakhouses or Italian restaurants that were “fine” dining 40 years ago.

A hallmark of a successful CBD is being a place that attracts talent, especially young talent. Clayton does not do that.

I think it’s totally fine for Clayton. There’s a lot of “businessmen” who don’t want to do anything after 5pm within the neighborhood they work.


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Their out of town business partner visitors absolutely desire something to do after 5pm.

That’s not necessarily true. And when out of town business partners do want to eat after work, they often do chose bland corporate steakhouses anyway. I just don’t understand the desire or criticism of wanting to make Clayton an entertainment district.


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It was a f*cking entertainment district! It’s been sterilised over the last 20ish years

Take a deep breath. Relax.

I think Clayton has for sometime and should remain an uptown business district for the significant portion of the corporate community that want a clean, sterile, business district to work in so they can retreat easily to the suburbs after work.

I’m fine with adding entertainment options to Clayton, but those efforts should be focused Downtown to me.


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