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PostDec 19, 2008#101

innov8ion wrote:St. Louis is reducing light rail service and Seattle is investing over $1 billion to expand.


Actually, they dont have a rail service yet. They are planning to open their light rail from the airport to downtown Seattle early 2009. As of now, you need to take a taxi everywhere. Plus the lightrail wont even go to Bellevue where is where half of the Seattle companies are located.

St. Louis 1. Seattle 0

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PostDec 19, 2008#102

zink wrote:
innov8ion wrote:St. Louis is reducing light rail service and Seattle is investing over $1 billion to expand.


Actually, they dont have a rail service yet. They are planning to open their light rail from the airport to downtown Seattle early 2009. As of now, you need to take a taxi everywhere. Plus the lightrail wont even go to Bellevue where is where half of the Seattle companies are located.

St. Louis 1. Seattle 0


I smell a bitter Boeing employee!

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PostDec 19, 2008#103

my favorite comment...



Good! This is one of the best things that could happen to St. Louis County! All I see at the metro stops is shopping carts and trash! These bus stops are the reason NW Plaza has turned into an empty shell and why decent citizens can't shop at the Mills Mall after dark without feeling insecure. The metro link is the reason why the Galleria has turned into a gathering ground for thugs. We don't have any metro stops in St. Charles County and I want to keep it that way! Go ahead and raise the gas prices to $5 per gallon... I still will never step foot on a metro bus!"

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PostDec 19, 2008#104

^^did you know that you are being accused of living in st charles now?

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PostDec 19, 2008#105

ha I saw that

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PostDec 19, 2008#106

zink wrote:
innov8ion wrote:St. Louis is reducing light rail service and Seattle is investing over $1 billion to expand.


Actually, they dont have a rail service yet. They are planning to open their light rail from the airport to downtown Seattle early 2009. As of now, you need to take a taxi everywhere. Plus the lightrail wont even go to Bellevue where is where half of the Seattle companies are located.

St. Louis 1. Seattle 0




Perhaps he meant that Seattle is expanding from bus only to rail as an additional option? Because they do have buses. I researched the hell out of the place when I was prepping for my ill-fated StL-to-Seattle road trip in August.

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PostDec 19, 2008#107

ttricamo wrote:
zink wrote:
innov8ion wrote:St. Louis is reducing light rail service and Seattle is investing over $1 billion to expand.


Actually, they dont have a rail service yet. They are planning to open their light rail from the airport to downtown Seattle early 2009. As of now, you need to take a taxi everywhere. Plus the lightrail wont even go to Bellevue where is where half of the Seattle companies are located.

St. Louis 1. Seattle 0


I smell a bitter Boeing employee!
Not in the case of Zink...

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PostDec 20, 2008#108

There was a handout given out at the meeting last week detailing service "plan D," which appears to be the one adopted. Here's a PDF.




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PostDec 22, 2008#109

Uuuugh. My bus to work has been eliminated -- split into two routes, rather. Sigh.

PostDec 22, 2008#110

Oh no! My bus to work has been elimited! Er... split into two, rather. But still. Sigh. :(



I can't imagine what all the Forest Park-goers will do in the summer. That shuttle is usually full. Our representation for next year's All Star Game keeps getting better and better, doesn't it? :(

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PostDec 22, 2008#111

Seattle already has commuter rail and its first light rail line will open next year, with an extension already federally approved. Last month, Seattle voters passed funding for an aggressive system plan, joining the likes of Denver and Dallas, if not seeking to lead the transit-space-race, since their plan includes streetcar in addition to light rail, commuter rail and bus rapid transit. Meanwhile, thanks to its voters, St. Louis is now more like Buffalo, having light rail for decades, but still no realistic hopes for system expansion.



PS- Phoenix opens its light rail next week, still leaving Detroit as the largest metro without a rail transit system.

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PostDec 29, 2008#112

Well what is considered Metro? And what is considered a rail transit system? IMO a rail that bring you from the airport to downtown with multiple destinations.



Cities bigger than Detroit with out metro (To my knowledge as of today)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... population



-LA (really, for their size they dont count as having one)

-Houston

-San Antonio

-San Diego

-Dallas

Then finally Detroit.



Then add other cities that lack rail transport are Seattle (Soon to have a one liner from airport to downtown.

-Denver ( well at least it has a downtown lightrail)

-Miami

-Milwaukee

- Minneapolis

-Indy



I mean look at that, St. Louis at least has one!.. and it goes to BOTH downtowns (Clayton and DT)



It sucks traveling all the time and renting a car and sitting in traffic. That is why I love going to Chicago, Boston, NYC, and coming home to STL and taking the metro home.

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PostDec 29, 2008#113

Zink,



Some of the cities that you mention have that don't have lightrail/commuter rail. Unless I misunderstood your post.



Denver - has a large build out planned and financing in place for multiplie transit rail lines.



Minneapolis/St. Paul - Light rail from MSP to downtown, Northstar commuter rail service and another light rail line from downtown St. Paul to Minneapolis will start construction in the near future. The region also has two to three commuter lines in planning, at least one more light rail, and is working on an inter city service with Duluth.



Miami - Commuter rail service heading north (Tri-county), A multimodal transportation to be under construction to connect the airport with rail, as well as existing fixed rail service within the city (can't recall the name).



Milaukee - The region is working aggressively to extend and add commuter service with Chicago on top of existing inter city service. Amtrak also has a new station that provides dedicated shuttle service with the airport.



I would say that other regions, including Dallas and Houston, are building out transit systms. I would also say that St. Louis is limited in what we need. But, We are definitely falling behind. I think Metro will get minimal in any stimulus package until we put together a strong financing mechanism for operations.

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PostDec 29, 2008#114

^I meant metro as in metropolitan area, not heavy rail. San Antonio is actually the largest city without any rail transit, but Detroit is the largest metropolitan area.



But the larger point is how much St. Louis is like Buffalo, which no one seemed to contest. Both have had light rail for years, starting ahead of others, but both are rustbelt regions with little hope for system expansion.

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PostDec 29, 2008#115

Moorlander wrote:my favorite comment...



Good! This is one of the best things that could happen to St. Louis County! All I see at the metro stops is shopping carts and trash! These bus stops are the reason NW Plaza has turned into an empty shell and why decent citizens can't shop at the Mills Mall after dark without feeling insecure. The metro link is the reason why the Galleria has turned into a gathering ground for thugs. We don't have any metro stops in St. Charles County and I want to keep it that way! Go ahead and raise the gas prices to $5 per gallon... I still will never step foot on a metro bus!"
that comment just makes me want to wither away. Or punch something.

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PostDec 30, 2008#116

^ Funny, I've shopped at the following "ghetto" places and have never been shot, stabbed, robbed, or raped;



The Galleria

The Mills

The Maplewood Wal Mart (as little as possible, but some things I just have to save the $10 on)

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PostDec 30, 2008#117

Where is St. Charles County? ... and what is there? :shock:



As far as I am concerned there is no "life" beyond I-170 (except maybe Frontenac Plaza)

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PostJan 02, 2009#118

St. Louis is not part of the rust belt imo. The St. Louis economy is too diverse to be considered in the likes of Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Buffalo.



who cares about a line to St. Charles. lets build up lines in the city, people will follow.

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PostJan 02, 2009#119

Not the Rust Belt? Carondelet Coke, Hydraulic Press Brick, Army Ammunitions, Granite City Steel, National Stock Yards, Lemp Brewery, Brown Shoe, GM/Corvette Plant, Ford Plant...



Believe, give me the Old Urbanism of the streetcar-built Rust Belt over the faux New Urbanism sprinkled across auto-oriented sprawling Sun Belt cities anyday. But the urban core St. Louis is definitely part of the Rust Belt.



What's odd, I'll grant you, is how removed from the heart of the Belt, or "The Foundry," St. Louis is. Here's a map of the "nine nations of America." Notice too that St. Louis is where "The Bread Basket" and "Dixie" also meet. No wonder St. Charles feels like one nation (Bread Basket), Jefferson County another (Dixie), and St. Louis City so isolated (an island outpost of The Foundry).

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PostJan 02, 2009#120

^ That map is really interesting and certainly speaks volumes about an inherent diversity in our metro area.

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PostJan 02, 2009#121

southslider wrote:^I meant metro as in metropolitan area, not heavy rail. San Antonio is actually the largest city without any rail transit, but Detroit is the largest metropolitan area.



But the larger point is how much St. Louis is like Buffalo, which no one seemed to contest. Both have had light rail for years, starting ahead of others, but both are rustbelt regions with little hope for system expansion.


Eh, I was in Buffalo last year, and St. Louis is NOTHING like Buffalo. That light rail line seemed to only run a few blocks, and we have much greater hope for a lot of things than there. We have our problems, but Buffalo?

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PostJan 02, 2009#122

Busdad, this might be question for you. I believe St. Louis county is proposing to put the building bond back on the ballot this spring (I think their is various local elections this spring). Is Metro trying to convince the county of something similiar? I think they could craft something tied into a stimulus plan. Smaller tax hikes (1/8 only) with a condition that they only come into effect if Feds provide funds in the stimulus package for construction. The county can even recraft their stimulus request - Light rail expansion inside and Hwy 141 outside of I-270.

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PostJan 02, 2009#123

Southslider,



I love looking at how people divide up the US into regions. The one you linked to is similar to most that I have seen. Most regional maps seem to have the same boundaries, mainly, only different names.



St. Louis definately has had influence and ties with different regions of the country. It has ties to three major regions: the heartland (bread-basket), the south (dixie), and the Rust Belt (foundry). Certain problems that have hit many rust belt cities hard have not affected St. Louis as bad, and the region has adapted for the most part.



One day St. louis is going to have to get very serious about expanding metrolink in the city. I know that there have been a lot of proposals and master plans thrown around, but it has been 15 years since metrolink opened, and there are only two lines.



I am not too involved in St. Louis Metro news anymore since I haven't lived there for three and a half years, so I don't know all of the issues.



St. Louis needs to build out a metro rail system that will serve people in there everyday lives. The cross-county line has been a good step, but there is still a large chunk of the city that isn't served. I don't expect St. Louis to ever build a European-esque system, but in thinking about where St. Louis will be in 20-years, if there isn't at least a good North-South line through downtown and at least another cross town spur, it will be very sad.



I now live in San Antonio, and are situation down here is rediculous. There is such a decentralized work force that building commuter rail is not worth it. At the same time the population and retail in the central city is not very dense or concentrated making a light rail "system" not very feasible.



St. Louis has the capability of having excellent mass transit that serves its population, but how or will it ever happen.

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PostJan 02, 2009#124

STLtoSA wrote:I love looking at how people divide up the US into regions. The one you linked to is similar to most that I have seen. Most regional maps seem to have the same boundaries, mainly, only different names.
Then this might interest you. I think it's pretty amusing, but who knows.:




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PostJan 04, 2009#125

Busdad, this might be question for you. I believe St. Louis county is proposing to put the building bond back on the ballot this spring (I think their is various local elections this spring). Is Metro trying to convince the county of something similiar? I think they could craft something tied into a stimulus plan. Smaller tax hikes (1/8 only) with a condition that they only come into effect if Feds provide funds in the stimulus package for construction. The county can even recraft their stimulus request - Light rail expansion inside and Hwy 141 outside of I-270


First, Metro isn't permitted to bring back any referendum for one year. The likely next vote would be spring 2010.



Second, the minimum funding worth attempting is 1/4 cent which would allow Metro to restore most of the service we cut effective March 30, 2009.



Third, there is some chance that that the City may put a 1/4 cent tax on the ballot in April. However, from my personal perspective, I would prefer that they do not if there is any chance of a transit district concept.



Fourth, an interesting concept is to implement a transit district. One approach is to reduce the size of the district impacted by the tax to include the City and something less than the full county. There are problems with this approach in terms of dealing with the existing taxes. Any transit district concept with require some State Legislation. A transit district adds a layer of bureaucracy, but could perhaps be designed to insure accountability. You could either have an elected board (for the District) or have an appointed board comprised of elected officials appointed by the City and the County from the Board of Aldermen and County Council.



The District would be permitted to operate service only through a contract, either private or a contract with Metro. The County could then be another accountability feature.



NO additional Metrolink can be build with an additional 1/4 cent sales tax. The City is probably not interested in another 1/2 cent. They provide a 3/4 cent tax now (1/4 prop M and 1/2 Transportation Sales tax). If the the 1/4 cent tax is ultimately enacted in the City, the city transit tax will be 1 % which is pretty much considering their other tax rates.



In my opinion, more Metrolink is not likely to happen until after 2035 when the Cross County Bonds are paid off. The only thing that could change that would if the State of Missouri agrees to get into funding funding public transit substantially. I would think that is going to be pretty tough to accomplish with the current State Legislature, the Hancock Amendment and Gas tax limitations. While anything to change, who have you heard from the local or State wide leadership that is pushing urban or even suburban issues.



Metro (as well as the State of MO, St. Louis County and the City of St. Louis) included $50 million in the stimulus solicitation. However, Congressman Costello has indicated that the chance of that happening is very very remote.



Finally, if the next referendum is to have more Metrolink, it must be 1/2 cent tax and we must keep the cost of the project so at least 50% of the proceeds of the tax can be retained for operations. You could perhaps do as you suggest, implement a 1/4 cent tax, and a 1/8 tax that is contingent upon obtaining Federal and State Funding to build a new alignment.



Metro must also develop a formal "long range" plan that defines the eventual bus and rail strategy. This strategy must be consistent with East-West Gateway's long range plan. Instead of just studying these alignment, they should adopt North Side-South Side, an extension west and push Cross County South to connect with the south end of the Northside-Southside.



These may not all be federally fundable, but they should pursued far enough to have a good cost and well defined alignment. (It's possible that a commuter rail option could be used to feed into Cross County from the west. Denton County is planning a commuter rail feeder into the new Green Line under construction.)



Metro should also make some investments in the County for Transit Center and high quality bus service.



Now, what I am suggesting is way too expensive and finding a source of revenue even to save what we have already done seems an impossibility. We really need $350 million annual in revenue with annual inflationary growth to run a decent transit system.



We will soon have $180 million budget. This year the budget is $221 million. I have a very hard time being optimistic.

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