innov8ion wrote:^ I heard from one lady on the radio that stated she won't have to work anymore because Obama would fill her gas tank and pay her mortgage. Under this brave new leadership, we will live the American dream! No doubt he will give us federal funding for Metro transit...too bad Metro will lose most of it in a lawsuit and we'll be back where we started from.
I'm quite sure this was in reference to a YouTube video that's been making the rounds for a few days. She says nothing close to that; it's more along the lines of she'll have to "worry less".
I give you credit, though, for adding the "...won't have to work anymore..." to the front of it. Until now that hasn't even been on the blogs.
^If it is just the metro area, voters in each county would have to approve it, and that obviously isn't going to happen.
And we already have a state gasoline tax. How much of that does Metro get?
Besides, gasoline taxes are rather regressive, and its unlikely that any of the populists that will soon be in charge are going to support a regressive tax increase.
Well yes, a local gasoline tax would seem to make sense, but MODoT controls that at this point. Saint Louis (City or County) or any of the other Missouri side governments can't levy their own local gas tax, as I understand it.
The question is, how do we go about changing this? Who do we call on as voters to change Missouri's methods of funding things like this, to something more like Illinois, where local governments can levy their own gas, tobacco, and anything else taxes?
Wow. This is depressing and a major step backward for the region. A few thoughts on this glum morning:
1. For the voting public, I think this is largely about how much Metro blows. Whether that perception is based in reality is another question. The info presented by Busdad and available on the Metro website indicates that the organization worked hard to get most "bang for the buck" in local transit service. That said, it clearly screwed up on the Cross-County. On the whole, I think Metro does a pretty damn good job. Voting against the tax increase doesn't "teach Metro a lesson" to better manage its money any more than not paying property taxes teaches local government a lesson. It's all just shooting yourself in the foot!
2. While it is tempting to look at the dramatic fall in gas prices as a factor in the final outcome, I think the drop is a symptom of the real issue that sunk the vote: the tanking economy. For some who would have supported the measure, I think it came down to: My wallet is hurting so I am not voting for a tax increase.
3. For those looking to the State as a potential solution for the problem, you are misguided. How can anyone expect the State to support a public transit system the region won't even choose to support. The best hope for State funding lay with the notion that St. Louisians (and since last years vote, Kansas Citians) put their money whether their mouth was an supported their local system. With the County voting down the measure, I see no compelling reason for State Legislators to support a system that not even St. Louis will support.
4. What hope is there that in the next year as the cuts are put into place and maybe the economy improves, that County politicians try for another vote on the matter? I guess it depends how much outcry there will be when the system is cut back.
5. The only faint glimmer of hope is more funding from the feds given the outcome yesterday.
6. I wonder when the district by district information will be available. It will be interesting to see what areas of the County voted for an against the measure. A word of advice to Busdad, the vindictive side of me says that Metro should wait to see what areas voted for and against the measure. If you voted against it, then kill all lines in that area!
7. The vote was much closer than in 1997. This is progress and clearly the demographic changes in the County and impacting the voting outcomes. I wonder when the tipping point occurs where the measure could pass.
8. What chance is there that the law could be altered to allow the City to collect its portion of funding separately from the County?
I have to think that part of the defeat can be attributed to the fact that Metro seemed to do very little to tout the benefits of this proposition. I'm guessing that was because they are financially strapped.
goat314 wrote:This is a big disappointment St. Louis once again has decided to be a second rate city. Metrolink will be a joke. Hopefully Obama helps us with some transportation funding.
Use your head.
St. Louis County is perfectly happy with St. Louis being a second rate city. Don't blame "St. Louis," blame over 100,000 stupid county residents.
Have there been studies about the affects Metrolink has on crime?
I keep being told that The Gallery has pretty much turned in to a war zone, and maybe the clientelle have changed, but I have been there several times and only live a couple of miles to it and have never had a single issue there.
It's that simple. The confidence of most people for metro to deliver anything quality with their money was taken once the disaster that was the CCX and subsequent lawsuit become public knowledge. Add to that the bad economy and a tax on everyday things people need, and this was destined to fail.
And oh yeah, the fact that there's new hybrid cars, electric cars soon available, and an ahead of schedule 40 rebuild all weighs into people's minds.
JuiceInDogtown wrote:Have there been studies about the affects Metrolink has on crime?
I keep being told that The Gallery has pretty much turned in to a war zone, and maybe the clientelle have changed, but I have been there several times and only live a couple of miles to it and have never had a single issue there.
We hear about incidents at the Delmar, Grand, and Forest Park Metrolink stations.
However, I don't think Metrolink is the main contributor on the change in clientelle there, but it has helped add to it. I notice everytime I goto the Galleria a lot of them have their own cars and drive there.
How does the City fare in regards to getting a metro tax on future measures? Does the city have the tax base to create the funds to move foward on a city only line in the future. Just because this failed in STL County I don't see the system as being doomed. It is time for the city to put together a tax proposal to get either the north or south line funded. Do you think it's possible? I have faith in the city voters that I think we could get it done on our own in the future.
Does the city have the tax base to create the funds to move foward on a city only line in the future.
No.
Even with say a 1/2-3/4 cent proposal in the future? How does one go about getting a measure on the next ballot? Everyone I talk to in the city seems that expansion of metrolink is a must. I think the county line to Westport would have been underutilized anyway, north of south line are the most viable options for success IMO.
I'd LOVE to see a new line in the city. think streetcar down Grand, Jefferson and Kingshighway N/S and lines down the OLD suburban line on the north side and one down Gravois on the south.
The city does NOT need a sales tax hike! The STATE should pay more than 1% for METRO. California pays 25% of BART in San Fran.
County City Sales tax rate
City of St. Louis St. Louis 9.241%
Franklin Union 8.725%
Jefferson Hillsboro 7.225%
Lincoln Troy 8.975%
St. Charles St. Charles 8.40%
St. Louis Clayton 7.325%
Warren Warrenton 7.975%
Washington Potosi 8.225%
I wonder if this contributes to a lack of retail in the city. probably not, but i'm sure it can't help.
Before you start talking about a City-only sales tax increase, remember that the City already has the highest sales tax in the region. If it goes much higher, shoppers will start avoiding the City altogether.
I'd LOVE to see a new line in the city. think streetcar down Grand, Jefferson and Kingshighway N/S and lines down the OLD suburban line on the north side and one down Gravois on the south.
The city does NOT need a sales tax hike! The STATE should pay more than 1% for METRO. California pays 25% of BART in San Fran.
County City Sales tax rate
City of St. Louis St. Louis 9.241%
Franklin Union 8.725%
Jefferson Hillsboro 7.225%
Lincoln Troy 8.975%
St. Charles St. Charles 8.40%
St. Louis Clayton 7.325%
Warren Warrenton 7.975%
Washington Potosi 8.225%
I wonder if this contributes to a lack of retail in the city. probably not, but i'm sure it can't help.
I think it is quite amusing, that many county residents b*tch about the fact that Metrolink goes nowhere, but they are not willing to chip in more to make it go where they want. So many complain about how it should go to Westport, Creve Coeur and Chesterfield. That would be great, but someone in the county has got to buck up!! The 'scared to cross the bridge' types in St. Charles have shot down Metrolink in the past. It is so much more perception, than reality, when it comes to changing the minds of people regarding Metrolink expansion. Metro needs to hire a better PR firm to improve their image and wake up the region to the potential of the Metrolink System. When I see how stubborn people outside of the city are, I wonder how Metrolink ever got off of the ground in the first place.
BTW, I'm not sure where you got those numbers, but the standard retail tax rate in the City (not counting special districts, etc.) is 8.241%.
The 9.241% JCity referenced was the "old" rate for sit-down restaurants. It's now 9.741%, after voters approved a sales tax hike in February to cover city pensions.
I think most of you folks are missing the really important point about the failure of this measure....You keep posting about new lines. The important impact of this failure is the reduction in service it will necessitate. I don't think there is a major metropolitan area anywhere in the world that suspends service at 8:00PM. Having a transit system which terminates service at 8:00PM will have a very negative impact on the perception of the viability/livability of this metropolitan area. And, that perception will be of this entire metropolitan area, not just the city of St. Louis.
BTW, I'm not sure where you got those numbers, but the standard retail tax rate in the City (not counting special districts, etc.) is 8.241%.
The 9.241% JCity referenced was the "old" rate for sit-down restaurants. It's now 9.741%, after voters approved a sales tax hike in February to cover city pensions.
ugh...this makes St. Louis city's sales tax for dining high! I'd like to know how the city breaks down its sales tax. Besides the state's 4.225% and 0.50% for city pensions, what else does their sales tax include?
San Francisco sales tax is 8.5%, Houston, TX is 8.75%, and NYC is 8.375%, and Chicago is 10.25%, STL is second before Chicago when it comes to high sales tax. I am guessing the high sales tax and the revenue it generates fills the pockets of greedy politicians like Francis Slay.
vollum wrote:I think most of you folks are missing the really important point about the failure of this measure....You keep posting about new lines. The important impact of this failure is the reduction in service it will necessitate. I don't think there is a major metropolitan area anywhere in the world that suspends service at 8:00PM. Having a transit system which terminates service at 8:00PM will have a very negative impact on the perception of the viability/livability of this metropolitan area. And, that perception will be of this entire metropolitan area, not just the city of St. Louis.
I can't agree with you more. I currently live in Skinker-DeBaliviere but will be moving at the end of the month. I'm choosing between two lofts downtown (one on Washington, one near Busch) but now I really have to think hard about that. The 8 p.m. cut-off means that I can't even go to a Blues game without walking back (which I don't want to do as a single gal). It means that I might take Metro to a concert at the Pageant, but I'd have to get a lift home. It means I'd have to hurry to get home from work before the 8 p.m. cut-off and do my shopping via Metro on the weekends. My decision has to come within a day or two, and I'm really, really torn on weather I should go downtown because I love it, or if it would be easier on me to go to Shaw or something for less money. Sigh.
10-intuition wrote:ugh...this makes St. Louis city's sales tax for dining high! I'd like to know how the city breaks down its sales tax. Besides the state's 4.225% and 0.50% for city pensions, what else does their sales tax include?
City residents. Whenever you can, we should all spend our money in the City. Don't go to the Target on Eager Road; go to the one on South Hampton. There are plenty of Schnucks in the City. Support local businesses. There are a few things you just can't get in the City right now (Trader Joe's), but spend your sales tax in the City whenever you can.
I'm quite sure this was in reference to a YouTube video that's been making the rounds for a few days. She says nothing close to that; it's more along the lines of she'll have to "worry less".
I have faith in the city voters that I think we could get it done on our own in the future.