urbanSTL

They really are serious now that it's going. Fence is going up and there is already an excavator and backhoe moving stuff around.

I am very pleased with this plaza. I think it's design is inspirational so the project will be successful.



How many times do you see projects built w/inspiration nowadays? The Gateway Mall is void of any, BallPark village is shaped by the Dollar, and even Busch Stadium is a fraud.



I can't wait to see this plaza when complete! We need more design shaped by an "idea". The Icarus thing is pretty cool if you ask me.

I need to turn the TV off when I'm home on Thursday evenings. I'm really starting to hate Donnybrook.



I cannot think of an idea for improving downtown Saint Louis that the Donnybrook panel hasn't crapped on, and now they're taking their shots at the new OPO plaza.



Wendy Wiese suggested half the money invested in the plaza could be spent to attract a grocery store downtown. Ahem- where's Wendy been hiding out in the last three years? Has she not heard of City Grocers?



Then, I was ready to throw my TV into the street as Ms. Wiese and Ray Hartmann expressed shock and indignation because Downtown Now dares to take measures that would prevent the homeless from congregating in the plaza. Both also expressed serious cluelessness when Charles Brennan of KMOX pointed out the problems associated with the homeless gathering in Lucas Park and other downtown public spaces.



I wonder how Wiese and Hartmann would feel if the homeless congregated in their suburban enclaves and became a nuisance as they have done in downtown. Better yet, if they're so appalled at the attitudes of people in downtown trying to address the problem, why don't they offer their homes as shelter for the homeless?



While I believe downtown has too much open space overall, this seems to be a well thought out space that should complement the OPO across the street as well as the Roberts Tower that will rise immediately to the east. I'm excited about this development and I'm glad construction has begun.



I realize there have been some missteps in the redevelopment of downtown, but will someone please wake me up on a Thursday evening when one of the Donnybrook d-bags (besides Brennan, who's usually supportive of DT redevelopment) has something positive to say about downtown?

ThreeOneFour wrote:I need to turn the TV off when I'm home on Thursday evenings. I'm really starting to hate Donnybrook.



I cannot think of an idea for improving downtown Saint Louis that the Donnybrook panel hasn't crapped on, and now they're taking their shots at the new OPO plaza.



Wendy Wiese suggested half the money invested in the plaza could be spent to attract a grocery store downtown. Ahem- where's Wendy been hiding out in the last three years? Has she not heard of City Grocers?



Then, I was ready to throw my TV into the street as Ms. Wiese and Ray Hartmann expressed shock and indignation because Downtown Now dares to take measures that would prevent the homeless from congregating in the plaza. Both also expressed serious cluelessness when Charles Brennan of KMOX pointed out the problems associated with the homeless gathering in Lucas Park and other downtown public spaces.



I wonder how Wiese and Hartmann would feel if the homeless congregated in their suburban enclaves and became a nuisance as they have done in downtown. Better yet, if they're so appalled at the attitudes of people in downtown trying to address the problem, why don't they offer their homes as shelter for the homeless?



While I believe downtown has too much open space overall, this seems to be a well thought out space that should complement the OPO across the street as well as the Roberts Tower that will rise immediately to the east. I'm excited about this development and I'm glad construction has begun.



I realize there have been some missteps in the redevelopment of downtown, but will someone please wake me up on a Thursday evening when one of the Donnybrook d-bags (besides Brennan, who's usually supportive of DT redevelopment) has something positive to say about downtown?

May I suggest never watching the show again? IMHO - those on the show are St. Louis 1992. There's a different generation that's rebuilding the city. People don't change their minds, they are simply replaced by people with new ideas.

I'm excited that progess seems to be in full stream.



What the heck is donnybrook... Never heard of it..



I think it's time for a full blown dt add campaign... We need to start tearing down all these ignorant suburban stereotypes.

Grover wrote:May I suggest never watching the show again? IMHO - those on the show are St. Louis 1992. There's a different generation that's rebuilding the city. People don't change their minds, they are simply replaced by people with new ideas.

Well stated, I completely agree with that assessment. I stopped watching a few years back - I generally found it to be infuriating. If they were to say, invite Jim Cloar on to discuss downtown issues, then I think their discussion would be a lot more productive.



Dump the Donnybrook d-bags!

yeah, Donnybrook last night p*ssed me off too. I still like watching it when Bill McClellan though.

And what's with their opening credits? Pics of Ray Hartmann with his 1991 mullet and when Martin Duggan was only 83 yrs. old? Time to update guys.

Grover wrote:May I suggest never watching the show again?

Yes, you may. It's a good suggestion. And I'd go one step further to suggest bpe shouldn't start watching Donnybrook.

IMHO - those on the show are St. Louis 1992. There's a different generation that's rebuilding the city. People don't change their minds, they are simply replaced by people with new ideas.

It might be generous to say they're stuck in the 1990s...they might actually be living further in the past. Thankfully, the new generation has shed the stereotypes that have had St. Louis shackled for years, and if these ancient curmudgeons cannot see the difference it is their loss.



At least I turned off those tools in time to see most of the Cardinals game.

We should put together a show on public access television. It's only a matter of time until the cast of D'brook moves to the roundtable in the sky and we're primed for public television!!!!

several months ago they aired a rerun of the first episode of Donnybrook from 1987, and other than Ray Hartmann looking like a wookie you could have sworn it was an episode they just filmed!

The fact that Wendy Weiss still thinks there is no downtown grocer makes me wonder if her fat a$$ has even been downtown in the past decade. She probably thinks Washington St. is still overrun with prostitutes.

We really need an icon with a smiley beating a dead horse with a stick.

Grover wrote:We should put together a show on public access television. It's only a matter of time until the cast of D'brook moves to the roundtable in the sky and we're primed for public television!!!!

No joke! That is a good idea.

Shimmy wrote:We really need an icon with a smiley beating a dead horse with a stick.

Glad to help!!

^What the f....?

You don't like anything dude.

Doug wrote:I dislike Donnybrook and this Plaza equally. There shouldn't be a plaza in the OPO. We have plenty of green space within a few blocks distance. The OPO should be density as it once was. The OPO will not be the center of the region with parks and plazas. Moreover, existing residents don't want green space otherwise they wouldn't be in the OPO! So, why are we providing them with something they don't want?



We should reclaim our existing spaces like Lucas Park and the Gateway Mall rather than simply create new plazas because the homeless overran the other ones. That is a defeatist attitude. This space could be used for another tower, or the Roberts Brothers could have built theirs abutting the street.



When I think of a movie I will go to a theater. When I want green space I will go to Tower Grove or Forest Park. Hell, maybe Lucas or the Gateway Mall some day. And when I want density I should be able to go to the OPO!



Some members of the generation rebuilding the City are also the same people who Demolished the Century. Don't forget that.



Edit: Wendy lives in Chesterfield and has talked before about how much she loves her giant strip mall. That is why she is out of touch.

Doug,



I disagree because I really think this is going to reestablish the OPO area as a great residential/retail section of the city. And a small plaza fits in nicely. As we've discussed before, the Gateway Mall is a wasteland. I would rather have a functional plaza/park like this because it will work for the immediate neighborhood.



And I think that we will see an effort to reclaim Lucas Park to make it more functional for the residents around it.



But we're all welcome to our opinion.

We know it's already popular with digital people.



I haven't had time to post anything about this, but it would basically be redundant to what JMedwick has already posted, so I will just second that.

Doug, where is that second tower being built? That's what we need, MW tower on the south of downtown and that one the north.



And to stay on topic, I reinerate what everybody has said.